PASSHE Institutions Merging

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Maybe they can merge with PennWest.

I'm cynical but that is a shocking situation for a state flagship school to be in.

In reality, WVU and IUP are very similar in regard to public perception. WVU is largely seen as the 'big school' version of IUP by most in these parts.

WVU is often the 'fall back' selection. Personally, I'd take IUP any day over WVU. Morgantown is a dump. But, it's a 'name' -- a bigger name for the target audience FS82 described above.

[iupgroundhog]

About 45% is out of state. WVU has some big discount offers for targeted PA & OH counties. But by and large WVU's student profile resembles IUP. Average students with average to below average family incomes. Very sensitive to price and more likely to not finish on time if at all.

Maybe they can merge with PennWest.

I'm cynical but that is a shocking situation for a state flagship school to be in.

[Fightingscot82]

So a shrinking state that is on average poor…is having a hard time with multiple schools. I mean how much of WVU’s student body is from outside West Virginia? I bet fairly high.

This is why the got stuck in the Big 12 because the See Everyone Cheat conference thought they were too low brow even for them.

About 45% is out of state. WVU has some big discount offers for targeted PA & OH counties. But by and large WVU's student profile resembles IUP. Average students with average to below average family incomes. Very sensitive to price and more likely to not finish on time if at all.

[IUPNation]

For those who haven't seen the coverage or the conversation in the MEC board...

WVU is in financial trouble as well. They are cutting 32 degree programs and about 145 professor positions. Not sure how many administrative staff (they don't have a contract that requires advanced planning). Similar to what the PennWest schools and IUP tried to do - they had a plan to build the university to 40,000 students by 2030 but instead now they're projecting to be down to about 25,000. $45 million revenue gap for this current fiscal year and they're a staggering $940 million in debt.

So a shrinking state that is on average poor…is having a hard time with multiple schools. I mean how much of WVU’s student body is from outside West Virginia? I bet fairly high.

This is why the got stuck in the Big 12 because the See Everyone Cheat conference thought they were too low brow even for them.

[Fightingscot82]

For those who haven't seen the coverage or the conversation in the MEC board...

WVU is in financial trouble as well. They are cutting 32 degree programs and about 145 professor positions. Not sure how many administrative staff (they don't have a contract that requires advanced planning). Similar to what the PennWest schools and IUP tried to do - they had a plan to build the university to 40,000 students by 2030 but instead now they're projecting to be down to about 25,000. $45 million revenue gap for this current fiscal year and they're a staggering $940 million in debt.

[Ship69]

There's always something going on at Cheyney

https://www.inquirer.com/education/c...-20230814.html

For those who can't access Philly Inquirer: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...nduct-lawsuits

Every time a university gets involved in legal shenanigans I think of how much good that money would do if it went toward scholarships, facilities, faculty, etc.

[Fightingscot82]

There's always something going on at Cheyney

https://www.inquirer.com/education/c...-20230814.html

For those who can't access Philly Inquirer: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...nduct-lawsuits

[Fightingscot82]

Good article on how the state related universities (Penn State, Pitt, Temple, Lincoln) are not subject to the state open records law and how that's hung up their annual state funding.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202308130141

TLDR: Pitt, Penn State, Temple, Lincoln don't need to disclose any financial data beyond what a private university discloses via the annual Form 990 tax filing.

[Ship69]

Its all searchable anyway.

watch.pa.gov/employees/Pages/Employee-Salaries.aspx

So basically if it's in the media they've saved me the trouble.

[IUPNation]

So some students value the Penn State, Pitt or Temple name on their diploma? One might deduce that employers do as well. Or government officials who fund those institutions.

When will PASSHE or PennWest have a name brand that becomes desired?

Then those students can pay their loans in full since they desired the name brand and the students who went to STATE OWNED Public Universities can have their loans forgiven since it should not have cost so much to begin with…

[Horror Child]

I think the highest priority for the state should be determining a per-student funding rate for the different classifications instead of arguing big arbitrary appropriation figures. Here is how it shook out for 2022-23 per student:

Thaddeus Stevens: $15,260 per student
Lincoln: $10,417 per student

PASSHE: $6,925 per student
Pitt: $5,876 per student
Temple: $4,940 per student
Penn State: $2,743 per student

Numbers are the 2022-23 state appropriation and the fall 22 enrollment for each. Penn State's appropriation doesn't include all the agriculture and extension funds they get to do non-college stuff as our state A&M university.

My argument has always been that PASSHE (and Thaddeus Stevens) funding and tuition should be tied to the federal Pell Grant program so that the highest Pell Grant covers PASSHE tuition & fees. The PHEAA grant funding model should be reversed so the highest grants go to those attending PASSHE, not those attending private colleges, so that the PHEAA grant covers the lowest level of room & board. That way the neediest students can attend for free. Pitt and Penn State can start fundraising for their endowments to cover scholarships instead of professorships and department operating funds if they want to attract these students. State-related funding should be half that of PASSHE. By and large they have fundraising capacity to make up the difference and beyond Temple they're just using branch campuses to farm out the average students who would otherwise be attending PASSHE schools but are willing to pay more for the brand name logo on their diploma.

So some students value the Penn State, Pitt or Temple name on their diploma? One might deduce that employers do as well. Or government officials who fund those institutions.

When will PASSHE or PennWest have a name brand that becomes desired?

[Fightingscot82]

I might be weird, but I have a certain fascination with what people are making when I'm helping foot the bill.

Its all searchable anyway.

watch.pa.gov/employees/Pages/Employee-Salaries.aspx

[Ship69]

I think that was their rationale at the time - but it also proved to be somewhat untrue as a) Penn State employees are not state employees, and b) we learned his base salary paid by the university was small but he received seven figure compensation through Nike and other program ventures.

Patriot News/PennLive has a weird fascination with state employee compensation. They still make a huge deal out of their annual list of state employees making $100,000 a year. That is a nice round number but beyond Boomers that income isn't the elite number it used to be. A PA State Police officer makes that much in year 13. Imagine living in rural PA being in your mid 30s making six figures with their cost of living.

I might be weird, but I have a certain fascination with what people are making when I'm helping foot the bill.

[Ship69]

My memory tells me he was referred to as "the highest-paid state employee." FS82 can tell me if that was an accurate description or not. A little bit off-topic but I always think it's interesting how people tend to look at government expenditures as $$ down the drain. The fact is that Paterno created a billion-dollar industry. How much revenue accrued to the state as a result of his life's work?

He made Penn State football a lot bigger, but it was already a pretty substantial property before he arrived. And huge TV contracts have certainly poured a lot of money into the kitty.

[WarriorVoice]

I think there's a lesson to be learned here. If you can't speak to that, you probably shouldn't. Not on the PSAC D2 board, anyway.

Yeah. I'll do that right after you do. Who the hell are you to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't say on a discussion board?!