OT: D1

[IUP24]

ESPN has ownership stakes in many of the lower tier bowls that they proliferated. But like you said, with attendance and TV viewership way down, they're getting their clocks cleaned financially.

I'm with you on a 16 team playoff. Many scoff, but as soon as the casual and neutral fans witness some upsets of P5 teams, people will love it. Everyone's favorite part of March Madness is the annual Cinderella team. The current system (much like the BCS) is designed to keep G5 upstarts out of a true Cinderella season. It’s virtually impossible for an undefeated G5 team capable of beating an SEC team to win a championship. The G5 conferences should file a class action suit against the NCAA and CFP. But they won't.

I would argue that under the BCS system, those teams had a better chance to break the glass ceiling and reach that level or stage. Keep in mind that the culture was much different pertaining to bowls then. Playing in the Orange Bowl wasn’t an unjust punishment. So Boise State playing in the Fiesta Bowl was a big, big deal at the time. And we rooted for those teams. We don’t root for those team anymore - not in the same way at least. Largely because the media doesn’t benefit from those schools with small followings, so a narrative gets shoved down our throats that those teams are so much lesser than everyone else.

UCF was a great example. Perhaps their outspoken fanbase contributed, but people rooted for UCF every week for a 2 year stretch or so. In the BCS era we would have loved UCF.

[Fightingscot82]

They should have gone to a 16 team playoff or something like FCS immediately. Get rid of the bowls. Money rules I get it, but the bowls were and are completely meaningless once a playoff started. Perhaps keep some bowls similar to what HBCU's do, but beyond that it's a dumb exhibition.

80% of all these bowls, people don't attend and I find it hard to believe that it really is bringing in any extra business into the area. It's just TV revenue I guess, but isn't viewership of these bowls like WAY down as well? How do they warrant the cost or have TV deals continue to shell out for it?

ESPN has ownership stakes in many of the lower tier bowls that they proliferated. But like you said, with attendance and TV viewership way down, they're getting their clocks cleaned financially.

I'm with you on a 16 team playoff. Many scoff, but as soon as the casual and neutral fans witness some upsets of P5 teams, people will love it. Everyone's favorite part of March Madness is the annual Cinderella team. The current system (much like the BCS) is designed to keep G5 upstarts out of a true Cinderella season. Its virtually impossible for an undefeated G5 team capable of beating an SEC team to win a championship. The G5 conferences should file a class action suit against the NCAA and CFP. But they won't.

[IUPNation]

The bowls are a relic. Teams that go 6-6 get in them.

I opted out of them a long time ago.

[Ram040506]

I think we are both agreeing while saying the same thing differently. I'm simply saying that this is the reality we created. Everyone squawked about a playoff for years. Now there is one and it's made everything less meaningless. We used to spend all season projecting who would get selected for NY6 and Tier 1 bowl games. When's the last time anyone has even talked about a Tier 1 bowl game?

As I've said before, I liked it better the way it existed previously. I never wanted or advocated for the Playoff personally.

They should have gone to a 16 team playoff or something like FCS immediately. Get rid of the bowls. Money rules I get it, but the bowls were and are completely meaningless once a playoff started. Perhaps keep some bowls similar to what HBCU's do, but beyond that it's a dumb exhibition.

80% of all these bowls, people don't attend and I find it hard to believe that it really is bringing in any extra business into the area. It's just TV revenue I guess, but isn't viewership of these bowls like WAY down as well? How do they warrant the cost or have TV deals continue to shell out for it?

[IUP24]

You can't compare them to now. Different periods.

Now the players (P5) could mostly care less about bowl games. It's become the Final Four or mass opt-outs and transfer season.

It's probably cool for the dudes who rode pine all year and all the sudden are starters. But, that seems to be about it.

I used to love the bowls. Now, I'd watch bowling or fishing ahead of the Orange Bowl.

I think we are both agreeing while saying the same thing differently. I'm simply saying that this is the reality we created. Everyone squawked about a playoff for years. Now there is one and it's made everything less meaningless. We used to spend all season projecting who would get selected for NY6 and Tier 1 bowl games. When's the last time anyone has even talked about a Tier 1 bowl game?

As I've said before, I liked it better the way it existed previously. I never wanted or advocated for the Playoff personally.

[Fightingscot82]

I wonder if there was a way to instead of straight up paying players, maybe put money in a trust available to them 6 months after leaving their institution based on revenue generated - similar to how March Madness revenue is divided. There could be some sort of financial incentive for them to play through the playoffs that supplements the potential NFL Draft money (or could financially sustain them through the spring & summer until they get that first camp check).

[IUPbigINDIANS]

It's a farce because this is what we created and the media wanted. Everybody wanted a playoff, now we complain that the players opt out and the bowl games stink. You can't have it both ways.

There are a ton of bowl games that have historical ties and traditional meaning that nobody cares about anymore. Do the bowl games matter less for those teams, or have we just been conditioned to believe that if you aren't one of the chosen few, where you play in the bowl season is simply irrelevant? I tend to think it's the latter. Going to certain bowl games should still be viewed as exciting opportunities.

Again, FSU and UGA are "butthurt" from missing the playoff, but under the BCS system, neither would've played for the title anyways. Their position in the Orange Bowl would've been a GREAT game. A great opportunity to make a statement to show that they were actually the best team, not Michigan or Washington.

You can't compare them to now. Different periods.

Now the players (P5) could mostly care less about bowl games. It's become the Final Four or mass opt-outs and transfer season.

It's probably cool for the dudes who rode pine all year and all the sudden are starters. But, that seems to be about it.

I used to love the bowls. Now, I'd watch bowling or fishing ahead of the Orange Bowl.

[IUP24]

If a team was ever going to boycott, this is the time. End of the day, the brass will want that check.

Wouldn't be unprecedented. A great team once DID boycott their bowl game because they felt slighted. I know a guy who started on the offensive line on this team. He's shared this story repeatedly. So FSU or UGA could boycott because they feel they are deserving of a better situation, but they wouldn't be the first to do so. Different era, but a real story.

https://triblive.com/sports/classroo...ver-bowl-snub/

[IUP24]

Florida State vs Georgia is the perfect example. I get they are both butt-hurt, but the game now is meaningless to the average viewer. Both teams have a ton of starters opting out, etc. That said, I fully recognize both teams are loaded with NFL Draft prospects. I don't blame them at all for choosing not to be pimped out one last time for a meaningless game.

I suppose if you're Dawgs and Seminoles fans you'll probably still watch. But, for Joe Average, it's a farce. The ratings for non-playoff bowl games the past several yeras are awful (like average MLB game awful).

It's a farce because this is what we created and the media wanted. Everybody wanted a playoff, now we complain that the players opt out and the bowl games stink. You can't have it both ways.

There are a ton of bowl games that have historical ties and traditional meaning that nobody cares about anymore. Do the bowl games matter less for those teams, or have we just been conditioned to believe that if you aren't one of the chosen few, where you play in the bowl season is simply irrelevant? I tend to think it's the latter. Going to certain bowl games should still be viewed as exciting opportunities.

Again, FSU and UGA are "butthurt" from missing the playoff, but under the BCS system, neither would've played for the title anyways. Their position in the Orange Bowl would've been a GREAT game. A great opportunity to make a statement to show that they were actually the best team, not Michigan or Washington.

[iupgroundhog]

Valid points. In this specific context, though, I have no issues with them opting out. If you have Round 1 or Round 2 money waiting, a meaningless bowl game isn't worth the risk. If they are already projected in the first two rounds, there's nothing to really gain - and a ton to possibly lose.

Many of these guys wouldn't even graduate. Blow a knee now and the draft is gone. If you fall several rounds start subtracting zeros.

Do they 'owe' it to the school to not opt-out and play? That's debatable to many.


The Florida State issue is viewed by them to be a major injustice. It would make a huge statement to not play but that won't happen. They'll trot out an intramural team if it means getting that Orange Bowl check.

I knew you would take that angle. Not that I disagree with the "specific context" but I am trying to view it all with a wide-angle lens.

The specific context is just a product of a much bigger context. That's what I am referring to.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Makes me want to wax philosophical on this. When we were growing up and were introduced to sports, whether we participated in them or watched them and followed and rooted for teams and players, etc., it was very different. Through sports, and at that time it was principally males, we learned the concepts of teamwork, personal responsibility, how to win and how to lose, commitment to something beyond yourself, and a whole range of factors that were directly transferable to life like working in an organization, family responsibilities, community life, and participation and, even in generations past, being in (world) wars.

Those aspects, in my view, have gradually evaporated from competitive sports. And I think it affects (or reflects) our society broadly.

The emphasis on individualism (and I value individualism in a reasonable context) as superseding a broader sense of values, whether we are talking about the transfer portal, NIL's, opting out of bowl games, or other developments, can, in my opinion, be viewed as part of the breakdown of American society. I mean, when has it been acceptable for Americans to "opt-out" of anything?

Valid points. In this specific context, though, I have no issues with them opting out. If you have Round 1 or Round 2 money waiting, a meaningless bowl game isn't worth the risk. If they are already projected in the first two rounds, there's nothing to really gain - and a ton to possibly lose.

Many of these guys wouldn't even graduate. Blow a knee now and the draft is gone. If you fall several rounds start subtracting zeros.

Do they 'owe' it to the school to not opt-out and play? That's debatable to many.


The Florida State issue is viewed by them to be a major injustice. It would make a huge statement to not play but that won't happen. They'll trot out an intramural team if it means getting that Orange Bowl check.

[iupgroundhog]

Florida State vs Georgia is the perfect example. I get they are both butt-hurt, but the game now is meaningless to the average viewer. Both teams have a ton of starters opting out, etc. That said, I fully recognize both teams are loaded with NFL Draft prospects. I don't blame them at all for choosing not to be pimped out one last time for a meaningless game.

I suppose if you're Dawgs and Seminoles fans you'll probably still watch. But, for Joe Average, it's a farce. The ratings for non-playoff bowl games the past several yeras are awful (like average MLB game awful).

Makes me want to wax philosophical on this. When we were growing up and were introduced to sports, whether we participated in them or watched them and followed and rooted for teams and players, etc., it was very different. Through sports, and at that time it was principally males, we learned the concepts of teamwork, personal responsibility, how to win and how to lose, commitment to something beyond yourself, and a whole range of factors that were directly transferable to life like working in an organization, family responsibilities, community life, and participation and, even in generations past, being in (world) wars.

Those aspects, in my view, have gradually evaporated from competitive sports. And I think it affects (or reflects) our society broadly.

The emphasis on individualism (and I value individualism in a reasonable context) as superseding a broader sense of values, whether we are talking about the transfer portal, NIL's, opting out of bowl games, or other developments, can, in my opinion, be viewed as part of the breakdown of American society. I mean, when has it been acceptable for Americans to "opt-out" of anything?

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I was reading that most of the fan base and alumni wants FSU to come out warm up and then walkout of the stadium. In response to being left out of the playoff, honestly I'd think that was hilarious and would be all for it.

If a team was ever going to boycott, this is the time. End of the day, the brass will want that check.

[Ram040506]

Florida State vs Georgia is the perfect example. I get they are both butt-hurt, but the game now is meaningless to the average viewer. Both teams have a ton of starters opting out, etc. That said, I fully recognize both teams are loaded with NFL Draft prospects. I don't blame them at all for choosing not to be pimped out one last time for a meaningless game.

I suppose if you're Dawgs and Seminoles fans you'll probably still watch. But, for Joe Average, it's a farce. The ratings for non-playoff bowl games the past several yeras are awful (like average MLB game awful).

I was reading that most of the fan base and alumni wants FSU to come out warm up and then walkout of the stadium. In response to being left out of the playoff, honestly I'd think that was hilarious and would be all for it.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I used to love New Year's day college football bowl games as well. I stopped doing the bowl pick em's as soon as the playoffs started about 10 years ago, it immediately became unimportant and lost all its luster. College football regular season is still pretty good, but now I really only look forward to March Madness as a sporting event.

Florida State vs Georgia is the perfect example. I get they are both butt-hurt, but the game now is meaningless to the average viewer. Both teams have a ton of starters opting out, etc. That said, I fully recognize both teams are loaded with NFL Draft prospects. I don't blame them at all for choosing not to be pimped out one last time for a meaningless game.

I suppose if you're Dawgs and Seminoles fans you'll probably still watch. But, for Joe Average, it's a farce. The ratings for non-playoff bowl games the past several yeras are awful (like average MLB game awful).