PSAC WEST

[bballfan03]

I guess I'm old school and apparently part of a dying breed. Give me the 'live' game anytime. I hate watching on TV or the computer. Especially the computer. No patience.

I like watching the nuances of the game ... hearing the crowd reactions, etc. You just miss so much on the TV feed. Obviously if I lived far away it would be a different story. My kids have also grown up in the KCAC and enjoy the games.

IUP made some big changes to the game-day experience. The bar is now out in the concourse. The Hilton (about 50' away) has become a huge hangout before and after games (for the older crowd). Music is better. The games in the KCAC when it's crowded just feel like an event. The crowds have been much more engaged this year -- and more young(ish). The Cal game was as loud as I've heard the KCAC in 6 years. When they made the big comeback and then took off the place was jumping. The crowd went after Brent Pegram hard. Danny Sancomb, too. That's homecourt advantage. That's part of the reason Joe will only play night games. They have it flowing right now. This is a likable team unlike some past editions. For the first time in years they are getting a boost from the home crowd. We'll see if it lasts.

I guess I grew up in a much different PSAC. In my era Cal would pack it ... Clarion, too. Edinboro used to always get big crowds (at least any game I went to). Times change.

UPJ should be booming. They have a small city to draw from and ... it's Johnstown. Not exactly much to do in the winter up there. I do get UPJ is pretty disconnected from the local yocals.

Schools can draw but it takes some work. To get the average fan in the building it takes more than just basketball.

I love my Knights, but am perfectly content watching the game on a big screen, on a comfortable couch (rather than wooden bleachers), and not having to pay $5 to either get pissed off at the underachieving team or the poor officiating.. often both lol

What really sealed the deal though was when the plush seats were EMPTY and after a few minutes into the game a friend and I moved down to them. Some guy came running at us and told us we couldn't sit there unless we had season tickets. He then said we either go back up or hed toss us. Whoa buddy! We went back to the bleachers... the block of 3 rows of 8 seats that were empty when we tried moving... remained empty the entire game. But Bodyguard Billy sat at the bottom of the stairs the entire game making sure only season ticket holders sat there. Youd think when you only have truly about 200 showing up.. youd want to pack the plush seats to make it look more crowded. If the people aren't there by half, they're not coming. And if they do, then you move. It was just quite a joke.

[Ship69]

A comment he types into a message board . . . ostensibly using an electronic device. ; )

[Not disagreeing with the point--just savoring the irony.]

I use electronic devices quite often, but I can get along without them just fine. I rarely look at my phone when I'm outside the house and almost never when I'm with people or eating. It amazes me how involved people can get in doing nothing these days.

[WarriorVoice]

I get the logic but the gate really takes a hit. The attendance numbers in the PSAC this year (as usual) are horrendous. Night games draw better. At some places, significantly better.

Of course, some of our schools could play at 2 a.m., 3 p.m. or 7:30 p.m. and it wouldn't make a difference. Generally, 3 p.m. starts on Saturday are just competing against far too many other activities. The numbers speak for themselves. More behinds in the seats equal more concession money, etc. Far too many schools in our league treat these programs as if they are high school teams.

Men's average attendance this year ... these figures are beyond embarrassing:

IUP	1,649
Gannon	755
Shepherd	478
Mercyhurst	469
West Chester	464
Edinboro	398
SRU	395
Millersville	354
ESU	341
Kutztown	330
UPJ	284
Bloomsburg	282
California	259
Shippensburg	254
Mansfield	226
Clarion	145
Seton Hill	144
Lock Haven	130

I get your point, but the schedule is made for the school and the athletes, not the fans...

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I get your point, but the schedule is made for the school and the athletes, not the fans...

That's mistake No. 1 most schools are making. Without fans there is no money. No excitement. No buzz. No home-court advantage.

You really think players like playing in front of 'packed houses' of 125 people at 3 p.m. who are all about 75 years old and want to make the early bird at the senior center by 4:30 p.m.? We all see these 3 p.m. games. Atmosphere-wise they are like watching two dudes play chess in the park. Several coaches have told me over the years they'd basically rather have gum in their hair than play a 3 p.m. game at Lock Haven.

The host school sets the time. It's their choice, obviously, but the 3 p.m. time slot isn't working at all for the gate/revenue at just about every school. The 1 p.m. women's games are even worse. I've turned on games and counted 12 people in the whole gym.

Is what it is. IUP is the only school that will only play night games. Gannon and Shippensburg play several Saturday night games a year. Mercyhurst sold out its night game against Gannon two weeks ago. The only fact that remains is about this time every year I post these same God-awful attendance numbers. If schools don't want to change that's their right.

Fact: 16 of the 18 teams in the league are drawing less than 478 a game. That's horrendous. No other way to spin it. Even worse: 8 of 18 are getting less than 284 per game. That's just pathetic. Friday night high school games dramatically out-draw just about every team in this league. The numbers in the PSAC stink. That's the true bottom line. Awful.

Don't get me wrong. When the team I cheer for goes on the road and plays in an empty gym ... it only helps the visiting team. I think an earlier poster nailed when he said most schools just don't care. It shows.

[Fightingscot82]

I get your point, but the schedule is made for the school and the athletes, not the fans...

Most of all, the employees who have to work at the games. I've been told that by no less than 3 PASSHE schools about kickoff times. "Do you really think its fair to make someone give up their entire Saturday? That's what happens with a 3pm kickoff." is a direct quote from one. How do you think Penn State athletics staff feel about games where the kickoff time is changed with less than a week's notice? Again - small thinking.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Most of all, the employees who have to work at the games. I've been told that by no less than 3 PASSHE schools about kickoff times. "Do you really think its fair to make someone give up their entire Saturday? That's what happens with a 3pm kickoff." is a direct quote from one. How do you think Penn State athletics staff feel about games where the kickoff time is changed with less than a week's notice? Again - small thinking.

They know that when they take the job.

[Ship69]

They know that when they take the job.

Agreed. As someone formerly in the news business who had to work countless night shifts, weekends, and holidays, I have trouble sympathizing with their plight. It comes with the territory.

[Fightingscot82]

They know that when they take the job.

I don't like the idea of last-minute gametime changes, but sticking with a 12pm kickoff because of staff Saturday plans is a cop out. Give them Monday off. For cripe's sake no matter things are the way they are.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Ten games left. We have some good races developing. IUP has a two-game lead in the West and, well, Shippensburg is already making arrangements to host the PSAC Tournament Final Four. Aside from the top spots (for now, anyway), there are several hot battles going on for seeding.

This past Saturday was kind of a dud in the schedule. It heats back up tomorrow night.

Shippensburg at Shepherd - The official first (PSAC) meeting in this new rivalry. The Red Raiders haven't been challenged much lately. They've been blowing everybody out. This could be a tough week. The Rams are first, followed by a weekend visit from East Stroudsburg. Shippensburg is better than both of them, but expect a spirited effort from both opponents. The Rams can be a tough out in Shepherdstown. Projecting a close one tomorrow in front of what should be a large crowd ... the Rams put up a big fight -- and Ship better shoot well -- but in the end the Red Raiders just have too much. Ship -8 (but, don't be shocked by an upset here)

Clarion at California - Can the Golden Eagles match the spirited effort they displayed at the KCAC? In reality, it really won't matter either way. But, it could make things a bit more entertaining. California is just a better team. The Golden Eagles have improved a good bit in the second half, but they won't score enough to keep up. Close for a bit, then the Vulcans drop the hammer. California -14

West Chester at Millersville - The Marauders are kind of hot right now. West Chester is in a coma. The past two weeks have been about impossible to predict either of these teams. Something is up in West Chester. Not sure what it is ... but something is up. The 'Ville extends the misery and gets a big home win. Marauders -5

Gannon at Slippery Rock - It gets no more entertaining than JR vs. KR. Oh wait, never mind. It's a new era in this rivalry. Unfortunately for the officials ... it's not a whole lot better. They will get a workout in this one. Kelvin Jefferson will experience the wonders of the infamous SRU scorers' table. Some say Morrow is haunted. Back to basketball, this is a huge game for both teams. The Golden Knights need a win to remain in Round 1 hosting contention. The Rock has won two in a row and star Micah Till is rounding in to form. Very tough game to call. It's hard to win in Morrow. You never know what might happen. SRU does just enough. Rock -3

Edinboro at Mercyhurst - The Lakers have lost two straight games -- both by double digits. They were humiliated in the Mon Valley this past weekend. The Fighting Scots making the short trip up I-79 may be the perfect cure. Edinboro has lost 8 straight, but oddly put a major scare in to Slippery Rock this past weekend. The Scots have shown they can score the ball (on occasion). Mercyhurt's offense has been in a deep funk. The Lakers win, but the Scots keep it somewhat close. Mercyhurst -11

Seton Hill at IUP - The Crimson Hawks tried to sleepwalk past Clarion. That's not going to happen twice. Especially not with this KCAC guest. The names and coaches have changed some, but, just a guess, Joe Lombardi is not a fan of Seton Hill. These two programs oddly have some not-so-good history. The Griffins best chance is if Ethan Porterfield gets two fouls again in the first minute of the game. If that happens, the Griffins can hang around for a bit. Look for a spirited start from IUP. Joe isn't going to want to see another lower team get confidence and stick around. Nathan Davis will get his 18-20 points, but IUP should put on a show. If there's one program Joe would run it up on ... this is it. Hawks -19

Bloomsburg at Kutztown - This might as well be a playoff game for the Huskies. In the mess of the PSAC East standings, a Bloomsburg win can have major implications. The Golden Bears really need this one after losing their past two. Flip a coin. Both look good some nights. Average at best on others. The coaches know one another very well. Take the home team. Kutztown -2

Mansfield at UPJ - On paper this should be a disaster. But, UPJ has a long history of putting up duds in such games. The Mounties can hang around a bit, but UPJ is just too deep. Mountain Cats. Big. UPJ -17

Lock Haven at East Stroudsburg - The Bald Eagles were on a tear. They've come back to Earth. Starting five for starting five, I like Lock Haven. But, add in the benches and overall ESU is better -- and much, much deeper. Catch the Bald Eagles on the wrong night and you will have a problem. But, ESU should tire them out in the second half. Warriors rebound from a dismal showing in Erie. ESU -9

[Golden89]

[Golden89]

That's mistake No. 1 most schools are making. Without fans there is no money. No excitement. No buzz. No home-court advantage.

You really think players like playing in front of 'packed houses' of 125 people at 3 p.m. who are all about 75 years old and want to make the early bird at the senior center by 4:30 p.m.? We all see these 3 p.m. games. Atmosphere-wise they are like watching two dudes play chess in the park. Several coaches have told me over the years they'd basically rather have gum in their hair than play a 3 p.m. game at Lock Haven.

The host school sets the time. It's their choice, obviously, but the 3 p.m. time slot isn't working at all for the gate/revenue at just about every school. The 1 p.m. women's games are even worse. I've turned on games and counted 12 people in the whole gym.

Is what it is. IUP is the only school that will only play night games. Gannon and Shippensburg play several Saturday night games a year. Mercyhurst sold out its night game against Gannon two weeks ago. The only fact that remains is about this time every year I post these same God-awful attendance numbers. If schools don't want to change that's their right.

Fact: 16 of the 18 teams in the league are drawing less than 478 a game. That's horrendous. No other way to spin it. Even worse: 8 of 18 are getting less than 284 per game. That's just pathetic. Friday night high school games dramatically out-draw just about every team in this league. The numbers in the PSAC stink. That's the true bottom line. Awful.

Don't get me wrong. When the team I cheer for goes on the road and plays in an empty gym ... it only helps the visiting team. I think an earlier poster nailed when he said most schools just don't care. It shows.

Gannon / Hurst had a great crowd at the MAC but the game was far from a sellout. I went to the Pitt / UNC game in the afternoon and purchased a ticket at the door at 7:20 and had no trouble finding an open seat.

[Sec10-A-14]

I love my Knights, but am perfectly content watching the game on a big screen, on a comfortable couch (rather than wooden bleachers), and not having to pay $5 to either get pissed off at the underachieving team or the poor officiating.. often both lol

What really sealed the deal though was when the plush seats were EMPTY and after a few minutes into the game a friend and I moved down to them. Some guy came running at us and told us we couldn't sit there unless we had season tickets. He then said we either go back up or hed toss us. Whoa buddy! We went back to the bleachers... the block of 3 rows of 8 seats that were empty when we tried moving... remained empty the entire game. But Bodyguard Billy sat at the bottom of the stairs the entire game making sure only season ticket holders sat there. Youd think when you only have truly about 200 showing up.. youd want to pack the plush seats to make it look more crowded. If the people aren't there by half, they're not coming. And if they do, then you move. It was just quite a joke.

What about the guy who paid $175 for his season ticket? (that's what I paid when I lived in Erie). Why should cheapies come in at @ a third the price? Just not fair or ethical..

[Fightingscot82]

What about the guy who paid $175 for his season ticket? (that's what I paid when I lived in Erie). Why should cheapies come in at @ a third the price? Just not fair or ethical..

It happens. I bought season tickets to RMU basketball this year and they're running a 2 for 1 deal for Saturday's game.

[IUPalum]

I love my Knights, but am perfectly content watching the game on a big screen, on a comfortable couch (rather than wooden bleachers), and not having to pay $5 to either get pissed off at the underachieving team or the poor officiating.. often both lol

What really sealed the deal though was when the plush seats were EMPTY and after a few minutes into the game a friend and I moved down to them. Some guy came running at us and told us we couldn't sit there unless we had season tickets. He then said we either go back up or hed toss us. Whoa buddy! We went back to the bleachers... the block of 3 rows of 8 seats that were empty when we tried moving... remained empty the entire game. But Bodyguard Billy sat at the bottom of the stairs the entire game making sure only season ticket holders sat there. Youd think when you only have truly about 200 showing up.. youd want to pack the plush seats to make it look more crowded. If the people aren't there by half, they're not coming. And if they do, then you move. It was just quite a joke.

Fair weather fan statement!!!

[IUPbigINDIANS]

What about the guy who paid $175 for his season ticket? (that's what I paid when I lived in Erie). Why should cheapies come in at @ a third the price? Just not fair or ethical..

The KCAC has struggled with this exact scenario for years. IUP has 'ushers' at the top of each section but they do absolutely nothing to control who sits where. The KCAC, in theory, is all reserved seats. Some, obviously, cost more than others. There is no general admission ... i.e. you get a ticket with a row and seat number. That said, hardly a game goes by when I don't have to toss somebody out of my seats. Nobody ever puts up a fight. They know they are in the wrong seat.

Now if it's a game I'm not actually attending or haven't given my tickets away ... I could care less who sits in them.