Honestly, when this topic inevitably pops up again on the PSAC board in 6 months, I'll be sure to hop back over here and invite you all to join the discussion.
Nothing that's been said here hasn't been suggested from PSAC posters. In fact, the whole "free ticket" idea has happened before at a couple schools. IUP does it once or twice for basketball games a year. That helps to a degree, but no school is going to give away free tickets to every game like that. Multiple schools in the PSAC, IUP included, have done something where you can have one paying adult bring in as many children under 12 as they want for free. That never worked at IUP. Maybe something will work at an MEC school, but none of those things have changed anything in the PSAC.
I was part of a student group at IUP that spent a lot of time, energy, and effort trying to boost student attendance. Some things we did worked, early on at least. Blast advertising on social media and things. That grabs people initially, but for football, especially when the weather gets colder you aren't ever going to succeed in bringing people in.
We held multiple focus groups where we tried to identify what the real issues were, and the common theme was that D2 wasn't D1. While you may have chosen your college after high school, you were raised as a fan of some D1 program since before you could walk, and it's tough to make that transition, especially at somewhere that doesn't have the atmosphere.
When you're talking student attendance, and I know that's not the only part of the discussion, but attendance is down at the Division 1 level too. It's true. Look it up. Students would rather sit in their dorm or apartment and flip between 6 different games on Saturday than show up to their own.
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Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball
I like that idea Boat of giving high school athletes free passes. If you got 200 high school students in free what they spent on the concession would probably be more revenue than what you would receive in the gate admissions for a few that might show up for the game if paid. Plus free publicity for the school. A drawback and would probably have to be addressed would be from the current students who pay an athletic fee in their tuition. If the students have to pay the athletic fee and the high school students get free I see big problems!
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Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball
Originally posted by boatcapt View PostI agree in general. A DII is never going to "win" the fan base battle with a name D1. But beyond that, it seems like there is a huge disconnect between what most DII's do to market themselves locally and what even local HS's do. Most DII's are near some sort of small population center with a couple of others in the area. A successful DII should be targeting those population centers with gusto...they should partner with every chamber of commerse, VFW and Moose Lodge to promote their programs and get the local population to the games...every HS player of ANY sport should have a FREE ticket to every home game...Once at the game, people should have ample opportunity to tailgate WITH the schools ACTIVE involvement and support.
Are DII's going to always struggle to put butts in seats? Yea, most of the time they will. Bust it seems like most DII athletic departments have given up and have decided there is just nothing they can do.
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Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball
Originally posted by boatcapt View PostI don't trust DII attendance figures. WLU basketball is a prime example. I've been to games were it is very close to standing room only...official attendance in the box score the next day showed 500 people! There also doesn't seem to be any consistency with what a school counts as attendance. I recall a WVIAC school a number of years ago that reported attendance in the neighborhood of 5000 per game...that seemed to fly in the face of pictures of the stand which were largely empty (no where near 5000!). Turns out they were counting tickets given to a local fast food chain that were given away as part of a meal purchase.
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Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball
Originally posted by IUP24 View PostPeople don't show up to D2 games because people don't want to. It's that simple. It's not complicated. Like what was posted above, nobody identifies themselves with D2 schools. You think Grand Valley State football fans pull for the Lakers first? Above Michigan or Michigan State? Come on.
This topic of discussion has been going on for years on the PSAC Football side of the board. The fact is that people don't care. You'll never win a discussion with anybody that's not a religious D2 viewer when comparing products.
Consider this, the people on this message board are their respective schools biggest fans. And what, there's a handful of the same posters from the same schools that are frequent posters here. That tells you all you need to know.
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Are DII's going to always struggle to put butts in seats? Yea, most of the time they will. Bust it seems like most DII athletic departments have given up and have decided there is just nothing they can do.
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Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball
Originally posted by IUP24 View PostThe fact is that people don't care. You'll never win a discussion with anybody that's not a religious D2 viewer when comparing products.
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People don't show up to D2 games because people don't want to. It's that simple. It's not complicated. Like what was posted above, nobody identifies themselves with D2 schools. You think Grand Valley State football fans pull for the Lakers first? Above Michigan or Michigan State? Come on.
This topic of discussion has been going on for years on the PSAC Football side of the board. The fact is that people don't care. You'll never win a discussion with anybody that's not a religious D2 viewer when comparing products.
Consider this, the people on this message board are their respective schools biggest fans. And what, there's a handful of the same posters from the same schools that are frequent posters here. That tells you all you need to know.
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Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball
Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post"... rest of their game is often superior"
Huh? Low-end D1 is similar to, say, Top 15 D2. Top-end D1 teams would blow top-end D2 teams out of the arena.
Put up this year's Fairmont up against NC or Gonzaga. They lose by 40. Maybe more. Or WL vs WVU ... same result.
You may see the occasional miracle but the best D2 teams would 'maybe' be .500 in even the Horizon League. The jump is extreme ... especially to the P5.
We're all D2 fans but most of these guys are in D2 for a reason. The size, speed and depth would just wear D2 teams down very quickly.
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Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball
I don't trust DII attendance figures. WLU basketball is a prime example. I've been to games were it is very close to standing room only...official attendance in the box score the next day showed 500 people! There also doesn't seem to be any consistency with what a school counts as attendance. I recall a WVIAC school a number of years ago that reported attendance in the neighborhood of 5000 per game...that seemed to fly in the face of pictures of the stand which were largely empty (no where near 5000!). Turns out they were counting tickets given to a local fast food chain that were given away as part of a meal purchase.
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Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball
[QUOTE=Columbuseer;2041026]Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post"... rest of their game is often superior"
Huh? Low-end D1 is similar to, say, Top 15 D2. Top-end D1 teams would blow top-end D2 teams out of the arena.
Put up this year's Fairmont up against NC or Gonzaga. They lose by 40. Maybe more. Or WL vs WVU ... same result.
You may see the occasional miracle but the best D2 teams would 'maybe' be .500 in even the Horizon League. The jump is extreme ... especially to the P5.
We're all D2 fans but most of these guys are in D2 for a reason. The size, speed and depth would just wear D2 teams down very quickly.[/QUOTE
I agree with your statement on the elite d1 teams with great coaches. I just gave examples of non bottom d1 teams losing in exhibition. Iowa was 3rd in big 10 and finished #25 in AP. The advantages of d1 teams are undeniable. The vulnerabilities of some d1 teams are: they don't value every possession. They often don't play great team defense to teams who rotate the ball rapidly. D2 team needs to have a great 3pt shooting night to offset the dunks.
Pure speculation but I think many d1 fans think there is a huge gap between ANY d1 team and even the best d2 teams. and maybe they don't attend for that reason. Thinking that listing victories might help at least for top d2 teams. Probably a long shot.
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Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball
[QUOTE=IUPbigINDIANS;2041004]"... rest of their game is often superior"
Huh? Low-end D1 is similar to, say, Top 15 D2. Top-end D1 teams would blow top-end D2 teams out of the arena.
Put up this year's Fairmont up against NC or Gonzaga. They lose by 40. Maybe more. Or WL vs WVU ... same result.
You may see the occasional miracle but the best D2 teams would 'maybe' be .500 in even the Horizon League. The jump is extreme ... especially to the P5.
We're all D2 fans but most of these guys are in D2 for a reason. The size, speed and depth would just wear D2 teams down very quickly.[/QUOTE
I agree with your statement on the elite d1 teams with great coaches. I just gave examples of non bottom d1 teams losing in exhibition. Iowa was 3rd in big 10 and finished #25 in AP. The advantages of d1 teams are undeniable. The vulnerabilities of some d1 teams are: they don't value every possession. They often don't play great team defense to teams who rotate the ball rapidly. D2 team needs to have a great 3pt shooting night to offset the dunks.
Pure speculation but I think many d1 fans think there is a huge gap between ANY d1 team and even the best d2 teams. and maybe they don't attend for that reason. Thinking that listing victories might help at least for top d2 teams. Probably a long shot.
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Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball
"... rest of their game is often superior"
Huh? Low-end D1 is similar to, say, Top 15 D2. Top-end D1 teams would blow top-end D2 teams out of the arena.
Put up this year's Fairmont up against NC or Gonzaga. They lose by 40. Maybe more. Or WL vs WVU ... same result.
You may see the occasional miracle but the best D2 teams would 'maybe' be .500 in even the Horizon League. The jump is extreme ... especially to the P5.
We're all D2 fans but most of these guys are in D2 for a reason. The size, speed and depth would just wear D2 teams down very quickly.Last edited by IUPbigINDIANS; 04-03-2017, 07:48 PM.
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Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball
I wonder how D2 can pump up the attendance? They have a really good product in basketball, both in coaching and in team play, if the top teams in the MEC and PSAC are any indication.
If you ignore the the fact that the players are not quite as tall or quick as D1, the rest of their game is often superior.
The prices are much more family friendly.
Maybe advertising D2 victories over D1 teams in exhibition? I think a lot of folks think there is a huge drop off between D1 and top D2 schools.
Augustana beat Iowa in Nov 2015 (year they won national title).
Thomas Acquinas blew out St. Johns by 30 in 2015.
Findlay beat ohio State in 2006? (the season BEFORE findlay went unbeaten and won the national title). OSU had no answer for Marcus Parker a great point guard, who was just a little short for D1.
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Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball
Originally posted by KnightStalker View PostActually a few years ago BU did some upgrades to the seating that brought capacity down to 2200 which means capacity of 78 percent. But to add to your point, Davenport is out on various sports radio programs promoting BU each week and along with social media he pushes to get Knights Hall full. Actually think that if it wasn't for scheduling quirks this year (the good non-conference games were all on the road) the average attendance would have been much higher.
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Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball
Originally posted by ctrabs74 View PostBellarmine ranked seventh in D2 in home attendance (1,721 per game; Knights Hall seats 3,000, so that's a capacity of 57.38 percent).
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