IUP Football 2021

[IUP24]

How does one get cleared of no wrong-doing after just being in a car that did a drive-by shooting -- regardless of who pulled the trigger?

This is an incredibly 'hindsight is 20-20' case.


"Under PA law, police officers are justified in using force when they believe it is necessary to prevent death or serious injury to themselves or others, or if they believe it necessary to prevent a suspect's escape from arrest. That suspect, the law continues, must have committed or attempted to commit a forcible felony and pose a danger to human life."

Rosfeld was found not guilty on all charges. And, his jury did have African Americans on it. In fact, they deliberated less than 4 hours.

I still see it as -- end of the day -- a decision was made to commit a crime (drive-by). That decision had consequences. Not saying Rosfeld was right. Not saying he was wrong. But, if you do the crime, ... sometimes you pay the bill. It's easy to look back at that in slow motion. Being in that moment is a whole different thing.

Police officers have an incredibly difficult job. I respect the heck out of those men and women considering what they go through. And they aren't paid much for it either.

This discussion is mostly about choices, as you say. At some point, people just need to be better people. The best way to not have interactions with the police is to not break the law. Bottom line. Even on the road. Drive the speed limit. Stop for a second at stop signs. Slow down at yellow lights instead of trying to beat the red. The list goes on. Don't want to be involved in a drive by shooting and have potential negative consequences? Simple, don't get in that car. Don't want to get wrapped up in people dealing drugs? Simple, get different friends. You make your own choices regarding what you do and who you associate with. That in itself is life or death for some people. And not at the hands of cops either.

Society teaches children to give authority the middle finger. You see that with player/coaching interactions in sports at all levels. You see and experience that in schools. And you certainly see and experience that in the streets as it pertains to police officers. As a society, when the heck did we forget about respecting authority, people, and the law?

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I believe police are no less likely to have bad people among their ranks than any other profession. HOWEVER, I do believe the profession attracts bad people more than some others. Two college fraternity brothers were studying criminal justice - both were (and still are) racist. One ended up a police officer outside of Philly and was actually fired for posting racist political posts on Facebook. The other works in state correction facility and also posts racist political things online. My cousin's husband is in law enforcement. He used to say coded racist things, like referring to black people as "Canadians". He's a good person, a good father, and a good officer - but I believe he grew up with some racist beliefs that had to be worked out. I do believe policing attracts people who want to bully. The "do as I say or else" attitude is what is causing a lot of the problems with police. I was once stopped on suspicion of DUI (I was trying to plug in my phone) and I refused to perform field sobriety tests. I was in a hurry, knew I had nothing to drink in the last 12 hours (it was not even 9am) and its also my right to refuse those. The officer instantly got upset and told me I'm "going to regret saying that" and also falsely told me my license would be suspended for 12 months if I didn't consent. Any officer (and someone with Google) can learn that refusal of a breathylizer is what gets your license suspended, not refusal to perform field sobriety. He took 10 minutes to set up his PBT and I blew .000. He was upset and asked for permission to search my car for anything illegal. Again, I refused because I have that right and he didn't have probable cause. He got a call on his radio that called him away, but he parted by telling me I was a "smart ass" and "too smart for my own good." Actually, I know how the law works. I'm also lucky that I'm white and well educated. That stop could have gone downhill if I didn't respond respectfully, if I had a criminal record, or if my demographics made him assume I was "up to no good."

Going back to Antwon Rose, the District Attorney cleared him of any wrongdoing. Its right here: https://www.post-gazette.com/news/cr...s/201806270138

Shooting offensively is a crime. Even if you're a police officer. They're not above the law. Its the same as those idiots in Georgia who went after the jogger. Or George Zimmerman going after Trayvon Martin. That's what people are tired of - assuming the worst of a brown skinned person and using excessive force, usually as an offensive move. My unqualified opinion is that its cyclical - when the police stop using unnecessary force at a disproportionate rate with black people, we'll see black people start to trust the police more, resist less, and flee less. One can't happen without the other. Its hard to shape cultural behavior - much easier to change professional training.

How does one get cleared of no wrong-doing after just being in a car that did a drive-by shooting -- regardless of who pulled the trigger?

This is an incredibly 'hindsight is 20-20' case.


"Under PA law, police officers are justified in using force when they believe it is necessary to prevent death or serious injury to themselves or others, or if they believe it necessary to prevent a suspect's escape from arrest. That suspect, the law continues, must have committed or attempted to commit a forcible felony and pose a danger to human life."

Rosfeld was found not guilty on all charges. And, his jury did have African Americans on it. In fact, they deliberated less than 4 hours.

I still see it as -- end of the day -- a decision was made to commit a crime (drive-by). That decision had consequences. Not saying Rosfeld was right. Not saying he was wrong. But, if you do the crime, ... sometimes you pay the bill. It's easy to look back at that in slow motion. Being in that moment is a whole different thing.

[boatcapt]

I believe police are no less likely to have bad people among their ranks than any other profession. HOWEVER, I do believe the profession attracts bad people more than some others. Two college fraternity brothers were studying criminal justice - both were (and still are) racist. One ended up a police officer outside of Philly and was actually fired for posting racist political posts on Facebook. The other works in state correction facility and also posts racist political things online. My cousin's husband is in law enforcement. He used to say coded racist things, like referring to black people as "Canadians". He's a good person, a good father, and a good officer - but I believe he grew up with some racist beliefs that had to be worked out. I do believe policing attracts people who want to bully. The "do as I say or else" attitude is what is causing a lot of the problems with police. I was once stopped on suspicion of DUI (I was trying to plug in my phone) and I refused to perform field sobriety tests. I was in a hurry, knew I had nothing to drink in the last 12 hours (it was not even 9am) and its also my right to refuse those. The officer instantly got upset and told me I'm "going to regret saying that" and also falsely told me my license would be suspended for 12 months if I didn't consent. Any officer (and someone with Google) can learn that refusal of a breathylizer is what gets your license suspended, not refusal to perform field sobriety. He took 10 minutes to set up his PBT and I blew .000. He was upset and asked for permission to search my car for anything illegal. Again, I refused because I have that right and he didn't have probable cause. He got a call on his radio that called him away, but he parted by telling me I was a "smart ass" and "too smart for my own good." Actually, I know how the law works. I'm also lucky that I'm white and well educated. That stop could have gone downhill if I didn't respond respectfully, if I had a criminal record, or if my demographics made him assume I was "up to no good."

Going back to Antwon Rose, the District Attorney cleared him of any wrongdoing. Its right here: https://www.post-gazette.com/news/cr...s/201806270138

Shooting offensively is a crime. Even if you're a police officer. They're not above the law. Its the same as those idiots in Georgia who went after the jogger. Or George Zimmerman going after Trayvon Martin. That's what people are tired of - assuming the worst of a brown skinned person and using excessive force, usually as an offensive move. My unqualified opinion is that its cyclical - when the police stop using unnecessary force at a disproportionate rate with black people, we'll see black people start to trust the police more, resist less, and flee less. One can't happen without the other. Its hard to shape cultural behavior - much easier to change professional training.

The officer was tried and aquitted. Pretty common for a DA to absolve a dead person of any culpability in a crime when they have another person they are charging. Don't want to give the defense any chance to argue that the dead person was the ringleader or was involved and thereby, reduce his clients liability.

[Fightingscot82]

This is laughable but so very inline with liberal propaganda! According to liberal/socalist talking points:

1. White cops are ALL racists.
2. White cops target blacks for execution.
3. The only people that shoot and kill blacks are white cops.

As always...facts don't back up ANY of this so they are dismissed is irrellivent and the people that highlight them are summarily dismissed as "racist."

If minority cops want to quit, then they should. BIG difference between a person saying they want to quit their job and actually doing it. I "wanted to quit my job" at least 20 times over my 20 year career

If the Philly cops don't listen to the new comissioner, she should fire them for cause. If she is unwilling or unable to do that, she gets what she gets.

I believe police are no less likely to have bad people among their ranks than any other profession. HOWEVER, I do believe the profession attracts bad people more than some others. Two college fraternity brothers were studying criminal justice - both were (and still are) racist. One ended up a police officer outside of Philly and was actually fired for posting racist political posts on Facebook. The other works in state correction facility and also posts racist political things online. My cousin's husband is in law enforcement. He used to say coded racist things, like referring to black people as "Canadians". He's a good person, a good father, and a good officer - but I believe he grew up with some racist beliefs that had to be worked out. I do believe policing attracts people who want to bully. The "do as I say or else" attitude is what is causing a lot of the problems with police. I was once stopped on suspicion of DUI (I was trying to plug in my phone) and I refused to perform field sobriety tests. I was in a hurry, knew I had nothing to drink in the last 12 hours (it was not even 9am) and its also my right to refuse those. The officer instantly got upset and told me I'm "going to regret saying that" and also falsely told me my license would be suspended for 12 months if I didn't consent. Any officer (and someone with Google) can learn that refusal of a breathylizer is what gets your license suspended, not refusal to perform field sobriety. He took 10 minutes to set up his PBT and I blew .000. He was upset and asked for permission to search my car for anything illegal. Again, I refused because I have that right and he didn't have probable cause. He got a call on his radio that called him away, but he parted by telling me I was a "smart ass" and "too smart for my own good." Actually, I know how the law works. I'm also lucky that I'm white and well educated. That stop could have gone downhill if I didn't respond respectfully, if I had a criminal record, or if my demographics made him assume I was "up to no good."

Going back to Antwon Rose, the District Attorney cleared him of any wrongdoing. Its right here: https://www.post-gazette.com/news/cr...s/201806270138

Shooting offensively is a crime. Even if you're a police officer. They're not above the law. Its the same as those idiots in Georgia who went after the jogger. Or George Zimmerman going after Trayvon Martin. That's what people are tired of - assuming the worst of a brown skinned person and using excessive force, usually as an offensive move. My unqualified opinion is that its cyclical - when the police stop using unnecessary force at a disproportionate rate with black people, we'll see black people start to trust the police more, resist less, and flee less. One can't happen without the other. Its hard to shape cultural behavior - much easier to change professional training.

[Fightingscot82]

Interesting article from WCCS:



School District Cases

1. Blairsville-Saltsburg School District: 0 since start of school year
School District Communities: 1973 tests, 101 total cases since March (0.05)

2. United School District: 2 cases since start of school year
School District Communities: 484 tests, 13 cases since March (0.02)

3. Purchase Line School District: 0 cases since start of school year.
School District Communities: 771 tests, 0 confirmed cases. (0.00)

4. Penns Manor School District: 1 case since start of school year
School District Communities: 277 tests, 16 confirmed cases (0.05)

5. Marion Center School District: 0 cases since start of school year
School District Communities: 631 tests, 31 confirmed cases (0.04)

6. Homer-Center School District: 2 cases since start of school year, both have returned to school
School District Communities: 758 tests, 45 confirmed cases. (0.05)

7. Indiana School District: 1 case since start of school year
School District Communities: 3,696 tests, *282 confirmed cases (0.08)

*87 IUP cases in 15701 and 15705 zip codes.

Something that came up in my last meeting with Edinboro people, the president said something that led to their decision was not just how wide of a reach they have with people driving to campus every day to learn & work - but the frequency that residential students (on campus and in town) go home on the weekends. They didn't want to contribute to any spread in NWPA and that's admirable. Edinboro also wasn't in the financial position to conduct the amount of testing necessary for 5,000 students and employees stepping foot on campus. I posted the main article in the Covid thread, but this graphic was posted in an article by the SRU student paper:

[IUPNation]

Interesting article from WCCS:



School District Cases

1. Blairsville-Saltsburg School District: 0 since start of school year
School District Communities: 1973 tests, 101 total cases since March (0.05)

2. United School District: 2 cases since start of school year
School District Communities: 484 tests, 13 cases since March (0.02)

3. Purchase Line School District: 0 cases since start of school year.
School District Communities: 771 tests, 0 confirmed cases. (0.00)

4. Penns Manor School District: 1 case since start of school year
School District Communities: 277 tests, 16 confirmed cases (0.05)

5. Marion Center School District: 0 cases since start of school year
School District Communities: 631 tests, 31 confirmed cases (0.04)

6. Homer-Center School District: 2 cases since start of school year, both have returned to school
School District Communities: 758 tests, 45 confirmed cases. (0.05)

7. Indiana School District: 1 case since start of school year
School District Communities: 3,696 tests, *282 confirmed cases (0.08)

*87 IUP cases in 15701 and 15705 zip codes.

[IUPNation]

You have previously said that all conservative whites are racists. Now you are saying that most white police are conservative. So if most white police conservatives then they must be racist right?

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Interesting article from WCCS:



School District Cases

1. Blairsville-Saltsburg School District: 0 since start of school year
School District Communities: 1973 tests, 101 total cases since March (0.05)

2. United School District: 2 cases since start of school year
School District Communities: 484 tests, 13 cases since March (0.02)

3. Purchase Line School District: 0 cases since start of school year.
School District Communities: 771 tests, 0 confirmed cases. (0.00)

4. Penns Manor School District: 1 case since start of school year
School District Communities: 277 tests, 16 confirmed cases (0.05)

5. Marion Center School District: 0 cases since start of school year
School District Communities: 631 tests, 31 confirmed cases (0.04)

6. Homer-Center School District: 2 cases since start of school year, both have returned to school
School District Communities: 758 tests, 45 confirmed cases. (0.05)

7. Indiana School District: 1 case since start of school year
School District Communities: 3,696 tests, *282 confirmed cases (0.08)

*87 IUP cases in 15701 and 15705 zip codes.

[boatcapt]

You have previously said that all conservative whites are racists. Now you are saying that most white police are conservative. So if most white police conservatives then they must be racist right?

[IUPNation]

This is laughable but so very inline with liberal propaganda! According to liberal/socalist talking points:

1. White cops are ALL racists.
2. White cops target blacks for execution.
3. The only people that shoot and kill blacks are white cops.

As always...facts don't back up ANY of this so they are dismissed is irrellivent and the people that highlight them are summarily dismissed as "racist."

If minority cops want to quit, then they should. BIG difference between a person saying they want to quit their job and actually doing it. I "wanted to quit my job" at least 20 times over my 20 year career

If the Philly cops don't listen to the new comissioner, she should fire them for cause. If she is unwilling or unable to do that, she gets what she gets.

[boatcapt]

Eric Garner in New York was murdered by a white cop. The other cops on him were also white.

Many minority cops want to quit. I wonder they do.

In Philly the top cop is a woman of color but the white cops all listen to the triple jowled bigot who runs the FOP. He is beyond disgraceful.

This is laughable but so very inline with liberal propaganda! According to liberal/socalist talking points:

1. White cops are ALL racists.
2. White cops target blacks for execution.
3. The only people that shoot and kill blacks are white cops.

As always...facts don't back up ANY of this so they are dismissed is irrellivent and the people that highlight them are summarily dismissed as "racist."

If minority cops want to quit, then they should. BIG difference between a person saying they want to quit their job and actually doing it. I "wanted to quit my job" at least 20 times over my 20 year career

If the Philly cops don't listen to the new comissioner, she should fire them for cause. If she is unwilling or unable to do that, she gets what she gets.

[IUPNation]

Many/most of the big city PD's are made up of a majority of minoritiy officers. For example...NYPD is made up of 57% minoritity officers, DC Metropolitan PD is 65% minority. Guess those minority officers are all conservatives, and therefore by your definition, automatically ricist?

Eric Garner in New York was murdered by a white cop. The other cops on him were also white.

Many minority cops want to quit. I wonder they do.

In Philly the top cop is a woman of color but the white cops all listen to the triple jowled bigot who runs the FOP. He is beyond disgraceful.

[boatcapt]

Many/most of the big city PD's are made up of a majority of minoritiy officers. For example...NYPD is made up of 57% minoritity officers, DC Metropolitan PD is 65% minority. Guess those minority officers are all conservatives, and therefore by your definition, automatically ricist?

[IUPNation]

Just based on the pubically available facts, I agree that it was murder. Baring any additional evidence that we don't know about (and I can't imagine any evidence that would be enough to make the officers acts justified), he should be held accountable and he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

I do disagree with your characterization that SOME cops are really great...and SOME are not good at all. The VAST majority of cops fall into the great category while a VERY small number fall into the not good at all category.

[IUPNation]

I kind of doubt that he does. I would give that p rick 20 years for what he did to Floyd. It was plain murder.

Some cops are really great at what they do to protect and serve. And some are not so good at all.

-

The worst problem is that the good cops far too often stay silent on the behavior of the bad ones because if they speak out they get ostracized.

we need to demand better from PUBLIC SERVANTS who get paid by our tax money.