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  • The system chancellor is testifying in front of the state legislature today. To say he's getting grilled would be an understatement.

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    • Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
      The system chancellor is testifying in front of the state legislature today. To say he's getting grilled would be an understatement.
      I feel like there are A LOT of major details that haven't been worked out yet. Which is crazy, because the timeline is so tight that the implementation phase has to start soon.

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      • Something that came up yesterday that I was unaware of is SUNY (the most comparable system to PASSHE) had some failed consolidations a few years ago. That system is vast (3 research universities, dozens of regional state universities, some specialized schools, and dozens of community colleges). They paired based on geography and it didn't go well. Within a few years the consolidations were undone. I think we're headed for that with PASSHE.

        Another odd thing I noticed - the east triad schools are fighting this. Not a peep in the west.

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        • Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
          Another odd thing I noticed - the east triad schools are fighting this. Not a peep in the west.
          That's because adding Bloom into the deal was a mistake. The NE Triad has too much inequity built-in. LH ends up getting screwed. Under Pignatello, they were turning the corner on enrollment when this happened (I know Covid is the wildcard). Plus, the enrollment decline notwithstanding, they were in one of the better financial positions. Now, the fear is they get gobbled up by Bloom. The Bloom people don't seem big on it all, either, for reasons better explained by others.

          The original LH/Mansfield arrangement worked. Everybody was happy..

          Not to mention now that Hanna is the interim President of LHU and the LHU folks now know about his sordid history and that adds fuel to the fire.

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          • Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

            That's because adding Bloom into the deal was a mistake. The NE Triad has too much inequity built-in. LH ends up getting screwed. Under Pignatello, they were turning the corner on enrollment when this happened (I know Covid is the wildcard). Plus, the enrollment decline notwithstanding, they were in one of the better financial positions. Now, the fear is they get gobbled up by Bloom. The Bloom people don't seem big on it all, either, for reasons better explained by others.

            The original LH/Mansfield arrangement worked. Everybody was happy..

            Not to mention now that Hanna is the interim President of LHU and the LHU folks now know about his sordid history and that adds fuel to the fire.
            I agree with that sentiment. The attitude at Mansfield was fairly positive too. They just don't get the coverage LHU gets.

            Edinboro was turning the corner too. The margin was razor thin but February 2020 they were trending up with much improved retention and a plan to invest in the student experience. I think they just have Stockholm Syndrome anymore after years of losses, presidential turnover, etc. They are optimistic about Dr. Dale leading the triad - she comes with a pretty positive reputation at Clarion.

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            • Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
              The system chancellor is testifying in front of the state legislature today. To say he's getting grilled would be an understatement.
              The worst state legislature in America because it’s majority party is totally useless and has never done anything good.

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              • Seems like supporters of every school involved in the two mergers say that their school was just ready to "turn the corner" enrolement wise. Kind of the same thing you hear from failing schools across the nation...the "changes they have implimented" are just about to turn the school around and return it to greatness. Meanwhile, enrolement declines year after year after year...

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                • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
                  Seems like supporters of every school involved in the two mergers say that their school was just ready to "turn the corner" enrolement wise. Kind of the same thing you hear from failing schools across the nation...the "changes they have implimented" are just about to turn the school around and return it to greatness. Meanwhile, enrolement declines year after year after year...
                  But they were. Then Covid came.

                  Specifically, Edinboro's plan was to significantly increase the admission standard and ditch their pseudo-community college program in suburban Erie. Enrollment decreased because they were accepting far fewer students. For three straight years Edinboro had the lowest admit rate in PASSHE. Once the retention rate improved they were going to reinvest in Student Affairs. I would have done both simultaneously but what do I know. There were additional plans to shed expenses as well (sell property, outsource backend operations, etc). When Covid came they lost students. When Edinboro announced they were going online for the fall, they lost 30-40 new freshmen. That's roughly $1 million right there. The plan was working.

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                  • Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

                    But they were. Then Covid came.

                    Specifically, Edinboro's plan was to significantly increase the admission standard and ditch their pseudo-community college program in suburban Erie. Enrollment decreased because they were accepting far fewer students. For three straight years Edinboro had the lowest admit rate in PASSHE. Once the retention rate improved they were going to reinvest in Student Affairs. I would have done both simultaneously but what do I know. There were additional plans to shed expenses as well (sell property, outsource backend operations, etc). When Covid came they lost students. When Edinboro announced they were going online for the fall, they lost 30-40 new freshmen. That's roughly $1 million right there. The plan was working.
                    It always seems to be somthing that interfears with these failing colleges return to success. This time it's that danged old Covid that hit right when they were about to turn the corner and return to success!!

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                    • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                      It always seems to be somthing that interfears with these failing colleges return to success. This time it's that danged old Covid that hit right when they were about to turn the corner and return to success!!
                      You can dismiss it all you want but its literally what happened.

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                      • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                        It always seems to be somthing that interfears with these failing colleges return to success. This time it's that danged old Covid that hit right when they were about to turn the corner and return to success!!
                        Well, it reminds me of sports. Some teams I follow will go 5-11. They'll lose 6 games by 7 points or less. And a lot of fans will be like, look at our key injuries! If healthy, we win 5 more games.. if this or that. Take away a turnover, etc.

                        Then, the next year they go 5-11 again.

                        These schools in general aren't losing massive numbers. They're generally losing 1-5% enrollment...but they're doing it year after year. Yeah some lose more, but it's generally a slow bleed.

                        So yeah...I'm sure they feel like improving this variable or that variable could yield 1-5% more students.

                        And within metrics, you can always find a positive one. One I saw for a school that had a lower total amount of credits is that they have a record number of incoming Spring freshman. So while total credits are down, they have that Stat.

                        Covid definitely hurt the colleges. The gov gave the schools some funding, but covid is a nasty blow.

                        Would schools have turned the corner? Hard to say. I think all but 2-3 schools are consistently losing enrollment.

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                        • Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

                          You can dismiss it all you want but its literally what happened.
                          I'm sure the school leaders believe that what they are doing is going to turn things around. Problem in this case is that it just never happens.

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                          • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                            I'm sure the school leaders believe that what they are doing is going to turn things around. Problem in this case is that it just never happens.
                            I can understand that perspective but what I was referring to for LHU and what FS82 is referring to for Edinboro are documentable. Nobody has said those numbers would become trends and result in a full recovery. At LH, Pignatello laid out a plan and it was showing results. It was aborted by integration and the pandemic so we'll never know how far back he could have brought it. You can't legitimately argue against reality. Unless you're a member of the GOP., I guess.

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                            • Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

                              I can understand that perspective but what I was referring to for LHU and what FS82 is referring to for Edinboro are documentable. Nobody has said those numbers would become trends and result in a full recovery. At LH, Pignatello laid out a plan and it was showing results. It was aborted by integration and the pandemic so we'll never know how far back he could have brought it. You can't legitimately argue against reality. Unless you're a member of the GOP., I guess.
                              Then I guess there is nothing really to worry about.

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                              • Here's one for ya.

                                https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/li...?ocid=msedgntp

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