PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Fightingscot82]

You might also say that about Pitt and Penn State degrees and one from a PASSHE school...You get a degree from both but the latter is a pump carafe variety.

I think that its similar to comparing FBS to D2. Its not about quality its about size & scope. There are too many stories that say coursework is just as hard if not more difficult at PASSHE schools than the big names. One reason is that professor job opportunities are so limited that PhDs go where the jobs are. I had several faculty at Edinboro who had all degrees from Ivy League schools. One professor, new at the time, said he took a job at Edinboro because the pay was better. A second reason is that the emphasis in PASSHE is teaching not research. In PASSHE there are no grad student teaching assistants - every class is taught by a full time or part time professor. At Penn State, there are 23 year olds who graduated in May teaching a freshman class in August. This is because Penn State is focused on research - professors teach fewer classes each term because they're expected to spend more time researching and writing. But this doesn't mean PASSHE can't be that for some students. There are foremost researchers teaching in PASSHE, but that's really the difference, in PASSHE they're still teaching. PASSHE doesn't have full-time research institutes because we're not designed for that.

[boatcapt]

The med and law schools are first rate. There are hotels with a Starbucks in the lobby and hotels with Starbucks coffee in push pump carafes. Both give you coffee in the Starbucks cup. But they're not the same. That's what happens at the Pitt and Penn State branches.

You might also say that about Pitt and Penn State degrees and one from a PASSHE school...You get a degree from both but the latter is a pump carafe variety.

[only1]

From today's Tribune Review:
https://triblive.com/opinion/editori...he-pipe-dream/

Clearly the writer does not understand the mission of the PASSHE system nor did they attempt to understand. They simply compare the requests to the "Big Dogs".

PASSHE Mission Statement:

"to provide high-quality education at the lowest possible cost to students; to increase educational attainment in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania; to prepare students at the undergraduate and graduate levels for professional and personal success in their lives; and to contribute to the economic, social, and cultural development of Pennsylvania's communities, the commonwealth, and the nation. "

[Fightingscot82]

The med and law schools are first rate. There are hotels with a Starbucks in the lobby and hotels with Starbucks coffee in push pump carafes. Both give you coffee in the Starbucks cup. But they're not the same. That's what happens at the Pitt and Penn State branches.

[Ship69]

Agree with you all around. I always compare Penn State's appropriation as giving your live-out kid an allowance. They aren't subject to open records oversight beyond their ten or so highest paid employees and average salaries for certain classifications. Everything but HR records and FERPA/HIPAA records at PASSHE is subject to FOIA - plus money is subject to state rules.

I think on a grand scale, the Pitt and Penn State branches haven't caused a system-wide enrollment issue but like you illustrate on a local scale for some schools. Behrend exploded over the last 20 years and it certainly hurt Edinboro. In the 90s, Penn State Altoona was thriving and probably hurt several schools. Pitt Bradford has expanded quite a bit and I know for certain that its viewed as more accessible than Clarion or Edinboro for those living in that region.

FWIW, I sat in on someone's interview this week. The candidate mentioned that they attended Penn State for undergrad. Upon further inspection, they attended Penn State DuBois for four years.

[IUPNation]

Agree with you all around. I always compare Penn State's appropriation as giving your live-out kid an allowance. They aren't subject to open records oversight beyond their ten or so highest paid employees and average salaries for certain classifications. Everything but HR records and FERPA/HIPAA records at PASSHE is subject to FOIA - plus money is subject to state rules.

I think on a grand scale, the Pitt and Penn State branches haven't caused a system-wide enrollment issue but like you illustrate on a local scale for some schools. Behrend exploded over the last 20 years and it certainly hurt Edinboro. In the 90s, Penn State Altoona was thriving and probably hurt several schools. Pitt Bradford has expanded quite a bit and I know for certain that its viewed as more accessible than Clarion or Edinboro for those living in that region.

FWIW, I sat in on someone's interview this week. The candidate mentioned that they attended Penn State for undergrad. Upon further inspection, they attended Penn State DuBois for four years.

[cwfenn]

Agree with you all around. I always compare Penn State's appropriation as giving your live-out kid an allowance. They aren't subject to open records oversight beyond their ten or so highest paid employees and average salaries for certain classifications. Everything but HR records and FERPA/HIPAA records at PASSHE is subject to FOIA - plus money is subject to state rules.

I think on a grand scale, the Pitt and Penn State branches haven't caused a system-wide enrollment issue but like you illustrate on a local scale for some schools. Behrend exploded over the last 20 years and it certainly hurt Edinboro. In the 90s, Penn State Altoona was thriving and probably hurt several schools. Pitt Bradford has expanded quite a bit and I know for certain that its viewed as more accessible than Clarion or Edinboro for those living in that region.

FWIW, I sat in on someone's interview this week. The candidate mentioned that they attended Penn State for undergrad. Upon further inspection, they attended Penn State DuBois for four years.

[Sec10-A-14]

Some odd facts Penn State Erie has 5,000+ students surpassing Edinboro 4,043.
Recall boro had @8,200+ at one time
Gannon had 11% growth last year to 4,705.
Mercyhurst down to 2,704
All numbers from 2021 fall enrollment.

[Fightingscot82]

PSU clearly has a lot of bargaining power relative to PASSHE when it comes to PA's budget. I mean, our universities are OWNED by the state, for chrissake. One would think that legislators would appreciate that.

However, looking at their enrollment numbers I don't think the PSU branch campuses are cannibalizing PASSHE that much. I do think that the Harrisburg campus has had a detrimental impact on Shippensburg, though.

I also think this budget is make or break for Greenstein. If the legislature doesn't buy into it, I think he will leave. I don't know if that would be a bad thing.

Agree with you all around. I always compare Penn State's appropriation as giving your live-out kid an allowance. They aren't subject to open records oversight beyond their ten or so highest paid employees and average salaries for certain classifications. Everything but HR records and FERPA/HIPAA records at PASSHE is subject to FOIA - plus money is subject to state rules.

I think on a grand scale, the Pitt and Penn State branches haven't caused a system-wide enrollment issue but like you illustrate on a local scale for some schools. Behrend exploded over the last 20 years and it certainly hurt Edinboro. In the 90s, Penn State Altoona was thriving and probably hurt several schools. Pitt Bradford has expanded quite a bit and I know for certain that its viewed as more accessible than Clarion or Edinboro for those living in that region.

FWIW, I sat in on someone's interview this week. The candidate mentioned that they attended Penn State for undergrad. Upon further inspection, they attended Penn State DuBois for four years.

[iupgroundhog]

I love how all the PASSHE articles depict the drop in student enrollment as a disgrace but when they speak of the drop of student enrollment at PSU is mirroring national trends.......you can not ever convince me that this is not done by design.

https://www.abc27.com/pennsylvania/p...ional-funding/

https://triblive.com/news/pennsylvan...tional-trends/

PSU clearly has a lot of bargaining power relative to PASSHE when it comes to PA's budget. I mean, our universities are OWNED by the state, for chrissake. One would think that legislators would appreciate that.

However, looking at their enrollment numbers I don't think the PSU branch campuses are cannibalizing PASSHE that much. I do think that the Harrisburg campus has had a detrimental impact on Shippensburg, though.

I also think this budget is make or break for Greenstein. If the legislature doesn't buy into it, I think he will leave. I don't know if that would be a bad thing.

[only1]

I love how all the PASSHE articles depict the drop in student enrollment as a disgrace but when they speak of the drop of student enrollment at PSU is mirroring national trends.......you can not ever convince me that this is not done by design.

https://www.abc27.com/pennsylvania/p...ional-funding/

https://triblive.com/news/pennsylvan...tional-trends/

[Fightingscot82]

One would think that a legislature governed in the majority by a competent party...would have thought to do this first before merging schools...see how it plays out.

However, we don't gave one of those in the majority in Harrisburg.

The legislature wants nothing to do with PASSHE. Their only real concern is the budget impact. In fact, there's a bill in the PA legislature to allow legislators to send proxies to PASSHE meetings.

[IUPNation]

New allocation formula favors schools that serve students from household incomes under $75k. This hurts West Chester and schools who are investing in applied health and engineering. Helps the most rural plus Cheyney.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202206150085

One would think that a legislature governed in the majority by a competent party...would have thought to do this first before merging schools...see how it plays out.

However, we don't gave one of those in the majority in Harrisburg.

[iupgroundhog]

Those majors tend to enroll students from higher family incomes.

I think the proposal would also be in line with the emphasis on job training. We tend to think of HH income under $75k as low-income 18-year-olds from cities or rural areas. However, if you think of a non-traditional student who is unemployed or underemployed, they also qualify. For somebody who is 34 and a candidate for a job training-type program it would facilitate their matriculation. and subsequently enable them to stay in the state, pay taxes, etc.

[only1]

Just another article......
https://www.abc27.com/pennsylvania/p...ional-funding/