Week 0 - Approved for games (immediately)

[Brandon]

How will these games against FCS opponents be looked upon . Let’s say a team goes 8-3 with one of the losses to an FCS school that was competitive. I know a lot would depend on who the two losses were to . Hard for me to believe that anyone could be penalized for scheduling these games.

They would be considered 8-2. I am of the opinion that all games should count, even competitive losses to FCS schools.

[WBChargerDad]

Are we talking Mankato and Duluth again..?

I was talking in generalities, not specifically about that situation.

[laker]

What do we have so far in the NSIC to fill that open date? Some Week Zero games, some later. We can fill this in as things get finalized. These are some that have been mentioned.

Augie at SDSU 9/14
Michigan Tech @ Bemidji 8/29 updated 2/5
Concordia @ Upper Iowa TBD
Mary ?
UMD @ Northern Michigan Week 0 updated 2/4
MSU-Mankato @ Northwest MO 8/29 6 PM updated 2/6
MSU-Moorhead (corrected)
Valley City St @ Minot St 8/29
Northern St @ South Dakota 8/29 USF @ St Thomas Week 0
UN-Kearney @ Southwest MN St 10/5
Wayne St (corrected)
Saginaw Valley St @ Winona St 9/7 updated 2/5

[WBChargerDad]

SOS is context for winning percentage, and neither should be used without the other. One can argue the best method of calculating SOS, or what the best way to combine the two is... SOS has less emphasis in football than in other D2 sports. Yet even at this level of emphasis, UMD was nearly an entire loss's worth of SOS below MSU. Their schedule gave them three opportunities to pick up good wins, and they converted on one of them when they needed to convert on two to be in the conversation... maybe that seems like a tough ask, but Bemidji and MSU each went 3-for-5 in such games. (So did Wayne, but they faltered against a weaker opponent... I think they were above UMD in the final pecking order despite that.)

It's easy to get carried away with head-to-heads. In a vacuum, it's easy to say that if A beats B, then A should be ranked higher, but nothing happens in a vacuum. You could try to build a ranking out of head-to-heads, but that doesn't work in practice, which is why other systems are needed.

I wasn't referring to the UMD vs. MSU situation, was speaking in generalities. About UMD and MSU, like you mention, as much as us UMD fans wanted to make that a 2 team comparison, it was a 3 team comparison involving WSC, maybe more in the region actually, and that complicates things significantly. As much as I possibly can, I'm removing emotion from the situation and applying my beliefs on how to fairly evaluate teams. In a straight 2 team comparison, on field results for me is the most important criteria with the same or similar records, and where the record is slightly different, common opponent results and SOS are separators. Analytics and calculated statistics are great ways, as good as we have at comparing teams when there isn't on field results, again with teams with similar records. SOS does fall apart a little bit IMO when trying to compare teams where there is no overlap at all with H2H or common opponents, but there really isn't a better more objective way, you would need more room for subjectivity, and that really has the potential to get ugly.

Now, if you look at those 3 teams (even though it probably isn't even THAT clean) in a straight 2 team comparison with equal or similar records in all 3 possible combinations.

If you compare UMD and MSU, based on the same records, and the head to head results, I would choose UMD based on the H2H.
If you compare WSC and UMD, based on similar records, and the head to head result, and the SOS, I choose Wayne State. H2H win for WSC, 1 more loss, and a worse loss at that, but SOS and the quality of their wins neutralizes that difference.
If you compare WSC and MSU, based on similar records, and the head to head result and the record advantage, I would choose MSU.

So, SOS has a place there, and where MSU and WSC have virtually identical SOS, and better by a fair margin than UMD, MSU gets the nod with the H2H and better record.

My complaint at the time of the playoff brackets, wasn't really MSU getting in over UMD, it was the fact that out of division games, especially losses against lower divisions, aren't considered at all when it comes to picking playoff teams. That wasn't the fault of those choosing the playoff participants, but the fault of those setting the guidelines. A loss to an NAIA team, and getting run off the field in the season finale are losses that ring differently. The magnitude of the loss isn't a consideration, and the NAIA game doesn't count at all. I get wins over lower levels of competition can't matter, but losses certainly should. Now Central Washington won a couple games in the playoffs, including over Bemidji, proving they were a good team, but this was an argument between good teams, all of which had the ability to beat each other on any given Saturday. But, given the previous comparisons I made, keeping CWU out probably let's WSC in, not UMD anyway.

Reality is, with the current playoff criteria, as much as I want to see them refined, and as much as I wanted to see UMD in the playoffs, UMD needed to beat WSC OR have WSC lose to Augustana. Either of those happens, based on how I value H2H, UMD would have deserved to be in over MSU and would have had a bigger complaint if they weren't as with matching 9-2 records and a H2H result, a road win to end the regular season.

Was that my reaction the day the playoff brackets were announced?? uh, no.. LOL that day I had a more emotional reaction!! I believed, and still do, perhaps affected to some degree by my fanaticism, that UMD had the ability to win some playoff games, and that won't change, but, I think I did a fair job of removing emotion from this assessment.

[Matt Witwicki]

What do we have so far in the NSIC to fill that open date? Some Week Zero games, some later. We can fill this in as things get finalized. These are some that have been mentioned.

Augie at SDSU 9/14
Bemidji ?
Concordia @ Upper Iowa TBD
Mary ?
UMD ?
MSU-Mankato @ Northwest MO Week 0
MSU-Moorhead @ Wayne St 8/31 Didn't find a Dragon schedule yet
Valley City St @ Minot St 8/29
Northern St @ South Dakota 8/29 USF @ St Thomas Week 0
UN-Kearney @ Southwest MN St 10/5
MSU-Moorhead @ Wayne St 8/31 MO S&T @ Wayne St 9/23
Winona St ?

Laker, to my understanding..UMD vs Northern Mich was a 2 year deal..so they'd be meeting again. Last year W1. Unsure they'd move that to W0 as there wouldn't be much gained..but maybe.

In theory, if teams already had a non-con game scheduled like SMSU..they could move it to W0 now..unless they are already too deep into plans and such for the 10/5 date.

What is the Moorhead vs Wayne game in W0..? I don't know of that or maybe I missed it....or is that Wayne in Michigan? Thanks.

I did hear BSU will be announcing a W0 opponent in the coming days..but I didn't get word on who it was.

[laker]

Laker, to my understanding..UMD vs Northern Mich was a 2 year deal..so they'd be meeting again. Last year W1. Unsure they'd move that to W0 as there wouldn't be much gained..but maybe.

In theory, if teams already had a non-con game scheduled like SMSU..they could move it to W0 now..unless they are already too deep into plans and such for the 10/5 date.

What is the Moorhead vs Wayne game in W0..? I don't know of that or maybe I missed it....or is that Wayne in Michigan? Thanks.

I did hear BSU will be announcing a W0 opponent in the coming days..but I didn't get word on who it was.

No, that was just me typing in 2024 schedule and getting a 2023 one! Corrected now, thanks for the heads up!

[Stanger86]

No, that was just me typing in 2024 schedule and getting a 2023 one! Corrected now, thanks for the heads up!

Put the chocolate milk down before you type next time!

[BulldogFan]

Laker, to my understanding..UMD vs Northern Mich was a 2 year deal..so they'd be meeting again. Last year W1. Unsure they'd move that to W0 as there wouldn't be much gained..but maybe.

In theory, if teams already had a non-con game scheduled like SMSU..they could move it to W0 now..unless they are already too deep into plans and such for the 10/5 date.

What is the Moorhead vs Wayne game in W0..? I don't know of that or maybe I missed it....or is that Wayne in Michigan? Thanks.

I did hear BSU will be announcing a W0 opponent in the coming days..but I didn't get word on who it was.

UMD @ Northern Michigan is a week zero game with UMD having a bye week in week 1

[laker]

UMD @ Northern Michigan is a week zero game with UMD having a bye week in week 1

Thanks! Updated

[Millsy]

Michigan Tech at Bemidji State, August 29th.

https://bsubeavers.com/news/2024/2/5...igan-tech.aspx

[Matt Witwicki]

Michigan Tech at Bemidji State, August 29th.

https://bsubeavers.com/news/2024/2/5...igan-tech.aspx

There is it....Michigan Tech is an interesting matchup. 5-5 squad a year ago that competed with Ferris State (down 7 heading into the 4th quarter of their game).but then was bleh in some other games. Initial thought is BSU will be a 14pt favorite at home..as they move-on from Alt at QB and plenty of turnover on defense.


MI Tech is about 7 hours East of BSU..on HWY 2..into the Northern tip of Michigan....but they'll be headed to Bemidji.

[34blast]

I saw on the Winona State signing day press release they will host Saginaw State on Thursday September 5 as a week 1 game. Winona put up their 2024 schedule, but that game is not included. Not sure if it is already agreed to on that date or they are exploring moving it to week 0. I bet they stick with the Thursday week1.

Side note, no Mankato or Sioux Falls on the schedule this year, kinda odd not to see them.

[Matt Witwicki]

I saw on the Winona State signing day press release they will host Saginaw State on Thursday September 5 as a week 1 game. Winona put up their 2024 schedule, but that game is not included. Not sure if it is already agreed to on that date or they are exploring moving it to week 0. I bet they stick with the Thursday week1.

Side note, no Mankato or Sioux Falls on the schedule this year, kinda odd not to see them.

SVSU at Winona....that makes sense to me..since WSU went there last year for their opener. Since it's W1 vs W0..I'm not sure teams will be motived to make a change there. Not much is gained.

This will be the last year of the 2YR UIU-departure scheduling model. Like you mentioned, there's some weird stuff like that since they just plug it into a deal and it gives them a schedule with certain rules applied..but no rivalry game rules or something..same reason you randomly won't see BSU vs UMD this year.

I'm hoping for the next schedule (2025 and forward) will see some kinda North and South (which I'm fine with for ease of travels) but then a few N vs S games..and an opening for each school to go find a non con....with Week 0 now being a thing.

A schedule model that has a team from the South playing all 6 other South schools..and then the other 7 North teams over the course of a 2 year window (4 one year, 3 the next, etc)..and then non-con openings.

For the coaches....in the next schedule model vote....let's schedule for 2025..future thinking, Week 0, non-con games that interest your fanbase......not schedule like it's 2012.

[Stanger86]

My sources say there is little interest from either side at this time in moving the UNK at SMSU game from Oct. 5 up to Week 0. Worth noting that UNK hosts NWMSU in Week 1.

[laker]

For the coaches....in the next schedule model vote....let's schedule for 2025..future thinking, Week 0, non-con games that interest your fanbase......not schedule like it's 2012.

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If Prince were alive, he would change the date.