PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Horror Child]

I think the highest priority for the state should be determining a per-student funding rate for the different classifications instead of arguing big arbitrary appropriation figures. Here is how it shook out for 2022-23 per student:

Thaddeus Stevens: $15,260 per student
Lincoln: $10,417 per student

PASSHE: $6,925 per student
Pitt: $5,876 per student
Temple: $4,940 per student
Penn State: $2,743 per student

Numbers are the 2022-23 state appropriation and the fall 22 enrollment for each. Penn State's appropriation doesn't include all the agriculture and extension funds they get to do non-college stuff as our state A&M university.

My argument has always been that PASSHE (and Thaddeus Stevens) funding and tuition should be tied to the federal Pell Grant program so that the highest Pell Grant covers PASSHE tuition & fees. The PHEAA grant funding model should be reversed so the highest grants go to those attending PASSHE, not those attending private colleges, so that the PHEAA grant covers the lowest level of room & board. That way the neediest students can attend for free. Pitt and Penn State can start fundraising for their endowments to cover scholarships instead of professorships and department operating funds if they want to attract these students. State-related funding should be half that of PASSHE. By and large they have fundraising capacity to make up the difference and beyond Temple they're just using branch campuses to farm out the average students who would otherwise be attending PASSHE schools but are willing to pay more for the brand name logo on their diploma.

So some students value the Penn State, Pitt or Temple name on their diploma? One might deduce that employers do as well. Or government officials who fund those institutions.

When will PASSHE or PennWest have a name brand that becomes desired?

[Fightingscot82]

I might be weird, but I have a certain fascination with what people are making when I'm helping foot the bill.

Its all searchable anyway.

watch.pa.gov/employees/Pages/Employee-Salaries.aspx

[Ship69]

I think that was their rationale at the time - but it also proved to be somewhat untrue as a) Penn State employees are not state employees, and b) we learned his base salary paid by the university was small but he received seven figure compensation through Nike and other program ventures.

Patriot News/PennLive has a weird fascination with state employee compensation. They still make a huge deal out of their annual list of state employees making $100,000 a year. That is a nice round number but beyond Boomers that income isn't the elite number it used to be. A PA State Police officer makes that much in year 13. Imagine living in rural PA being in your mid 30s making six figures with their cost of living.

I might be weird, but I have a certain fascination with what people are making when I'm helping foot the bill.

[Ship69]

My memory tells me he was referred to as "the highest-paid state employee." FS82 can tell me if that was an accurate description or not. A little bit off-topic but I always think it's interesting how people tend to look at government expenditures as $$ down the drain. The fact is that Paterno created a billion-dollar industry. How much revenue accrued to the state as a result of his life's work?

He made Penn State football a lot bigger, but it was already a pretty substantial property before he arrived. And huge TV contracts have certainly poured a lot of money into the kitty.

[WarriorVoice]

I think there's a lesson to be learned here. If you can't speak to that, you probably shouldn't. Not on the PSAC D2 board, anyway.

Yeah. I'll do that right after you do. Who the hell are you to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't say on a discussion board?!

[Fightingscot82]

My memory tells me he was referred to as "the highest-paid state employee." FS82 can tell me if that was an accurate description or not. A little bit off-topic but I always think it's interesting how people tend to look at government expenditures as $$ down the drain. The fact is that Paterno created a billion-dollar industry. How much revenue accrued to the state as a result of his life's work?

I think that was their rationale at the time - but it also proved to be somewhat untrue as a) Penn State employees are not state employees, and b) we learned his base salary paid by the university was small but he received seven figure compensation through Nike and other program ventures.

Patriot News/PennLive has a weird fascination with state employee compensation. They still make a huge deal out of their annual list of state employees making $100,000 a year. That is a nice round number but beyond Boomers that income isn't the elite number it used to be. A PA State Police officer makes that much in year 13. Imagine living in rural PA being in your mid 30s making six figures with their cost of living.

[iupgroundhog]

Well, I doubt there was that much interest in, say, a math professor's salary. When there is that much money going into a program, people are naturally curious about who is getting what.

My memory tells me he was referred to as "the highest-paid state employee." FS82 can tell me if that was an accurate description or not. A little bit off-topic but I always think it's interesting how people tend to look at government expenditures as $$ down the drain. The fact is that Paterno created a billion-dollar industry. How much revenue accrued to the state as a result of his life's work?

[Fightingscot82]

Another good thing for PASSHE that deserves recognition: PASSHE also requested $30 million (outside the standard appropriation) to help pay down construction debt at the PennWest campuses that is weighing down their budget. PASSHE asked for $30 million and the Senate Republican Majority Caucus bumped up the amount to $65.4 million. That's HUGE and hopefully can allow the PennWest venture to focus on growth & development instead of finding the last few places to cut into the bone just to balance the budget.

[IUPNation]

I think the highest priority for the state should be determining a per-student funding rate for the different classifications instead of arguing big arbitrary appropriation figures. Here is how it shook out for 2022-23 per student:

Thaddeus Stevens: $15,260 per student
Lincoln: $10,417 per student

PASSHE: $6,925 per student
Pitt: $5,876 per student
Temple: $4,940 per student
Penn State: $2,743 per student

Numbers are the 2022-23 state appropriation and the fall 22 enrollment for each. Penn State's appropriation doesn't include all the agriculture and extension funds they get to do non-college stuff as our state A&M university.

My argument has always been that PASSHE (and Thaddeus Stevens) funding and tuition should be tied to the federal Pell Grant program so that the highest Pell Grant covers PASSHE tuition & fees. The PHEAA grant funding model should be reversed so the highest grants go to those attending PASSHE, not those attending private colleges, so that the PHEAA grant covers the lowest level of room & board. That way the neediest students can attend for free. Pitt and Penn State can start fundraising for their endowments to cover scholarships instead of professorships and department operating funds if they want to attract these students. State-related funding should be half that of PASSHE. By and large they have fundraising capacity to make up the difference and beyond Temple they're just using branch campuses to farm out the average students who would otherwise be attending PASSHE schools but are willing to pay more for the brand name logo on their diploma.

I nominate you to be Chancellor.

[Ship69]

There are some strong (and some ultra) conservatives supporting PASSHE. I think the years of tuition freezes in exchange for funding increases is a winning strategy. The transparency is huge. You can look up the salary of EVERY. SINGLE. PASSHE. EMPLOYEE. If you ever wanted to know how much the honors college office secretary makes at IUP, she's on there. The budgets - including how much cash reserves they hold - is public. The tuition is significantly and increasingly lower than the state-relateds. Its hard to complain about the cost of college when we have options in PA. There is one 4-year college in Wyoming.

If they can pry more aid out of the legislature and hold to the tuition strategy, I think they've got a winner. Ship President Charles Patterson recently told us that, because of the freezes that started before Covid, Ship tuition (adjusted for inflation) was effectively 13 percent cheaper than it had been four years earlier. And that was before they decided to extend the freeze this year.

Our big problem is demographics and the fact that there are over 200 colleges in Pa. We have just the opposite problem of Wyoming.

[Ship69]

I agree 100% but I still thought it was funny regarding JoePa's salary. It wasn't like they were demanding to know anybody else's salary.

Well, I doubt there was that much interest in, say, a math professor's salary. When there is that much money going into a program, people are naturally curious about who is getting what.

[Fightingscot82]

My local state rep, a decent guy, is an ultra conservative whom I don't agree with much, but he's become very aware of this issue and told me he's inclined to support schools the state actually owns. I think more people are swinging over to this point of view.

As a former journalist, it pissed me off to see that Penn State planned to completely cut off financial support next year for The Daily Collegian, the student newspaper that has been around since 1887. An average of 160 students work for the newspaper and it costs the $160,000, probably about the price of a single full professor, if that.

Before I was aware of Penn State's weird "state-related" status, I always wondered why they were the only B1G school along with Northwestern (a private school) not to report their coaches' salaries.

There are some strong (and some ultra) conservatives supporting PASSHE. I think the years of tuition freezes in exchange for funding increases is a winning strategy. The transparency is huge. You can look up the salary of EVERY. SINGLE. PASSHE. EMPLOYEE. If you ever wanted to know how much the honors college office secretary makes at IUP, she's on there. The budgets - including how much cash reserves they hold - is public. The tuition is significantly and increasingly lower than the state-relateds. Its hard to complain about the cost of college when we have options in PA. There is one 4-year college in Wyoming.

[Fightingscot82]

We are talking about Penn State and Pitt who get millions from the state and they are not owned by the state. They also get millions from their athletic conferences. Why does Penn State need 400 million a year from Harrisburg when they are about to spend 700 million on Beaver Stadium renovations?

Wouldn't you love at least a 7 million upgrade to The Denny courtesy of Harrisburg? You'd be lucky to get 7 dollars.

It's absurd that these two schools eat up so much public funding when they are NOT STATE OWNED PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES.

IUP and East Dennyburg should both be getting far more funding so they can lower tuition because that is what should be done at STATE OWNED PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES. They should be chaep and affordable so they are accessible to all of the people of Pennsylvania. Students at our schools should not have to take out outrageous loans that take years to pay back to attend a STATE OWNED PUBLIC UNIVERISTY.

You really should be mad at how Penn State and Pitt get money they doesn't deserve. Our schools are being short changed because of them.

Enough is enough...they have revenue sources that state system schools will never have.....

As for Seton Hill, LIT AF and The Lake Show...they are private Catholic Schools. They are own their own...like Penn State and Pitt should be...

I think the highest priority for the state should be determining a per-student funding rate for the different classifications instead of arguing big arbitrary appropriation figures. Here is how it shook out for 2022-23 per student:

Thaddeus Stevens: $15,260 per student
Lincoln: $10,417 per student

PASSHE: $6,925 per student
Pitt: $5,876 per student
Temple: $4,940 per student
Penn State: $2,743 per student

Numbers are the 2022-23 state appropriation and the fall 22 enrollment for each. Penn State's appropriation doesn't include all the agriculture and extension funds they get to do non-college stuff as our state A&M university.

My argument has always been that PASSHE (and Thaddeus Stevens) funding and tuition should be tied to the federal Pell Grant program so that the highest Pell Grant covers PASSHE tuition & fees. The PHEAA grant funding model should be reversed so the highest grants go to those attending PASSHE, not those attending private colleges, so that the PHEAA grant covers the lowest level of room & board. That way the neediest students can attend for free. Pitt and Penn State can start fundraising for their endowments to cover scholarships instead of professorships and department operating funds if they want to attract these students. State-related funding should be half that of PASSHE. By and large they have fundraising capacity to make up the difference and beyond Temple they're just using branch campuses to farm out the average students who would otherwise be attending PASSHE schools but are willing to pay more for the brand name logo on their diploma.

[Predatory Primates]

You guys have had a good program out there. Probably helps that Kansas has a spotty football history, although K-State has been tough for a while now.

Yeah. It's an easier sell.

The problem these days is that small market media is dying altogether. Local papers (the few that still exist)just reprint national news for the most part. Local TV has such small budgets that one person may be trying to cover every HS and college sport in a hundred mile radius.

[iupgroundhog]

Well, that's fine, but it's not entirely the point. If you're going to take state money, people paying the freight need to see what the money is being used for. Simple as that. It's true whether he's making $50,000 or $5 million.

I agree 100% but I still thought it was funny regarding JoePa's salary. It wasn't like they were demanding to know anybody else's salary.