PASSHE Institutions Merging

[complaint_hopeful]

Probably way out of left field but just thinking out loud ... wonder if the PASSHE would ever consider -- in some manner -- selling off the perceived dead weight or poor-performing schools?

I'd have to think Pitt would love to have "Pitt-Clarion" or "Penn State-Lock Haven", etc. The towns don't get ravaged by a school closing. Things perhaps get a bit easier for the PASSHE to financially handle.

I guess the PASSHE downside is that's even more students their BFE branches can poach from us.

Of course, the way IUP is going maybe it becomes Happy Valley West.

Who knows ... maybe long term the majority of the PASSHE schools get gobbled up by Pitt and Penn State.

Quite a mess. With the privates -- the perceived 'better' schools -- offering mass discounts ... yet another massive hurdle for our lowly state schools.


To an extent today's kids are the children of the diploma factory 90s. Mom and Dad left IUP or Kutztown with a degree, debt and a job outside of their major. Going to college, per se, doesn't seem like it's being pushed like it was in the 80s and 90s. There are lots of other (sometimes better) paths to take. Just 25 years ago the perception was along the lines of go to college or go to McDonalds. Now for many of our majors it's go to college and straight to Starbucks or bartending.

There was some study, I believe before the current Chancellor got here that suggested merging or affiliating with a Penn State/Pitt/Temple or similar.

[complaint_hopeful]

It's not like having several factories that serve the same market. There you can lop off excess capacity to fix the problem, except for some transportation considerations. Each school has it's own market, albeit overlapping to some extent. It has been shown how much it will cost to close schools, also.

Ultimately, the market will dictate the future of these schools. If after the first round of changes are made schools continue to lose enrollment or stay insolvent, further changes will be required. If that happens (and few people think it won't) schools may close or be repurposed. The slow demise of the schools will enable the constituent groups of the schools and the local area and local economy to absorb the loss in a less painful way. That's what I see on a macro level.

Plus, you have the SNHU's that can serve the market too...and have agreements with the Community Colleges. So it's not like it's just residential schools.

The pandemic has shown that basically any school can be an online school. But, not everyone can do it well.

[complaint_hopeful]

It looks like other states have schools merging or talking or merging:

University Merger Talks On The Rise (forbes.com)

[boatcapt]

Seems that there are three "types" of 4 year colleges in PA. 1. Schools with a big name (Penn State, Pitt and I guess Temple). These schools use that name to charge higher tuition and are able to bring in a very large number of students. 2. Privates that "sell" their academic superiority/exclusivity. They bring in students looking for higher academics and/or the snob appeal of an "exclusive" college. 3. Schools that compete by being the lowest priced and least exclusive in town. They are like a volume car dealer, you get the best price but none of the frills (big name, academic reputation, snob appeal). Id put the PASSHE in the last category. Problem is that not as many people are buying cars anymore. Also the dealership seems to have forgotten its business model and are trying to compete with the 1's and 2's.

[complaint_hopeful]

Seems that there are three "types" of 4 year colleges in PA. 1. Schools with a big name (Penn State, Pitt and I guess Temple). These schools use that name to charge higher tuition and are able to bring in a very large number of students. 2. Privates that "sell" their academic superiority/exclusivity. They bring in students looking for higher academics and/or the snob appeal of an "exclusive" college. 3. Schools that compete by being the lowest priced and least exclusive in town. They are like a volume car dealer, you get the best price but none of the frills (big name, academic reputation, snob appeal). Id put the PASSHE in the last category. Problem is that not as many people are buying cars anymore. Also the dealership seems to have forgotten its business model and are trying to compete with the 1's and 2's.

Yep. And the decreased state funding made the PASSHE price creep higher and higher to the point that students looking to go there deem it a better value to just pay a little more to go to one of the other schools.

Layer on top of that competition from the SNHU's of the world that can provide online classes anywhere...and you have a hyper competitive market.

So what do you do? Do you work on trying to get your quality/brand image better? Do you work on cutting costs more? It's really probably the toughest market spot to be in.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Seems that there are three "types" of 4 year colleges in PA. 1. Schools with a big name (Penn State, Pitt and I guess Temple). These schools use that name to charge higher tuition and are able to bring in a very large number of students. 2. Privates that "sell" their academic superiority/exclusivity. They bring in students looking for higher academics and/or the snob appeal of an "exclusive" college. 3. Schools that compete by being the lowest priced and least exclusive in town. They are like a volume car dealer, you get the best price but none of the frills (big name, academic reputation, snob appeal). Id put the PASSHE in the last category. Problem is that not as many people are buying cars anymore. Also the dealership seems to have forgotten its business model and are trying to compete with the 1's and 2's.

That's not even mentioning the elite Carnegie Mellon level.

[Fightingscot82]

That's not even mentioning the elite Carnegie Mellon level.

I think by his description they're Tier 2.

[Bart]

That really is excellent. But how are you going to justify keeping that $60 million at the Bloomsburg campus?

A good reason to fight against the merger plan. If a university can keep it's name and athletic programs, they should be able to keep the money they raised.

[iupgroundhog]

A good reason to fight against the merger plan. If a university can keep it's name and athletic programs, they should be able to keep the money they raised.

Have the big mahoff's figured this out yet?

[Fightingscot82]

That really is excellent. But how are you going to justify keeping that $60 million at the Bloomsburg campus?

My understanding is that just like with other functions, back-end operations for alumni relations & fundraising will be pooled (database management, prospect research, estate giving, etc) but Bloom will ask Bloom alumni for money for Bloom purposes. Endowments are managed differently at each school. The Edinboro group I'm affiliated with holds roughly $1.5 million in endowed funds for Edinboro. Since we're a separate 501c3 non-profit that money's not going anywhere. There would be some legal work to combine foundations.

[complaint_hopeful]

A good reason to fight against the merger plan. If a university can keep it's name and athletic programs, they should be able to keep the money they raised.

I would think they'd let them keep it as alumni donate to specific schools. If they thought the money went elsewhere, they'd likely not give. Which gets into a lot of the discussions we're having.

[boatcapt]

Yep. And the decreased state funding made the PASSHE price creep higher and higher to the point that students looking to go there deem it a better value to just pay a little more to go to one of the other schools.

Layer on top of that competition from the SNHU's of the world that can provide online classes anywhere...and you have a hyper competitive market.

So what do you do? Do you work on trying to get your quality/brand image better? Do you work on cutting costs more? It's really probably the toughest market spot to be in.

A few months back I looked at the PASSHE approved budgets for the last 10ish years. Only once over the time frame was the budget cut. As I recall the years were evenly divided between the same budget the year before and a budget increase.

PASSHE is in a tough place...They can't really compete with the name universities and can't really compete on a precieved quality stand point.

[iupgroundhog]

A few months back I looked at the PASSHE approved budgets for the last 10ish years. Only once over the time frame was the budget cut. As I recall the years were evenly divided between the same budget the year before and a budget increase.
.

Can you provide a source for that budget info? What I remember is that Corbett made drastic cuts in his early years. After that, if it stayed the same it was still a cut. Under the Wolf administration, the budget has rebounded somewhat.

[Bart]

Have the big mahoff's figured this out yet?

The foundation is separate from the university and has it's own nonprofit status with the aim to help Bloomsburg. Since it is an independent, private,non-profit organization, they should be able to protect the assets from poachers. Plus all funds are distributed per the donor request.

[Fightingscot82]

A few months back I looked at the PASSHE approved budgets for the last 10ish years. Only once over the time frame was the budget cut. As I recall the years were evenly divided between the same budget the year before and a budget increase.

PASSHE is in a tough place...They can't really compete with the name universities and can't really compete on a precieved quality stand point.

Big problem is that Harrisburg signs system-wide labor contracts that bring annual cost increases that surpass any funding increases from the state. Throw in demographic-led enrollment losses and you've got a big problem. Penn State and Pitt have so much to throw around they've been bailing out their failing branch campuses for years. I believe only 2 or 3 Penn State campuses operate in the black and no Pitt branches but Bradford and Johnstown were close. Don't quote me on that - their finances aren't public like PASSHE.

The argument for state funding of colleges & tech schools has been lost. Its obvious because you have politicians who repeat the Heritage Center's cliche "why are my tax dollars paying for the education of somebody else's kid?" The answer is pretty simple - you're more likely to earn more over your lifetime with some sort of post-secondary education. Even a college dropout usually earns more than a high school graduate without any sort of training. More income equals more tax revenue. We all win.

There's going to be a major reckoning in a few decades as the population plummets and the tax revenue can't come near to paying for the government infrastructure built up between the 50s and 80s. Not just higher ed but the parks/forest system, state hospitals, state prisons, massive state police force, etc. Plus the full-time state legislature.