PASSHE Institutions Merging

[iupgroundhog]

I guess I should say public resistance. Lock Haven has been externally vocal. Edinboro folks didn't like the idea and Slippery Rock took their case to the Chancellor. They didn't do it in the press or hold events.

The town/gown relationship is different in all of these communities. As far as I can recall from the one time I passed through Edinboro, PA there is not much of a community surrounding EUP. In contrast, LHU, while it has always been small, is in many ways the lifeblood of the community. The way the plan is structured portends a devastating economic hit to the community because LH stands to lose the most under the current plan.

At this point, he should allow LHU to withdraw from the triad and pull in another school, e.g. ESU, Ship, or Kutztown. See how they like being the sacrificial lamb.

[Fightingscot82]

Interestingly, on the West Triad, Greenstein recently said that when they did a review of the finances...they decided to add Edinboro into it because Cal and Clarion needed 'more mass'. First, I heard of that.

Also, he said that the input from the teams is critical and will be followed. He said, going in he kind of thought that some sports would be losing money and get cut. But, after analysis, they determined that they weren't and decided to keep them. He used this as an example of following the data and input from the groups.

The Clarion/Edinboro president characterized it as Cal and Clarion proactively advocating for Edinboro to join them since their finances, enrollment, and academic offerings overlap well. I don't know what to believe at this point.

[complaint_hopeful]

That is untrue. In his initial rollout of the plan for the West there was so much resistance that, according to you, Edinboro did not want to go along with the plan for fear of being subservient to Slippery Rock, and Slippery Rock did not want to go along with the plan unless the other campuses were 2nd tier under SRU direction. Confronted with that resistance it's clear that Greenstein attempted to follow the path of least resistance which he thought was adding Bloom into a Northeast triad. Mainly due to the size difference between LH and Bloom his plan is unfairly detrimental to LHU and the LH community. That's why there is the resistance.

Interestingly, on the West Triad, Greenstein recently said that when they did a review of the finances...they decided to add Edinboro into it because Cal and Clarion needed 'more mass'. First, I heard of that.

Also, he said that the input from the teams is critical and will be followed. He said, going in he kind of thought that some sports would be losing money and get cut. But, after analysis, they determined that they weren't and decided to keep them. He used this as an example of following the data and input from the groups.

re: Resistance - I think there is a lot. It's just not public. Like probably none of the schools are 100% on board with this. They say the right things in public, but I think there is skepticism.

[Fightingscot82]

That is untrue. In his initial rollout of the plan for the West there was so much resistance that, according to you, Edinboro did not want to go along with the plan for fear of being subservient to Slippery Rock, and Slippery Rock did not want to go along with the plan unless the other campuses were 2nd tier under SRU direction. Confronted with that resistance it's clear that Greenstein attempted to follow the path of least resistance which he thought was adding Bloom into a Northeast triad. Mainly due to the size difference between LH and Bloom his plan is unfairly detrimental to LHU and the LH community. That's why there is the resistance.

I guess I should say public resistance. Lock Haven has been externally vocal. Edinboro folks didn't like the idea and Slippery Rock took their case to the Chancellor. They didn't do it in the press or hold events.

[iupgroundhog]

I think the biggest story is that the concept of "dissolution" has been introduced. Revert back to the way things were pre-PASSHE.

The state senator from Indiana volunteered that he would sponsor that bill. It would be every school for themselves. Senator Pittman described how the "cross-subsidization" has hurt IUP. He's right. If dissolving PASSHE is an option, I am all for it.

dissolution - Legal Definition. n. The termination, cessation, or winding up of a legal entity such as a corporation or partnership; the consensual or judicially ordered undoing of a contract by placing the parties back into the positions they held before entering into it; the termination of a marriage.

[iupgroundhog]

Lock Haven

That is untrue. In his initial rollout of the plan for the West there was so much resistance that, according to you, Edinboro did not want to go along with the plan for fear of being subservient to Slippery Rock, and Slippery Rock did not want to go along with the plan unless the other campuses were 2nd tier under SRU direction. Confronted with that resistance it's clear that Greenstein attempted to follow the path of least resistance which he thought was adding Bloom into a Northeast triad. Mainly due to the size difference between LH and Bloom his plan is unfairly detrimental to LHU and the LH community. That's why there is the resistance.

[iupgroundhog]

What are the odds this doesn't get the go ahead at this point though?

I don't know what those odds are.

[Fightingscot82]

When you say "they" were the only campus and community to put up a fight who are you referring to?

Lock Haven

[complaint_hopeful]

When you say "they" were the only campus and community to put up a fight who are you referring to?

Lock Haven -

[complaint_hopeful]

Cal U Trims Costs for Westmoreland County Community College Grads (20% discount) -

Cal U trims costs for Westmoreland County Community College Grads

[iupgroundhog]

I don't blame him - they were really the only campus & community to put up a fight. Bloom to a much lesser degree but more of a "hey why are you dragging us into this mess?" attitude. I do wish Edinboro folks would have fought this but unfortunately they've been overcome by Stockholm Syndrome.

I think its fair to say Greenstein doesn't understand the symbiotic relationship of PASSHE schools and their communities. He came from the University of Cal system where the smallest campus (UC-Merced) is PASSHE-sized but in a city of nearly 85,000 but all other campuses average over 30,000 students and are in much larger cities that don't rely on the universities to drive economy and culture. California most likely placed campuses in those locations - in PA these towns often started the schools before the state took control.

When you say "they" were the only campus and community to put up a fight who are you referring to?

[complaint_hopeful]

[complaint_hopeful]

I suggested a long time ago that he would ultimately bail out on this job. Things are starting to fray.

He is casting blame at the Lock Haven community now for not just standing by and allowing him to destroy the community. That's interesting. It was his (possibly) fatal mistake taking SRU out of the mix and adding Bloomsburg in. When he changed course and did that, he screwed up.

I don't think he understands these communities that host the schools. I don't think he grasps that these schools support an entire area of the state. The school can't be dealt with in isolation.

What are the odds this doesn't get the go ahead at this point though? The PASSHE Board is who approves it. There will be a 60 day comment period where I'd imagine there will be A LOT of opposition, but ultimately it goes forward.

I guess it really depends on how bleak the situation really is. Lock Haven for instance says they have $45 million in reserves. IF that money was theirs and theirs alone, they could likely lose enrollment for several plus more years and survive.

The Chancellor and PASSHE see the system collapsing in a short period of time going at the current trend.

And maybe both are right. Maybe Lock Haven would be ok, but a bunch of other schools fail? The Chancellor is working to save ALL schools. Not just 1.

I tend to think his view is highly correct. Although, in his town halls and PR appearances he's talking about how he's seeing amazing work in these Integrations. Everything I hear is there is confusion and lack of communication and decisions. Unless the consultants built this thing heavily and just haven't released the info yet...

[Fightingscot82]

Northpointe was previously used for IUP's electro-optics program (now defunct), overflow for freshman nursing majors to take intro classes, and some Business grad classes as well as a few required liberal studies type classes. There is no demand. Not sure what they will end up getting for the facillities.

I

One of the biggest problems with PASSHE is the granularity of the analysis of the academic programs. It pits departments against each other, and changes from year to year. curriculum is always where it is fought out - IUP requires 3 english courses for all students for example - in the end this keeps faculty in a job, and gives them more perks. If passhe would look at broader groups, or do comparisons with other universities - (for instance compare physics to physics, and Crim to crim from different universities) they'd do better, and get rid of some of the territorial behavior. In the end, they may have to dissolve the system, and make the universities independent, which would nullify the faculty contract. Not sure every school for themselves is the best model, but things have been pretty strange this past year.

Maybe I'm confusing the Northpointe center with Monroeville?

I agree with you on the second part. The PASSHE curriculum is designed to keep faculty employed and create artificial demand for courses under the guise of a liberal arts core. This artificial demand led to creating departments and majors that were never popular but the budget was sound so nobody questioned it. I know that's rather cynical but its true. Like you said, its something that was created within a vacuum by system folks without much consciousness for how things are done elsewhere (a system-wide issue). There are MUCH higher ranked schools that don't have half the degree as general education. It also empowers the doubt in the value of the setup - without using cliches can they show that taking a second math class makes you a better high school history teacher or taking a philosophy class makes you a better biologist?

[ironmaniup]

Most of these centers were developed to make grad studies easier. They've been made obsolete by most grad programs now being online. That big multi-university shared campus in Warrandale is a ghost town. It did allow someone like Waynesburg to compete for grad students in the Pittsburgh metro but you're still not centrally located - and people will choose online in their home over a classroom after work.

Northpointe was previously used for IUP's electro-optics program (now defunct), overflow for freshman nursing majors to take intro classes, and some Business grad classes as well as a few required liberal studies type classes. There is no demand. Not sure what they will end up getting for the facillities.

I

've been tapped to work on some parts of the western "integration" (need a meme of Arnold saying "its not a merger!"). I don't know who else is part of this working group and what their backgrounds are. Given my experience on other PASSHE things, it will get bogged down in the weeds by politics and territorialism. It appears that I assumed correctly that the one anti-merger group is APSCUF (faculty) led. They showed their hand by posting a few complaints about how PASSHE leadership have seen their salaries rise by 12% in the last decade (the horror!) and compared it to faculty salaries (claiming a net loss). I imagine I'll have to sign an NDA but I'll share what I can if its relevant.

One of the biggest problems with PASSHE is the granularity of the analysis of the academic programs. It pits departments against each other, and changes from year to year. curriculum is always where it is fought out - IUP requires 3 english courses for all students for example - in the end this keeps faculty in a job, and gives them more perks. If passhe would look at broader groups, or do comparisons with other universities - (for instance compare physics to physics, and Crim to crim from different universities) they'd do better, and get rid of some of the territorial behavior. In the end, they may have to dissolve the system, and make the universities independent, which would nullify the faculty contract. Not sure every school for themselves is the best model, but things have been pretty strange this past year.