Video: Should Division II Overhaul the Playoff System? - with Mike Racy

[Brandon]

Making a lot of assumptions...

I went back to the MOV-based SOS spreadsheet and tried to estimate expected win totals for the 13th-best non-champion against each team's schedule, then compared it to actual results. (Of course it doesn't work well for silos, but nothing does...)

Thanks. I was interested in the methodology.

[IUPNation]

You cannot simply objectively look at the results from the playoffs the last several years and not see a difference. There is being and advocate, and then there is being a leach. Every region shouldn't be guaranteed to be the final 2 of the final 8 teams playing. An effort should be made to get the best 8 teams, regardless of region, conference to be the last 8 teams playing.

"The Best 8 Teams Every Year"

Grand Valley
Ferris State
Pittsburg State
Northwest MO
West Florida
Valdosta State
Delta State
*Whoever Is Deemed Worthy To Bask In Their Presence

If you guys are already deciding who the best 8 teams are before the playoffs begin so you can engineer it so they all meet up...why are we bothering with the rest of the teams and wasting their time?

Just pick the same teams every year for the playoffs because of who they are and just have at it. I try to discuss properly and all I keep getting in return are replies that keep moving the goal line.

[IUPNation]

Thank you for your honesty, at least. Sadly, I suspect we will probably never come to any form of agreement on this.

Nope...they are all hung up on this FCS Format and that seems to be the only correct answer.

[IUPNation]

For me that's the hard part.. has to be some consideration for travel obviously, and pairings the first couple rounds would not be as simple as straight up seeds, just as they aren't in FCS. In FCS, teams bid for the right to host games. It's not the only consideration, as supposedly North Dakota out bid a number of teams that hosted this year and still didn't get a home game, but the brackets certainly aren't completely based on seed. Imagine throwing that complexity into this conversation!!

Oh so...you mean home games are given out on who has more money and not merit in the perfect FCS format?

[KleShreen]

"The Best 8 Teams Every Year"

Grand Valley
Ferris State
Pittsburg State
Northwest MO
West Florida
Valdosta State
Delta State
*Whoever Is Deemed Worthy To Bask In Their Presence

If you guys are already deciding who the best 8 teams are before the playoffs begin so you can engineer it so they all meet up...why are we bothering with the rest of the teams and wasting their time?

Just pick the same teams every year for the playoffs because of who they are and just have at it.

Valdosta went 5-6 this year what are you talking about lol.

Most of those teams happen to be good because they....GASP.....have proven their worth in the playoffs.

In 2003, GVSU, the reigning national champion, were 10-1. Yet they had to go on the road for every game in the playoffs. Went to Bentley and won 65-36, went to Saginaw and won 10-3, went to Kingsville and won 31-3, then beat North Dakota in the title. It's almost like they were seeded based on their merit of going 10-1, instead of their history of being the reigning national champion. And then they went out and beat all their opponents on the road in the playoffs. Like just stop your whole thing of "SR1 and PSAC should get home playoff games because we never get them!" and just win the games during the season to be worthy, instead of just saying you deserve home playoff games just because.

[Predatory Primates]

For me that's the hard part.. has to be some consideration for travel obviously, and pairings the first couple rounds would not be as simple as straight up seeds, just as they aren't in FCS. In FCS, teams bid for the right to host games. It's not the only consideration, as supposedly North Dakota out bid a number of teams that hosted this year and still didn't get a home game, but the brackets certainly aren't completely based on seed. Imagine throwing that complexity into this conversation!!

When D2 did bids, it seems like there was a minimum bid. If you met that, it didn't matter if someone else bid more. Not sure how fcs does it though.

[IUPNation]

Valdosta went 5-6 this year what are you talking about lol.

Most of those teams happen to be good because they....GASP.....have proven their worth in the playoffs.

In 2003, GVSU, the reigning national champion, were 10-1. Yet they had to go on the road for every game in the playoffs. Went to Bentley and won 65-36, went to Saginaw and won 10-3, went to Kingsville and won 31-3, then beat North Dakota in the title. It's almost like they were seeded based on their merit of going 10-1, instead of their history of being the reigning national champion. And then they went out and beat all their opponents on the road in the playoffs. Like just stop your whole thing of "SR1 and PSAC should get home playoff games because we never get them!" and just win the games during the season to be worthy, instead of just saying you deserve home playoff games just because.

They were the best 5-6 team in the country who would destroy everyone in Region 1 right?

I have said several times that what happened that year was a total joke.

What has Grand Valley proven recently? They haven't won a Semi Final since 2009. The two they have been in since they lost both and one was to Shepherd.

Why should GV get any benefit of the doubt now over anyone else you deem "sucks"

You guys act like Cowturd fans when they scream "Five Rings" when the current team implodes yet again....as if the current players had anything to do with the 51, 45, 30, 29 , and 27 year old rings won back in the old days.

Nobody on the current GV team had been successful like it was 16, 17, 19 and 20 years ago. The players on those teams are now in their late 30's and early 40's.

So why should you get home games now based on the distant past when your recent past isn't any better than the teams you mock?

[IUPNation]

When D2 did bids, it seems like there was a minimum bid. If you met that, it didn't matter if someone else bid more. Not sure how fcs does it though.

When D2 did bids, if a Gulf South team was involved, the Gulf South Team got the home game no matter what. At least that was our experience...3 straight times.

[KleShreen]

They were the best 5-6 team in the country who would destroy everyone in Region 1 right?

I have said several times that what happened that year was a total joke.

What has Grand Valley proven recently? They haven't won a Semi Final since 2009. The two they have been in since they lost both and one was to Shepherd.

Why should GV get any benefit of the doubt now over anyone else you deem "sucks"

You guys act like Cowturd fans when they scream "Five Rings" when the current team implodes yet again....as if the current players had anything to do with the 51, 45, 30, 29 , and 27 year old rings won back in the old days.

Nobody on the current GV team had been successful like it was 16, 17, 19 and 20 years ago. The players on those teams are now in their late 30's and early 40's.

So why should you get home games now based on the distant past when your recent past isn't any better than the teams you mock?

Literally who is saying this? The home semifinal games go to the teams with the combination of better record and better opponents. That's why GV had to go to Shepherd. Because Shepherd had a better resume. I don't understand why this is so difficult for you to understand. Schedule better teams, and win all your games, then you get to host the semifinals. But since none of your teams can win all their games, and none of your teams face good non-conference competition, you don't host.

[Runnin' Cat]

Literally who is saying this? The home semifinal games go to the teams with the combination of better record and better opponents. That's why GV had to go to Shepherd. Because Shepherd had a better resume. I don't understand why this is so difficult for you to understand. Schedule better teams, and win all your games, then you get to host the semifinals. But since none of your teams can win all their games, and none of your teams face good non-conference competition, you don't host.

He gets off on this. He loves making nonsensical arguments and logical fallacies and watching everyone try to "prove him wrong". He does this in the OT..

His next tact is to use the "Translation" post.

[IUPNation]

Literally who is saying this? The home semifinal games go to the teams with the combination of better record and better opponents. That's why GV had to go to Shepherd. Because Shepherd had a better resume. I don't understand why this is so difficult for you to understand. Schedule better teams, and win all your games, then you get to host the semifinals. But since none of your teams can win all their games, and none of your teams face good non-conference competition, you don't host.

The goal line has been moved again. Now it's based on the season resume....which is really should be.. but that is not what has been said over the course of this thread. It is a season's resume or reputation based on past results?

[IUPNation]

He gets off on this. He loves making nonsensical arguments and logical fallacies and watching everyone try to "prove him wrong". He does this in the OT..

His next tact is to use the "Translation" post.

I'm just challenging the majority. It's what I do.

[GorillaTeacher]

The goal line has been moved again. Now it's based on the season resume....which is really should be.. but that is not what has been said over the course of this thread. It is a season's resume or reputation based on past results?

Just because your reading comprehension is poor doesn’t mean the goal posts have been moved.

it’s been clearly said that conference strength and recent performance guides the process along with that season’s resume.

How else could you judge which teams with identical records but have no common opponents should be distinguished between?

Conferences are not equal, 10-1 in the glvc is not the same as 10-1 in the MIAA at this time. Saying otherwise is asinine.

[IUPNation]

Just because your reading comprehension is poor doesn’t mean the goal posts have been moved.

it’s been clearly said that conference strength and recent performance guides the process along with that season’s resume.

How else could you judge which teams with identical records but have no common opponents should be distinguished between?

Conferences are not equal, 10-1 in the glvc is not the same as 10-1 in the MIAA at this time. Saying otherwise is asinine.

What do you consider a recent performance? How many years are you going back?

[GorillaTeacher]

How long does Alabama’s dominance run? Ohio state? Some programs have the tradition that goes back a long time. Some conferences have only been relevant a few years, others go back a couple decades. The miaa was kind of terrible until early 90s.

culture and tradition of excellence breed culture and excellence. Until it doesn’t, like UCO. That’s how football works from high school up to the pros. No one bats an eye when an SEC team gets a big bowl game. No one complains when the patriots or packers or Steelers make the playoffs 18/20 years. Why would the programs in D2 level be regarded any different?

this is coming from a guy that will tell you Pitt has largely been irrelevant for the last 20 years, poor for the last 10, save for a season here or there.