The Dixon Trophy Is Still Bogus

[IUPNation]

Which is why it's seen as an "all sports" trophy not a "the world revolves around IUP" trophy. If you don't like how the Dixon Trophy is set up, write a strongly worded letter to the P-S-A-C.

Track U was only good in one sport…maybe look at the facts and not your anti IUP bias.

[ctrabs74]

Titles only matter. We’ve won the most so far this year including the two biggest chips on the men’s side.

Does the national trophy reward second place finishes? No it does not.

If you're talking about the Learfield Director's Cup, then, yes, actually they do. THE Overrated State University is leading in the winter standings of the D1 Director's Cup despite winning exactly ZERO national titles. So, yes, the "national trophy" does reward second, third, fourth, fifth places, etc. (Georgia is 13th despite winning the national football title.) So, there's another one of your theories shot to hell.

[ctrabs74]

Not only is [the PSAC] the biggest D2 conference in membership (I think), the PSAC boasts a lot of unique things that don't exist in other conferences. We still have 4 D1 Wrestling programs and each of them has finished in the top 5 nationally in D1 at some point in their history. That's a significant thing. We have a D1 Ice Hockey Program and we have a D1 Field Hockey program. We have a D1 presence in 3 sports.

The PSAC will be the largest D2 conference with 18 schools, until Sul Ross State officially becomes competing in the Lone Star Conference, which will bring the Lone Star Conference back to 18 (though one school, Texas Woman's University, doesn't field men's sports).

[IUPNation]

If you're talking about the Learfield Director's Cup, then, yes, actually they do. THE Overrated State University is leading in the winter standings of the D1 Director's Cup despite winning exactly ZERO national titles. So, yes, the "national trophy" does reward second, third, fourth, fifth places, etc. (Georgia is 13th despite winning the national football title.) So, there's another one of your theories shot to hell.

They base it on NCAA playoff finishes which is still better method than the Dixon. Teams actually have to make the NCAA playoffs to get points. It also covers more sports than the Dixon. It’s not rewarding mediocrity and schools that dominate one sport to game the system. If IUP was only good in foosball and nothing else I wouldn’t be saying anything. We have won the most conference titles this year and are way down in the standings. So you are wrong again that my theory is shot to hell.

In the Dixon you can finish 2 or 3 in the regular season In every sport, not make the NCAA playoffs in most of them, and get a trophy from the Home Office that you are the bestest.

Where is IUP in relation to the other Pee Sack schools in the national D2 trophy. I’ll wait.

Im right. You are misguided.

Keep trying it’s never going to change my stance. I know I’m right.

[IUPNation]

Pee Sack in the Learfield Directors Cup
Standings through the winter. The national ranking is in parentheses. Dixon Standings in bracket.

1. Walk On U (8th) {2nd}
2. IUP (25th) {7th}
3. Track U (42nd) {4th}
4. Clarion (46th) {15th}
5. LIT AF (47th) {1st}
6. Edinboro (65th) {9th}
Lake Show (65th) {14th}
7. East Dennyburg (99th) {8th}
8. Kutztown (107th) {5th}
9. Lock Haven (132nd) {13th}
10. Shepherd (133rd) {16th}
11. Mon Valley U (137th) {6th}
Pitt-Johnstown (137th) {17th}
12. Slimey Pebble (140th) {3rd}
13. Seton Hill (185th) {11th}
14. Millersville (192nd) { 10th}
15. Bloomsburg (201st) {12th}

Mansfield- Better luck next time. {18th}

Notice how the Dixon rewards some schools who fail nationally.

Notice the top 2…both who are the top two in Pee Sack titles so far after the winter…funny how that works.

Facts>Feelings

[ctrabs74]

They base it on NCAA playoff finishes which is still better method than the Dixon. Teams actually have to make the NCAA playoffs to get points. It also covers more sports than the Dixon. It’s not rewarding mediocrity and schools that dominate one sport to game the system. If IUP was only good in foosball and nothing else I wouldn’t be saying anything. We have won the most conference titles this year and are way down in the standings. So you are wrong again that my theory is shot to hell.

In the Dixon you can finish 2 or 3 in the regular season In every sport, not make the NCAA playoffs in most of them, and get a trophy from the Home Office that you are the bestest.

Yet, the Dixon Trophy is not designed for apples to oranges competition for PSAC schools lucky enough to qualify for the NCAA tournament. The Dixon Trophy is based upon how well you perform against teams within the conference... just like pretty much every other conference which offers such a trophy in D2.

Where is IUP in relation to the other Pee Sack schools in the national D2 trophy. I’ll wait.

Im right. You are misguided.

Keep trying it’s never going to change my stance. I know I’m right.

There's that Philadelphia-stan mentality at play again... I swear, Philly Fan is worse than Boston Fan on the Insufferablity Scale...

[ctrabs74]

Pee Sack in the Learfield Directors Cup
Standings through the winter. The national ranking is in parentheses. Dixon Standings in bracket.

1. Walk On U (8th) {2nd}
2. IUP (25th) {7th}
3. Track U (42nd) {4th}
4. Clarion (46th) {15th}
5. LIT AF (47th) {1st}
6. Edinboro (65th) {9th}
Lake Show (65th) {14th}
7. East Dennyburg (99th) {8th}
8. Kutztown (107th) {5th}
9. Lock Haven (132nd) {13th}
10. Shepherd (133rd) {16th}
11. Mon Valley U (137th) {6th}
Pitt-Johnstown (137th) {17th}
12. Slimey Pebble (140th) {3rd}
13. Seton Hill (185th) {11th}
14. Millersville (192nd) { 10th}
15. Bloomsburg (201st) {12th}

Mansfield- Better luck next time. {18th}

Notice how the Dixon rewards sone schools who fail nationally.

Again, how a team competes in the NCAA tournament is irrelevant to a trophy designed for intra-conference competition.

(That said, I'm actually surprised West Chester is in 8th nationally, but I guess when you get your women's basketball team to the NCAA Atlantic Regional Finals for the first time in program history, that'll boost the national rankings a lot.)

[ctrabs74]

You agreed that your adopted school could game the system by winning the few sports it has a few pennies to sponsor when the whole world knows it barely has a sports program. So you just inadvertently agreed that it's a flawed trophy and the winners are mostly bogus.

This would be the same Mansfield program whose softball team just wrapped up their regular season by losing 31 of 32 PSAC East games this season. Cheyney football is laughing at Mansfield's futility.

West Chester can win by dominating the sports that few other schools field and run up their average despite the foosball team just being slightly above average most years and not really that strong in basketball. The baseball program is the only standout. Some of West Chester's Dixon win are kinda legit.

WCU's women's team advanced to the regional finals (only to lose to Glenville), but I'll agree with you about football and men's basketball.

For something that so many of you claim doesn't matter or not a big deal...you all certainly care a lot about my argument this trophy is a piece of crap due to it's flawed way of calculating the winner.

So, what's your solution? We're all ears...

[IUPNation]

Yet, the Dixon Trophy is not designed for apples to oranges competition for PSAC schools lucky enough to qualify for the NCAA tournament. The Dixon Trophy is based upon how well you perform against teams within the conference... just like pretty much every other conference which offers such a trophy in D2.



There's that Philadelphia-stan mentality at play again... I swear, Philly Fan is worse than Boston Fan on the Insufferablity Scale...

Aren’t you from Upper Darby?

You celebrate Pee Sack small mindedness. Good for you.

[IUPNation]

Again, how a team competes in the NCAA tournament is irrelevant to a trophy designed for intra-conference competition.

(That said, I'm actually surprised West Chester is in 8th nationally, but I guess when you get your women's basketball team to the NCAA Atlantic Regional Finals for the first time in program history, that'll boost the national rankings a lot.)

Ok…IUP had 4 Pee Sack titles so far this year. Seems like we do pretty good in the conference.

But we are 7th.

What a ****ing joke.

[IUPNation]

This would be the same Mansfield program whose softball team just wrapped up their regular season by losing 31 of 32 PSAC East games this season. Cheyney football is laughing at Mansfield's futility.



WCU's women's team advanced to the regional finals (only to lose to Glenville), but I'll agree with you about football and men's basketball.



So, what's your solution? We're all ears...

I’ve offered solutions. Pay attention instead of just responding without listening. Go back through the thread.

Imnot the one being unreasonable. You people are…

[IUPNation]

Then don’t act like this trophy has been awarded to schools with “balanced” sports programs. You win all four track titles, do well enough in a few more sports and still suck at foosball and you get a prize!

The track categories should be merged into one average ranking. I can’t imaging the indoor and outdoor rosters differ.

Also they should double the award points for finishing first in foosball, basketball and baseball on the men’s side and Volleyball, basketball and softball in the women’s side. They are the biggest sports.

Or give out separate trophies for men and women. The IUP men are killing it every year but our ladies aren’t matching them. With most schools offering more sports for the ladies it’s weighted on who has the best women’s programs. Again not fair.

Suggestion.

[IUPNation]

So this trophy is based on the average of every sport's finish.

West Chester and Bloomsburg sponsor 22 sports in total. They have the best shot each year to win the trophy if they dominate the sports that not many schools sponsor.

Ship/Kutztown and East Dennyburg come in at 20 sports.

IUP, Millersville and The Stewies have 19.

Mon Valley U has 18.

Slimey Pebble/The Lake Show and Lock Haven have 17.

LIT AF, Edinboro, and Clarion have 16.

Shepherd and UPJ have 15.

Mansfield has 12.

So how can you give out an award calculated by the average of each sport when many schools don't play a lot of sports in the calculations.

Only 7 schools field a men's tennis team. Only 10 have men's golf and shockingly only 7 have men's swimming. Out of 18 schools.

On the ladies, only 11 play field hockey.

This supports my argument that three sports on each side get a heavier weight in the calculations for winning the title...sports that almost every school fields...to make it balanced and give schools with less sports a better shot.

On the left is the order in the standings for last year based on the bogus way the Home Office calculates...on the right would have been the correct standings based on giving the champions of the 6 most common sports sponsored by each school (3 men and 3 women) double the points for winning the Pee Sack title.

1. Gannon/Gannon (3 Pee Sack Titles, one shared with UPJ in Men's Wrestling)
2. Slimey Pebble/Millersville (3 Pee Sack Titles)
3. Mercyhurst/IUP (3 Pee Sack Titles)
4. Millersville/Slimey Pebble (Zero., Zilch, Nada Pee Sack Titles)
5. Edinboro/Mercyhurst (0 Pee Sack Titles)
6. Walk On U/Edinboro (4 Pee Sack titles, but three of them were track and field)
7. Shippensburg/Kutztown (2 Pee Sack Titles)
8. Mon Valley U/Walk On U (2 Pee Sack Titles)
9. IUP/Shippensburg (3 Pee Sack Titles, 2 were track and field and the other Field Hockey)
10. Bloomsburg/Mon Valley U (0 titles)
11. Kutztown/Bloomsburg (0 titles)
12. East Dennyburg/East Dennyburg (1 Pee Sack title)
13. Seton Hill/Seton Hill (0)
14. Shepherd/Shepherd (0)
15. Lock Haven/Lock Haven (0)
16. UPJ/Clarion ( 1 Pee Sack Title)
17. Clarion/UPJ ( 1 Shared Pee Sack Title)
18. Mansfield/Mansfield (0)

Awarded 36 points instead of 18 in the standings for winning these titles:

Kutztown - Foosball
IUP - Men's Basketball
Millersville - Baseball

Clarion - Volleyball
Gannon - Ladies Basketball
Kutztown - Softball

Gannon would have still won the Dixon but at least now it would be legit now that every school was given a fair calculation.

IUP, Millersville, Kutztown and Clarion each all jumped in the standings based on this criteria. As they should.

Suggestion.

[ctrabs74]

Suggestion.

Response:

Awarded 36 points instead of 18 in the standings for winning these titles:

Kutztown - Foosball
IUP - Men's Basketball
Millersville - Baseball

Clarion - Volleyball
Gannon - Ladies Basketball
Kutztown - Softball

That pretty much undermines the idea behind the Dixon Trophy in the first place, which was to recognize all sports and not just the "major" ones.

The track categories should be merged into one average ranking. I can’t imaging the indoor and outdoor rosters differ.

Except that cross-country, indoor track and outdoor track, while similar, have significant differences between the three. The NCAA, nor the Learfield Cup organizers, consolidate the three disciplines into one category.

This supports my argument that three sports on each side get a heavier weight in the calculations for winning the title...sports that almost every school fields...to make it balanced and give schools with less sports a better shot.

The point scales are already significantly different for each sport as they're based on the number of schools which sponsor the sport, so it's not one size fits all.

The suggestions can be loosely translated to, "Rig the system to benefit IUP."

[IUPNation]

Response:




That pretty much undermines the idea behind the Dixon Trophy in the first place, which was to recognize all sports and not just the "major" ones.

So why even include the real sports? It's a track and field and swimming trophy. The idea behind the Dixon Trophy was to reward the schools that can't or won't put in the time or money to be successful in sports that actually are newsworthy. Why reward a school that has been raising more money for 40 years in foosball and won more D2 playoff games by far than anyone else in the conference or built a 70 million dollar facility that elevated them in basketball. No lets reward the schools that suck in that every year but dominate in Potato Sack Races and Marco Polo.

Are you on D2Football or is this D2TrackAndField?

Except that cross-country, indoor track and outdoor track, while similar, have significant differences between the three. The NCAA, nor the Learfield Cup organizers, consolidate the three disciplines into one category.

The track and field gets diluted because there are a lot more sports that get points awarded on the national trophy. So you can't just game it like Track U did.

The point scales are already significantly different for each sport as they're based on the number of schools which sponsor the sport, so it's not one size fits all.

The suggestions can be loosely translated to, "Rig the system to benefit IUP."

It's already been rigged for Track U and Walk On U? Didn't you go to Walk On U? Oh....that's why you want the status quo.

Sashay Away.