OT: D1

[Ship69]

You just proved my point. Your words were "and maybe we'll get to watch someone else other than the usual football factory suspects play for a championship once in a while." In the 4-team playoff, all that those "someone else" teams had to do was win one game. Those teams are never going beat a MIchigan like team in 3 consecutive weeks to reach the title game. In the 4-team format, they could do exactly what your hope is.

Certainly not to that extreme, but more of the CFP games have been closer to TCU-Georgia (non-competitive or blowouts) than they have been to Ohio State-Georgia (game on a razor's edge coming down to a couple plays).

Other than lining the pockets of the networks and universities, what specifically does creating a 12 team playoff actually accomplish? Because for teams 5-12, and this true every single season, they all had the opportunity to win the games necessary to be in the 4 team field during the season and they failed. The exception to that is this year, but I'm not willing to overhaul an entire format because of one outlier.

Every year is different. You don't know who is going to beat whom in a given year. TCU lucked out last year in facing Harbag and his usually clueless postseason preparation. Either OSU or Georgia would have smoked TCU in a first-round game. Your whole "every game matters scenario" has just been shattered by the Florida State scenario. The current system has also encouraged major teams to go lighter and lighter on their OOC schedules since there's no reason to play anyone good outside your league if 1 or 2 losses keeps you out of the playoff. A scenario such as we've just had in D2 Region One with a two-loss Kutztown team winning the region is almost unimaginable.

Obviously your record doesn't matter if your QB gets hurt or you fail whatever the perceived eye test is for that season. Ohio State was ranked ahead of Alabama and had a one-score loss to an unbeaten Michigan team. Georgia nearly ran through two unbeaten seasons in a league generally regarded as the toughest, was top-ranked most of the season, and lost by three to Alabama (in a championship game, not part of the regular season) and is completely out of the playoff. Oregon lost twice by three points to unbeaten Washington in two of the best games played this season. Why is that worse than Alabama's loss to Texas or that of Texas to Oklahoma, which didn't even reach the Big 12 title game. With lucrative TV contracts at several of the conferences and NIL in place, it's going to be harder for the 4-5 schools that have dominated the sport in recent years to stockpile players.

A 12-team playoff wouldn't always be a problem solver, but the current system is a farce.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Everybody said the same thing about NIL. And all NIL has done was prop up the dormant historical programs who now have the money to buy recruits and advantageously use the transfer portal as free agency (Texas, Florida State, USC - although hasn’t worked out yet in this sense, etc.), while seemingly treating 2nd and 3rd tier programs like feeder systems for the elites. It hasn’t exactly impacted anything in terms of helping the little guy. I can agree it’s created more competitive balance, but it’s done that amongst a small minority of schools who are otherwise rotating at the top anyways. Clemson takes a big step back, but Texas immediately enters the conversation. Rinse and repeat. You aren’t changing who is going to win championships at this level. Expand the playoff to 64 teams. Until NIL, the transfer portal, and other factors incorporating both topics are fixed, you are not going to have a system where those 2nd and 3rd tier teams can win a national championship in FBS football.

And is tacking 4 extra games onto the season good for the players? Because I thought that’s what everybody wanted.. What’s best for the players. Guys with NFL futures will and should opt out.

When it's all said and done ... behind closed doors ... nobody gives a blank about the players.

[IUP24]

The full playoff with conference champion auto-bid format will take a few years to adjust to - but should even the playing field for some of the 2nd and 3rd tier programs and conferences. Its much easier for a TCU to recruit when they have a chance for guaranteed access to the championship playoff than recruiting on "well if we have a perfect year, maybe we'll get an invite". Because even though we're past the BCS, we've somehow now left out an unbeaten P5 conference champion. Its antithetical to every other level of football and every other NCAA sport at any level.

Everybody said the same thing about NIL. And all NIL has done was prop up the dormant historical programs who now have the money to buy recruits and advantageously use the transfer portal as free agency (Texas, Florida State, USC - although hasn’t worked out yet in this sense, etc.), while seemingly treating 2nd and 3rd tier programs like feeder systems for the elites. It hasn’t exactly impacted anything in terms of helping the little guy. I can agree it’s created more competitive balance, but it’s done that amongst a small minority of schools who are otherwise rotating at the top anyways. Clemson takes a big step back, but Texas immediately enters the conversation. Rinse and repeat. You aren’t changing who is going to win championships at this level. Expand the playoff to 64 teams. Until NIL, the transfer portal, and other factors incorporating both topics are fixed, you are not going to have a system where those 2nd and 3rd tier teams can win a national championship in FBS football.

And is tacking 4 extra games onto the season good for the players? Because I thought that’s what everybody wanted.. What’s best for the players. Guys with NFL futures will and should opt out.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

If FSU wins that game 36-6 they are in the playoff and the SEC probably gets left out of the playoff. I don't think it's a referendum on the ACC.

Ultimately I think that is correct. FSU failed the eye test against Louisville and it cost them big time.

[Fightingscot82]

We normally agree, but I have a far different opinion on this topic.

People say they see too much of those football factories. Every one of those teams will be in the playoff every year now. You’re going to see more of them, not less. The Group of 5 representative will be a sacrificial lamb. Not sure anyone can disagree with that.

In the 12 team format, little TCU wouldn’t have made the run to the title. The chances one of those non-football factories actually plays for a championship is lesser now than before. In the scenario where a team like TCU gets into the playoff, they probably aren’t going on a run where they beat Alabama, Ohio State, and Georgia in consecutive weeks to reach the national title where they have to play Michigan or Clemson. Somebody would beat TCU before getting to the final game.

I never liked the creation of the playoff. I felt it widened the gap between the football factories and the non-football factories. It also devalued anything else in the postseason outside of the College Football Playoff. If this year was the old BCS, Michigan and Washington would’ve played for the BCS National Championship, and not one person could debate that. With 3 unbeatens, the two I mentioned would have had better resumes than the Noles. Nobody would’ve felt sorry for Ohio State and their fans. Instead, Ohio State would have the exciting opportunity to cap off a great year in the Rose Bowl. Now going to Pasadena or Glendale for a NY6 bowl is seen as an unjust consolation prize.

And to be fair, this is the only year where we’ve seen this many seemingly deserving teams at this stage. But I think people way too quickly forget how many of these college football playoff games have been grossly non-competitive. Most have not been one possession games. Many have been highly lopsided. I just don’t think at this level where the talent is so high that there are 12 teams who can actually go on a run and win a championship. It’s been proven most years that there aren’t even 4.

The full playoff with conference champion auto-bid format will take a few years to adjust to - but should even the playing field for some of the 2nd and 3rd tier programs and conferences. Its much easier for a TCU to recruit when they have a chance for guaranteed access to the championship playoff than recruiting on "well if we have a perfect year, maybe we'll get an invite". Because even though we're past the BCS, we've somehow now left out an unbeaten P5 conference champion. Its antithetical to every other level of football and every other NCAA sport at any level.

[Fightingscot82]

I just don't know what we're asking for with this expanded playoff. Consider what the bracket would look like, who would get in, where they would be seeded, etc.

Oregon had two shots to beat Washington and play their way in. They failed both times. What's the reward for Washington in that situation? To likely play a 3rd game against Oregon that they could lose? Almost impossible to beat a great team 3 times in a year.

Penn State would get in. Their resume is that they beat Iowa. They had the opportunity to play their way in and prove who they were against Ohio State and Michigan. They lost both games.

Same for Ohio State. The Michigan-Ohio State game WAS a playoff game. What reward is it for Michigan for winning if you grant OSU a rematch on a neutral field which the Buckeyes probably win?

The SEC title game WAS a playoff game.

These conversations are held, and ultimately settled, during a 12-game regular and conference championship weekend. Games are supposed to matter. The regular season is supposed to matter. Winning your conference is supposed to matter. The more and more we clamor for expanding the playoff because we want to make sure everybody who looked good should get in, the more we devalue what is supposed to be very meaningful and unique to college football.

Which is why automatic bids to conference champions has to be a major factor of the expanded playoff. Screw this arbitrary "best 12 teams" stuff. All that is just a purer form of those "well X beat Y who beat Z who beat A, therefore X is national champion" BS.

[IUP24]

TCU hardly made a run. They upset Michigan and were handed an epic thumping by Georgia in the title game. The true title game was Ohio State-Georgia. If you're going to have a playoff, you can't limit it to four teams. I'd be fine with not having a playoff, but that horse has long left the barn. Every other division in college football decides it championship on the field. There is no good reason for D1 not to do the same.

You just proved my point. Your words were "and maybe we'll get to watch someone else other than the usual football factory suspects play for a championship once in a while." In the 4-team playoff, all that those "someone else" teams had to do was win one game. Those teams are never going beat a MIchigan like team in 3 consecutive weeks to reach the title game. In the 4-team format, they could do exactly what your hope is.

Certainly not to that extreme, but more of the CFP games have been closer to TCU-Georgia (non-competitive or blowouts) than they have been to Ohio State-Georgia (game on a razor's edge coming down to a couple plays).

Other than lining the pockets of the networks and universities, what specifically does creating a 12 team playoff actually accomplish? Because for teams 5-12, and this true every single season, they all had the opportunity to win the games necessary to be in the 4 team field during the season and they failed. The exception to that is this year, but I'm not willing to overhaul an entire format because of one outlier.

[Ship69]

We normally agree, but I have a far different opinion on this topic.

People say they see too much of those football factories. Every one of those teams will be in the playoff every year now. You’re going to see more of them, not less. The Group of 5 representative will be a sacrificial lamb. Not sure anyone can disagree with that.

In the 12 team format, little TCU wouldn’t have made the run to the title. The chances one of those non-football factories actually plays for a championship is lesser now than before. In the scenario where a team like TCU gets into the playoff, they probably aren’t going on a run where they beat Alabama, Ohio State, and Georgia in consecutive weeks to reach the national title where they have to play Michigan or Clemson. Somebody would beat TCU before getting to the final game.

I never liked the creation of the playoff. I felt it widened the gap between the football factories and the non-football factories. It also devalued anything else in the postseason outside of the College Football Playoff. If this year was the old BCS, Michigan and Washington would’ve played for the BCS National Championship, and not one person could debate that. With 3 unbeatens, the two I mentioned would have had better resumes than the Noles. Nobody would’ve felt sorry for Ohio State and their fans. Instead, Ohio State would have the exciting opportunity to cap off a great year in the Rose Bowl. Now going to Pasadena or Glendale for a NY6 bowl is seen as an unjust consolation prize.

And to be fair, this is the only year where we’ve seen this many seemingly deserving teams at this stage. But I think people way too quickly forget how many of these college football playoff games have been grossly non-competitive. Most have not been one possession games. Many have been highly lopsided. I just don’t think at this level where the talent is so high that there are 12 teams who can actually go on a run and win a championship. It’s been proven most years that there aren’t even 4.

TCU hardly made a run. They upset Michigan and were handed an epic thumping by Georgia in the title game. The true title game was Ohio State-Georgia. If you're going to have a playoff, you can't limit it to four teams. I'd be fine with not having a playoff, but that horse has long left the barn. Every other division in college football decides it championship on the field. There is no good reason for D1 not to do the same.

[IUP24]

Well, Florida State won every game they played, so apparently the regular season didn't matter for them. They basically were kept home by the dreaded "eye test." They beat a ranked team playing a third-string true freshman QB. Oregon lost to Washington twice, but who at this point is to say that they're not in the category of some of the playoff teams? Why is Ohio State's loss to Michigan apparently worse than Alabama's loss to Georgia? I certainly don't think a 12-team playoff is going to ruin D1 football as we know it. And maybe we'll get to watch someone else other than the usual football factory suspects play for a championship once in a while.

We normally agree, but I have a far different opinion on this topic.

People say they see too much of those football factories. Every one of those teams will be in the playoff every year now. You’re going to see more of them, not less. The Group of 5 representative will be a sacrificial lamb. Not sure anyone can disagree with that.

In the 12 team format, little TCU wouldn’t have made the run to the title. The chances one of those non-football factories actually plays for a championship is lesser now than before. In the scenario where a team like TCU gets into the playoff, they probably aren’t going on a run where they beat Alabama, Ohio State, and Georgia in consecutive weeks to reach the national title where they have to play Michigan or Clemson. Somebody would beat TCU before getting to the final game.

I never liked the creation of the playoff. I felt it widened the gap between the football factories and the non-football factories. It also devalued anything else in the postseason outside of the College Football Playoff. If this year was the old BCS, Michigan and Washington would’ve played for the BCS National Championship, and not one person could debate that. With 3 unbeatens, the two I mentioned would have had better resumes than the Noles. Nobody would’ve felt sorry for Ohio State and their fans. Instead, Ohio State would have the exciting opportunity to cap off a great year in the Rose Bowl. Now going to Pasadena or Glendale for a NY6 bowl is seen as an unjust consolation prize.

And to be fair, this is the only year where we’ve seen this many seemingly deserving teams at this stage. But I think people way too quickly forget how many of these college football playoff games have been grossly non-competitive. Most have not been one possession games. Many have been highly lopsided. I just don’t think at this level where the talent is so high that there are 12 teams who can actually go on a run and win a championship. It’s been proven most years that there aren’t even 4.

[Ship69]

I just don't know what we're asking for with this expanded playoff. Consider what the bracket would look like, who would get in, where they would be seeded, etc.

Oregon had two shots to beat Washington and play their way in. They failed both times. What's the reward for Washington in that situation? To likely play a 3rd game against Oregon that they could lose? Almost impossible to beat a great team 3 times in a year.

Penn State would get in. Their resume is that they beat Iowa. They had the opportunity to play their way in and prove who they were against Ohio State and Michigan. They lost both games.

Same for Ohio State. The Michigan-Ohio State game WAS a playoff game. What reward is it for Michigan for winning if you grant OSU a rematch on a neutral field which the Buckeyes probably win?

The SEC title game WAS a playoff game.

These conversations are held, and ultimately settled, during a 12-game regular and conference championship weekend. Games are supposed to matter. The regular season is supposed to matter. Winning your conference is supposed to matter. The more and more we clamor for expanding the playoff because we want to make sure everybody who looked good should get in, the more we devalue what is supposed to be very meaningful and unique to college football.

Well, Florida State won every game they played, so apparently the regular season didn't matter for them. They basically were kept home by the dreaded "eye test." They beat a ranked team playing a third-string true freshman QB. Oregon lost to Washington twice, but who at this point is to say that they're not in the category of some of the playoff teams? Why is Ohio State's loss to Michigan apparently worse than Alabama's loss to Georgia? I certainly don't think a 12-team playoff is going to ruin D1 football as we know it. And maybe we'll get to watch someone else other than the usual football factory suspects play for a championship once in a while.

[IUP24]

Not at all sure Alabama is better than Oregon or Ohio State right now. I guess we'll find out if Washington gets hammered in the playoff. Michigan will probably try to win without passing and get beaten again. Harbag has been a terrible bowl coach. This fiasco is the perfect illustration of why the 12-team playoff is needed. You cannot leave an unbeaten P5 championship team out of the playoff. Texas beating Alabama screwed the selection committee because there was no way they could jump Alabama into the mix without including Texas.

I just don't know what we're asking for with this expanded playoff. Consider what the bracket would look like, who would get in, where they would be seeded, etc.

Oregon had two shots to beat Washington and play their way in. They failed both times. What's the reward for Washington in that situation? To likely play a 3rd game against Oregon that they could lose? Almost impossible to beat a great team 3 times in a year.

Penn State would get in. Their resume is that they beat Iowa. They had the opportunity to play their way in and prove who they were against Ohio State and Michigan. They lost both games.

Same for Ohio State. The Michigan-Ohio State game WAS a playoff game. What reward is it for Michigan for winning if you grant OSU a rematch on a neutral field which the Buckeyes probably win?

The SEC title game WAS a playoff game.

These conversations are held, and ultimately settled, during a 12-game regular and conference championship weekend. Games are supposed to matter. The regular season is supposed to matter. Winning your conference is supposed to matter. The more and more we clamor for expanding the playoff because we want to make sure everybody who looked good should get in, the more we devalue what is supposed to be very meaningful and unique to college football.

[IUP24]

It's not if they are putting the four best teams in.

Alabama would slaughter FSU right now.

It's another sign what they think of the ACC.

If FSU wins that game 36-6 they are in the playoff and the SEC probably gets left out of the playoff. I don't think it's a referendum on the ACC.

[IUP24]

I don’t know about that. The first playoff had a contested spot for the 4th team between OSU, TCU, and Baylor which ended in OSU’s favor based off of some combo of having an extra win, being sole conference champ, and the last-week beating they gave Wisconsin. 2017 saw an undefeated UCF squad left out in favor of a qualitatively quite good Alabama team with a pretty flimsy résumé (not a conference champ and their best wins were a pair of 8-4 teams). 2020 saw a Notre Dame team that actually had an okay résumé but probably wasn’t qualitatively one of the four best and got pasted by Clemson in their ACC championship game rematch picked over undefeated Cincy. Subjectively I think the CFP has gotten it right more often than not (I personally feel the 2017 Bama pick was defensible but the 2020 Notre Dame pick was less so) but I don’t think you can say every decision has been easy.

There has not ever been a situation where you had this many teams with 0-1 loss teams at the end. It's a unique situation, made even more unique because of the situation with Jordan Travis' injury for Florida State. I agree that they've mostly gotten it right.

This was going to go one of two ways today and there could have been a justifiable outrage regardless of which direction it went.

All those other years you mentioned were situations where you are basically splitting hairs between teams for the final spot. This is the only year where you had what you had following the conference championship.

[Fightingscot82]

Not at all sure Alabama is better than Oregon or Ohio State right now. I guess we'll find out if Washington gets hammered in the playoff. Michigan will probably try to win without passing and get beaten again. Harbag has been a terrible bowl coach. This fiasco is the perfect illustration of why the 12-team playoff is needed. You cannot leave an unbeaten P5 championship team out of the playoff. Texas beating Alabama screwed the selection committee because there was no way they could jump Alabama into the mix without including Texas.

Agree with you for three reasons:

1) ANYTHING can happen any game.

2) There's no point in differentiating P5 & G5 if you're not going to include an undefeated P5 champion.

3) Really there should just be a full playoff with no less than 12 teams where conference champions get automatic bids and some bullsh*t committee can decide on who else participates and how they're seeded.

[IUPNation]

I wouldn’t say that. If the goal is to put the four best teams in, I don’t think you can argue that Florida State belongs without their quarterback. I do feel really bad for them.

Alabamastan barely beat Auburn.