OT: D1

[Fightingscot82]

How many of them were won before the collapse of steel that sent those towns down the drain?

Several. In Aliquippa and Clairton, high school football is about all they've got going for them. Everyone else is still struggling. Thomas Jefferson is more suburban and middle class so they're alright.

Upper St. Clair had quite a run in the 80s and 90s, but they're the South Hills suburbs version of North Allegheny: huge, upper middle class, and coincidentally also straddles US 19.

[IUPNation]

Because it’s the full context of the conversation relative to who they are playing. We aren’t talking about kids going to a school in an effort to get out of a rough area of Philly. We are talking about kids from all corners of the US going to a school for the sole purpose of playing football in the same way that occurs with IMG Academy. If you can’t see the difference in that compared to Erie Cathedral Prep, then I just don’t know what else anyone can tell you to objectively have a conversation on the topic.

And to be clear, if you read up and follow college football recruiting, you’ll see where plenty of kids for that school have come from. It’s not neighboring areas, or states, for that matter.

I’m trying to find a roster that shows their home towns. Yes they have kids from Camden County NJ but that’s closer to St Joes than most towns in the PA suburbs.

Where are you finding the information? The two players in the Eagles who played for Prep are from
Philadelphia.

[IUP24]

Why does it matter where the students are from?

I looked at Prep's website and it does not show where each student is from....

They do play those schools and that is where they can be cut out from the PIAA playoffs.

They do not play enough teams in the PIAA to warrant a playoff invitation.

Because it’s the full context of the conversation relative to who they are playing. We aren’t talking about kids going to a school in an effort to get out of a rough area of Philly. We are talking about kids from all corners of the US going to a school for the sole purpose of playing football in the same way that occurs with IMG Academy. If you can’t see the difference in that compared to Erie Cathedral Prep, then I just don’t know what else anyone can tell you to objectively have a conversation on the topic.

And to be clear, if you read up and follow college football recruiting, you’ll see where plenty of kids for that school have come from. It’s not neighboring areas, or states, for that matter.

[IUPNation]

Buddy... I'm 30 years old and I would venture to guess that Clairton, Aliquippa, and Jeannette won half of those championships in my lifetime. You're absolutely grasping at straws here to salvage an argument that you are basically having with yourself. TJ is a very nice middle-class suburb in the South Hills, but again, they didn't become a dominant football power until about 2000. Most of those titles are very, very recent. Upper Saint Clair has always been a nice area with strong athletic programs.

The only town on that list who has been decimated by the fall of the steel industry AND has seen their football suffer is Monessen. They only get 20 kids to even come out to play football. But Monessen seems to still always have a very, very strong basketball team.

The point was they weren't always poor towns. The JL mill was open in Aliquippa through 1984.

I went to a Catholic School that could not beat the local public school at all. Their head coach recruited every good kid in the CYO leagues to play at Norristown and not Kenrick. We had a 33 game losing streak...and we never ever beat Norristown in foosball. So I call bullschit why one school goes above and beyond and somehow every Catholic School should not be allowed to compete with the publics for state titles.

If the PIAA excluded St Joe's for playing all those out of PA schools and only 4 PIAA member teams...I would support that. There has to be requirements met for a playoff bid.

[IUPNation]

The evolution of this conversation is interesting...

People are outspoken about St. Joe's because of national recruiting. They have players on their roster from places like Texas and Florida. I don't even necessarily care about places like Bishop McDevitt or Central Catholic. Do those schools impact communities in surrounding areas? Yeah, they sure do. But you are continuing over and over and over again to simply not recognize that St. Joe's is pulling kids from all over the country to play football. You can talk about transfers to other schools, or the recruiting at other private schools, etc. St. Joe's should be playing the likes of IMG Academy, Don Bosco Prep, etc. Why are you continuing to fight this? You are the only person who thinks this is just a bunch of people from the Pittsburgh area complaining that a Philly school is winning the PIAA title.

Most people don't even care about that.

Why does it matter where the students are from?

I looked at Prep's website and it does not show where each student is from....

They do play those schools and that is where they can be cut out from the PIAA playoffs.

They do not play enough teams in the PIAA to warrant a playoff invitation.

[IUP24]

How many of them were won before the collapse of steel that sent those towns down the drain?

Buddy... I'm 30 years old and I would venture to guess that Clairton, Aliquippa, and Jeannette won half of those championships in my lifetime. You're absolutely grasping at straws here to salvage an argument that you are basically having with yourself. TJ is a very nice middle-class suburb in the South Hills, but again, they didn't become a dominant football power until about 2000. Most of those titles are very, very recent. Upper Saint Clair has always been a nice area with strong athletic programs.

The only town on that list who has been decimated by the fall of the steel industry AND has seen their football suffer is Monessen. They only get 20 kids to even come out to play football. But Monessen seems to still always have a very, very strong basketball team.

[IUP24]

Then why is everyone mad about St Joe’s? Ok North Allegheny are Kings of The Yinzerlands.

Everyone should be happy.

The evolution of this conversation is interesting...

People are outspoken about St. Joe's because of national recruiting. They have players on their roster from places like Texas and Florida. I don't even necessarily care about places like Bishop McDevitt or Central Catholic. Do those schools impact communities in surrounding areas? Yeah, they sure do. But you are continuing over and over and over again to simply not recognize that St. Joe's is pulling kids from all over the country to play football. You can talk about transfers to other schools, or the recruiting at other private schools, etc. St. Joe's should be playing the likes of IMG Academy, Don Bosco Prep, etc. Why are you continuing to fight this? You are the only person who thinks this is just a bunch of people from the Pittsburgh area complaining that a Philly school is winning the PIAA title.

Most people don't even care about that.

[IUPNation]

Aliquippa has the most WPIAL titles with 38. Surprisingly, its mostly impoverished and working class communities.

• 38: Aliquippa
• 37: Monessen
• 30: Thomas Jefferson
• 26: Clairton
• 26: Jeannette
• 26: Upper St. Clair

How many of them were won before the collapse of steel that sent those towns down the drain?

[IUP24]

Sounds like SR1 playoff logic.

Apples and oranges.

Using a local example for many in Indiana County... I was in college when Indiana High School won the WPIAL basketball championship. I went to multiple games and enjoyed following their team/season. That was an incredible run. When people look back, they'll remember they won the WPIAL. Not that they lost to New Castle in the 1st or 2nd round of the PIAA playoffs.

Overall point is that people in Western PA tend identify more with the success of their community sports teams locally, not necessarily what happens when they get outside of the WPIAL. You can go on a run and win 4-5 games in the playoffs beating other local teams and rival communities. That tends to matter to people. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. It's just the way it seems to always be with those affiliated with the WPIAL.

[Fightingscot82]

Then why is everyone mad about St Joe’s? Ok North Allegheny are Kings of The Yinzerlands.

Everyone should be happy.

Aliquippa has the most WPIAL titles with 38. Surprisingly, its mostly impoverished and working class communities.

• 38: Aliquippa
• 37: Monessen
• 30: Thomas Jefferson
• 26: Clairton
• 26: Jeannette
• 26: Upper St. Clair

[IUPNation]

Right. That's the unique component to the structure of the WPIAL - especially under the previous set up- given how many teams were in the district and how the number of schools in each classification were nearly balanced perfectly. People can argue that as arrogance or whether it's right or wrong to view the "local playoffs" as more important than winning a state title, etc. There's just much more individuality in terms of community affiliation with Western PA and the local high school than elsewhere in the state. And that's often seen in how people view the WPIAL playoffs.

I don't think many people care how any school does in the PIAA playoffs from the WPIAL, which is where this argument started. I stand by that the people upset were disappointed at how the new structure impacted the WPIAL internally.

Then why is everyone mad about St Joe’s? Ok North Allegheny are Kings of The Yinzerlands.

Everyone should be happy.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Right. That's the unique component to the structure of the WPIAL - especially under the previous set up- given how many teams were in the district and how the number of schools in each classification were nearly balanced perfectly. People can argue that as arrogance or whether it's right or wrong to view the "local playoffs" as more important than winning a state title, etc. There's just much more individuality in terms of community affiliation with Western PA and the local high school than elsewhere in the state. And that's often seen in how people view the WPIAL playoffs.

I don't think many people care how any school does in the PIAA playoffs from the WPIAL, which is where this argument started. I stand by that the people upset were disappointed at how the new structure impacted the WPIAL internally.

Sounds like SR1 playoff logic.

[IUP24]

Yep. And those small, rural high schools view winning the conference as success - winning the district is icing on the cake and not viewed as significantly better. If you're Erie Cathedral Prep or Westinghouse, winning your conference simply puts you in the PIAA playoffs.

Right. That's the unique component to the structure of the WPIAL - especially under the previous set up- given how many teams were in the district and how the number of schools in each classification were nearly balanced perfectly. People can argue that as arrogance or whether it's right or wrong to view the "local playoffs" as more important than winning a state title, etc. There's just much more individuality in terms of community affiliation with Western PA and the local high school than elsewhere in the state. And that's often seen in how people view the WPIAL playoffs.

I don't think many people care how any school does in the PIAA playoffs from the WPIAL, which is where this argument started. I stand by that the people upset were disappointed at how the new structure impacted the WPIAL internally.

[Fightingscot82]

Truthfully, I don't care how any of the WPIAL teams perform in the playoffs. I graduated high school 12 years ago; I have no allegiance in that sense. But I'll continue with the statement that many in the WPIAL didn't like the 6 classification system because of how it impacted their product internally and the "mystique" of their traditional rivalries, conference scheduling at all four levels, and postseason format (playing every classification's championship game on Black Friday - forever - at either Three Rivers Stadium or Heinz Field). I understand the nuances and creative ways to get around that, but on the surface, that's what people cared about - and still do.

Kids in other parts of the state put a ton of stock into the motivational mantra of, "we have a real shot at state this year." The kids and the communities around Pittsburgh seem to care almost exclusively about the allure of winning the WPIAL. I'm not saying that's right or wrong. That's just the way it is and always has been.

Yep. And those small, rural high schools view winning the conference as success - winning the district is icing on the cake and not viewed as significantly better. If you're Erie Cathedral Prep or Westinghouse, winning your conference simply puts you in the PIAA playoffs.

[IUP24]

All the WPIAL has to do is have a weighted power point system in which the regional rivalries in, say, 5A/6A can be maintained with weighed strength points in order to determine state playoff qualification, which is a common practice in other states (I can't speak to other PIAA districts, however). The WPIAL's long standing arrogance ranks right up there with Art Rooney II's (mis-)management of the Steelers over the past couple of seasons, the latter of which is reflected in how poorly the Steelers have been playing on the field. The WPIAL either adapt to the times or suffer long-term misery at the PIAA playoff level.

Truthfully, I don't care how any of the WPIAL teams perform in the playoffs. I graduated high school 12 years ago; I have no allegiance in that sense. But I'll continue with the statement that many in the WPIAL didn't like the 6 classification system because of how it impacted their product internally and the "mystique" of their traditional rivalries, conference scheduling at all four levels, and postseason format (playing every classification's championship game on Black Friday - forever - at either Three Rivers Stadium or Heinz Field). I understand the nuances and creative ways to get around that, but on the surface, that's what people cared about - and still do.

Kids in other parts of the state put a ton of stock into the motivational mantra of, "we have a real shot at state this year." The kids and the communities around Pittsburgh seem to care almost exclusively about the allure of winning the WPIAL. I'm not saying that's right or wrong. That's just the way it is and always has been.