West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Said by a fan of a team with four players 6'8", 220 pounds plus!!

Shocking to point out that a player like IUP's Daddy Ugbede... .700 from the field, over .700 from free throw line and hit the boards like no body's business...but didn't shoot the 3 (0 for 0 in his IUP career!) so WLU would have ZERO interest in even having him on their roster!!

6'8" and 220 is much different than 6'8" and 270.

I think Cobo was around 6'9" and 220 lb by his senior year but 220 is pretty thin on a 6'9" frame.

The guys in the Gary Edwards era at IUP were like defensive linemen.

[Columbuseer]

Said by a fan of a team with four players 6'8", 220 pounds plus!!

Shocking to point out that a player like IUP's Daddy Ugbede... .700 from the field, over .700 from free throw line and hit the boards like no body's business...but didn't shoot the 3 (0 for 0 in his IUP career!) so WLU would have ZERO interest in even having him on their roster!!

Fortunately, it is still a team game. Every style has strengths and vulnerabilities.
Ugbede averaged 12 points a game. Iup averaged 1.13 ppp during that season. Outstanding for team with inside game, but below 1.25 range of nwmsu and wlu over multiple years. In a given game, any player can put up big numbers, like Ernst of Malone in regional, with Tradition post moves, great mobility and over 30 points.
but Malone faded in second half, despite atypical wlu brain cramps in the waning moments..
I agree with iupbig. 6-9 and 220 can be a very mobile player.

[boatcapt]

6'8" and 220 is much different than 6'8" and 270.

I think Cobo was around 6'9" and 220 lb by his senior year but 220 is pretty thin on a 6'9" frame.

The guys in the Gary Edwards era at IUP were like defensive linemen.

Never seriously ever said I wanted a 6'8", 270 guy just as I never said I wanted WLU to scrap their current style in favor of a low post, back to the basket offense. What I did say is that WLU needs to develop a secondary offense that is more inside focused for those times when our outside game is either A. not clicking or B. our opponent is capable of denying us our outside shots. Also, in the defensive end it seems logical to have a big capable of standing up to bigs that are dominating inside (i.e. Mercyhurst, Ship, etc). As I said, regular season, it's not often a concern...but as WLU progresses further in the NCAA tourney, the prospect of facing a big that is capable of defeating what we throw at him become greater and greater.

Worth noting, Winston Salem (our first opponent) has 6'9", 250 pound Rasheen Merlin, 6'8", 240 Cyille Diop and 6'7", 205 Shamon Jackson to throw at our collections of bigs...Next night we face an ESU team that could throw 6'10", 240 pound Ryan Smith, 6'8", 240 Zach Sabol and 6'6", 255 Cam Byers at us. WLU will defend these players with 6'7", 195 Elija Watson, 6'6", 205 Ben Sarson and 6'5", 205 Marlon Moore. Height and weight do not make a good player and these guys may be nothing more but given our size disparity, we better hope we hit the ground running and shoot at least .450+ from 3 in both games.

[boatcapt]

Fortunately, it is still a team game. Every style has strengths and vulnerabilities.
Ugbede averaged 12 points a game. Iup averaged 1.13 ppp during that season. Outstanding for team with inside game, but below 1.25 range of nwmsu and wlu over multiple years. In a given game, any player can put up big numbers, like Ernst of Malone in regional, with Tradition post moves, great mobility and over 30 points.
but Malone faded in second half, despite atypical wlu brain cramps in the waning moments..
I agree with iupbig. 6-9 and 220 can be a very mobile player.

Every style does have vulnerabilities. IMHO, truly elite teams antisipate this and have a plan to react on those rare nights when either their primary style is just not clicking or the other team has their number and is capable of shutting them down. Play harder and do better doesn't seem like much of a strategy.

[Columbuseer]

Never seriously ever said I wanted a 6'8", 270 guy just as I never said I wanted WLU to scrap their current style in favor of a low post, back to the basket offense. What I did say is that WLU needs to develop a secondary offense that is more inside focused for those times when our outside game is either A. not clicking or B. our opponent is capable of denying us our outside shots. Also, in the defensive end it seems logical to have a big capable of standing up to bigs that are dominating inside (i.e. Mercyhurst, Ship, etc). As I said, regular season, it's not often a concern...but as WLU progresses further in the NCAA tourney, the prospect of facing a big that is capable of defeating what we throw at him become greater and greater.

Worth noting, Winston Salem (our first opponent) has 6'9", 250 pound Rasheen Merlin, 6'8", 240 Cyille Diop and 6'7", 205 Shamon Jackson to throw at our collections of bigs...Next night we face an ESU team that could throw 6'10", 240 pound Ryan Smith, 6'8", 240 Zach Sabol and 6'6", 255 Cam Byers at us. WLU will defend these players with 6'7", 195 Elija Watson, 6'6", 205 Ben Sarson and 6'5", 205 Marlon Moore. Height and weight do not make a good player and these guys may be nothing more but given our size disparity, we better hope we hit the ground running and shoot at least .450+ from 3 in both games.

The best player you mentioned was ryan smith. Tragically, he lost his valiant battle with cancer and passed away. So sad.

[Columbuseer]

The hillsdale game may be indicative of how wlu plays against tall half court teams. 6-8 Brown had to guard Patrick outside, who scored layups at will. 80% FT shooters were missing due to fatigue.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Never seriously ever said I wanted a 6'8", 270 guy just as I never said I wanted WLU to scrap their current style in favor of a low post, back to the basket offense. What I did say is that WLU needs to develop a secondary offense that is more inside focused for those times when our outside game is either A. not clicking or B. our opponent is capable of denying us our outside shots. Also, in the defensive end it seems logical to have a big capable of standing up to bigs that are dominating inside (i.e. Mercyhurst, Ship, etc). As I said, regular season, it's not often a concern...but as WLU progresses further in the NCAA tourney, the prospect of facing a big that is capable of defeating what we throw at him become greater and greater.

Worth noting, Winston Salem (our first opponent) has 6'9", 250 pound Rasheen Merlin, 6'8", 240 Cyille Diop and 6'7", 205 Shamon Jackson to throw at our collections of bigs...Next night we face an ESU team that could throw 6'10", 240 pound Ryan Smith, 6'8", 240 Zach Sabol and 6'6", 255 Cam Byers at us. WLU will defend these players with 6'7", 195 Elija Watson, 6'6", 205 Ben Sarson and 6'5", 205 Marlon Moore. Height and weight do not make a good player and these guys may be nothing more but given our size disparity, we better hope we hit the ground running and shoot at least .450+ from 3 in both games.

Ryan Smith passed away.

[boatcapt]

The hillsdale game may be indicative of how wlu plays against tall half court teams. 6-8 Brown had to guard Patrick outside, who scored layups at will. 80% FT shooters were missing due to fatigue.

Well...I would note that Tavon Brown was a 50% shooter who averaged 7 PPG over the course of the season at Hillsdale. Vs WLU he shot 50% and scored 5 points. For his part Pat Robinson was a 53% shooter who averaged 20 PPG on the season. This game he shot 44% from the field and scored 18 points. Except for Robinson's shooting %, seems like both players played to their season average.

[Columbuseer]

Hillsdale replay is worth watching again. Very informative if one is interested in nuances of playing big teams.They had 3 6-8 mobile guys who averaged 29, 29 and 32 mins per game. 6-8 Cartier was consensus all american and was gmac male athlete of the year across all sports. Played old school inside game but also had 3 pt shooters. Very well coached. Could not ask for a sterner inside test for wlu.
The points per possession shows effectiveness of wlu defense, holding them to 0.83 ppp.



Season. Versus wlu

fg% 51% 43%
3fg% 36% 25%
ft% 70% 39%
PPP 1.14 0.83

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Said by a fan of a team with four players 6'8", 220 pounds plus!!

Shocking to point out that a player like IUP's Daddy Ugbede... .700 from the field, over .700 from free throw line and hit the boards like no body's business...but didn't shoot the 3 (0 for 0 in his IUP career!) so WLU would have ZERO interest in even having him on their roster!!

Daddy Ugbede was an incredibly skilled offensive player. Biggest hands I've ever seen. He was so powerful and agile ... just about impossible to guard. His spin moves would draw so many fouls ... and he was an incredible FT shooter for a post player.

His knock was staying on the floor. Joe had to really watch how he played him because of his constant foul trouble. If they could have got 34 mpg out of him his stats would have been insane. He had a great career here.

[boatcapt]

Daddy Ugbede was an incredibly skilled offensive player. Biggest hands I've ever seen. He was so powerful and agile ... just about impossible to guard. His spin moves would draw so many fouls ... and he was an incredible FT shooter for a post player.

His knock was staying on the floor. Joe had to really watch how he played him because of his constant foul trouble. If they could have got 34 mpg out of him his stats would have been insane. He had a great career here.

All true. But he didn't shoot the 3 so apparently, WLU would not have wanted him...and if he did somehow make it onto the team, he'd never play because he doesn't "stretch the floor."

[IUPbigINDIANS]

All true. But he didn't shoot the 3 so apparently, WLU would not have wanted him...and if he did somehow make it onto the team, he'd never play because he doesn't "stretch the floor."

Lol

[Columbuseer]

All true. But he didn't shoot the 3 so apparently, WLU would not have wanted him...and if he did somehow make it onto the team, he'd never play because he doesn't "stretch the floor."

I agree that he would not play much in wlu system. Wlu only recruits complete players who are great shooters.
Based on his stats,

• No 3 point threat.
• assist to turnover ratio of 0.4
• average fouls of 3+ while playing only 19 mins
• fouled out 5 of the 27 games
• Don't know if he could play at wlu pace

For other teams playing more traditional positions , he would be a great fit. Skill set seemed to be unbalanced, skewed toward inside offensive gane.

Every team strives to get players who fit their philosophy.

[boatcapt]

I agree that he would not play much in wlu system. Wlu only recruits complete players who are great shooters.
Based on his stats,

• No 3 point threat.
• assist to turnover ratio of 0.4
• average fouls of 3+ while playing only 19 mins
• fouled out 5 of the 27 games
• Don't know if he could play at wlu pace

For other teams playing more traditional positions , he would be a great fit. Skill set seemed to be unbalanced, skewed toward inside offensive gane.

Every team strives to get players who fit their philosophy.

Fact that WLU would not even entertain for a moment having a player like this on their roster speaks volumes about the "completeness" of WLU's game.

WLU plays at a very high level within their style niche. This niche is usually enough to get them through the MEC at the top of the conference and periodically through to the Regional Champ game. But there does seem to be a wall that they can't get over.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Fact that WLU would not even entertain for a moment having a player like this on their roster speaks volumes about the "completeness" of WLU's game.

WLU plays at a very high level within their style niche. This niche is usually enough to get them through the MEC at the top of the conference and periodically through to the Regional Champ game. But there does seem to be a wall that they can't get over.

If that 14-15 team had Daddy Ugbede it would have been WL in the national title game instead of IUP.

The roadblock seems to be once you get to those elite teams ... you aren't scoring 130 ppg.

When you look at recent WL losses in March:

14-15 (IUP) - WL scored 74 points
15-16 (LM) - WL scored 102 but still lost
16-17 (WJ) - WL scored 95 but still lost (albeit to an MEC team)
17-18 (Ship) - WL scored 66 points and gave up 98
18-19 (Mercyhurst) - WL scored 70 points
19-20 - No Tournament
20-21 (NWMT) - WL scored 77 points


So, add it up and in those losses WL is scoring (on average) 80.6 ppg -- nearly, what 25 ppg less than its typical season average. In the three losses versus PSAC teams, the average dropped to 70.0 ppg.