THE IUP Football Thread

[TheBigCat2192]

How could the climbing wall save money going forward? Its already built.

Food service is difficult. Bloomsburg (and most other PASSHE schools) use Aramark for dining. That contract has an annual revenue minimum they must hit on meal plans and catering. If not, the school has to pay the balance. Aramark gets to set the prices on food and meal plans. So they have to make it appealing enough to get students (especially those off campus) to hit that annual minimum. I also am not sure that the ice cream bar really would impact expenses much. Ice cream in 5 gallon tubs isn't THAT expensive. The big expense is made to order food and grab & go. Yeah, very few want all you can eat cafeterias, but that's also the cheapest way to do food.

My point wasn’t that they should get rid of all you can eat dining. Merely that campus dining options are probably more than are necessary at one school. I also didn’t mean that they should tear down the climbing wall either as that would probably be more expensive than maintaining; my point is that it was one of those “student life” amenities that was built to try and entice students during the rec center’s renovation that we could have done without in the first place. During my time at BU it got very little use outside of demonstrations put on by rec center staff and occasional indoor sessions by the outdoor life club when weather conditions made their outdoor activities impractical/dangerous.

[Fightingscot82]

To be fair to the school cutting dining options this is an area where costs could be reduced and potentially passed onto students as savings without needing a lot of bickering within PASSHE or the legislature. I know that this is not a popular opinion but cutting out some of the “campus life” amenities that have turned most schools into miniature hotels over the last few decades could help save a few bucks. To use some examples from my own alma mater, Bloomsburg: there really isn’t a “need” for an ice cream bar with 8+ flavors of hard serve in the commons, the indoor rock climbing wall in the rec center that was extremely rarely in use, or the old outdoor basketball court on campus which I saw people playing on approximately once a semester. Cutting back is a hard sell though especially after years of promoting these things to prospective students.

How could the climbing wall save money going forward? Its already built.

Food service is difficult. Bloomsburg (and most other PASSHE schools) use Aramark for dining. That contract has an annual revenue minimum they must hit on meal plans and catering. If not, the school has to pay the balance. Aramark gets to set the prices on food and meal plans. So they have to make it appealing enough to get students (especially those off campus) to hit that annual minimum. I also am not sure that the ice cream bar really would impact expenses much. Ice cream in 5 gallon tubs isn't THAT expensive. The big expense is made to order food and grab & go. Yeah, very few want all you can eat cafeterias, but that's also the cheapest way to do food.

[TheBigCat2192]

I understand the argument. But I think the argument they are presenting is not correct. I think most schools now (IUP included) do a really good job of providing a variety of dining options to students, faculty, visitors on campus, etc. They are presenting the case that the meal plan value has not increased at the same value as many other items that are offered at specific spots. However, what they are failing to identify is that the stuff they are referencing are some of the items that, in recent years, have gone up in price a ton (i.e. the frozen foods they referenced - pizza logs, mac and cheese bits, etc.).

So, on one hand, I get it. They want to use a meal swipe for more "a la carte" options, but the meal swipe no longer covers that option, and the price now requires them to use flex dollars. What they probably fail to realize is that for the meal swipe to cover all of these a la carte options they desire to purchase with a traditional meal swipe, the cost of their basic meal plan would go up significantly. It sounds like IUP has gotten much better at the inclusion of other dining options on campus being able to work with a meal swipe, or meal swipe + flex. Dining there has changed a lot since I graduated in 2015. That said, I can argue that some of the stuff they are presenting shows they are changing for the better. What Folger's used to be when I was there was mostly all flex. They had a pizza place, burger place, and a salad spot, in addition to a Starbucks. The entire building was all Flex. They opened up "North Dining" my junior or senior year and that spot was 50/50 in terms of offerings where you could use a meal plan. The HUB and Fosters were about the only two spots that you were guaranteed to be able to effectively utilize a meal swipe.

I would also challenge the "post-it note" sized sandwich. It sounds to me like they are describing what used to be called a "bagged lunch" at IUP. In fact, that was the best option on campus through the week for lunch. The sandwich wasn't huge, but it was a lunch sized sandwich on a small hoagie bun (you had your choice of ham, turkey, roast beef, or tuna salad). You got a bottle of water or can of pop, chips, cookie, and a piece of fruit. For $6.20 meal swipe, that's a pretty good deal. They had them available in about 3-4 different spots around campus, one of them inside Pratt or Wallwork.

The real conversation is that most universities seem to be navigating away from the all you can eat dining option. That's happening everywhere. As the article suggests, there are staffing issues galore that are changing the way hospitality services have to operate. Fewer people are inclined to eat at a buffet post-pandemic as well. And I'm sure food costs are astronomical at universities, and the likely waste associated with it makes it an unprofitable venture.

To be fair to the school cutting dining options this is an area where costs could be reduced and potentially passed onto students as savings without needing a lot of bickering within PASSHE or the legislature. I know that this is not a popular opinion but cutting out some of the “campus life” amenities that have turned most schools into miniature hotels over the last few decades could help save a few bucks. To use some examples from my own alma mater, Bloomsburg: there really isn’t a “need” for an ice cream bar with 8+ flavors of hard serve in the commons, the indoor rock climbing wall in the rec center that was extremely rarely in use, or the old outdoor basketball court on campus which I saw people playing on approximately once a semester. Cutting back is a hard sell though especially after years of promoting these things to prospective students.

[IUP24]

Same thing my age group says about your age group (and the one above mine says about us).

I get that the world changes with time. Interests change societally as new generations reach different ages. It's all cyclical. I just view what FightingScot said as being pretty accurate regarding young people as it pertains to the college experience. I guess the other avenue to look at is that a kid who is a college freshman now, spent much of high school not even getting the real "high school experience." You are dealing with a crop of individuals between high school and college who now have had fundamentally different experiences in periods of their lives that you would consider to be important or formative years. Imagine going to college and never having had the opportunity to join an extra curricular activities in high school, or play/attend sporting events in a normal environment, etc. I suppose that gap in time for those at that age has proven somewhat critical.

People in certain age brackets don't believe they need human interaction anymore. They spent much of their life growing up with technology, and with the fundamental changes ushered in during the pandemic (remote work, online schooling, etc.), people don't believe they need to go out to the dining hall to eat with friends anymore, because they feel that they can eat a chicken wrap while on a zoom call with 3 other people. I just think it's unique. To his point, people "want" all these things, but they either A) Don't want to pay for them (assuming they should just be provided - meals, student housing, etc.), or B) Don't put in the effort to have the experience they desire (and frankly, are paying for).

Most of my lasting friends in college, and still to this day, were guys in the same major as me that I took classes with. We spent a ton of time together, in person, because we were always seeing each other and working together. To FS's point, these students feel they can achieve a quality education via Zoom calls. They don't want to sit in a classroom or ever work a job where they are required to go into an office, but then they complain they have no friends. It's hard to formulate actual human connections by never interacting with people in person. I'm not suggesting people can't do jobs remotely, go to school remotely, etc. - Because you can absolutely do those things. But for students today to think they can achieve a traditional college experience by never sitting in a classroom or making an effort to have in-person interactions by doing traditional social things that you see on a college campus, I'm just not sure it's feasible to think that way.

You're seeing this everywhere. My mom is a college professor. The manner in which students are able to interact with her and other people is so different now than it was just 5 years ago. I hear the stories all the time. She has both virtual office hours and in-person office hours. Nobody shows up in person. They call in. Yet, all these people live on campus. Then they review the course and instructor and say that they felt they weren't able to form a good connection with their professor.

You have this small cluster of people in a certain age group (and I would argue that it's not an entire "generation" we are talking about, rather, just a few years) that simply have a fundamentally different view on social norms relating to college, education, and the workplace.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

They almost did that one year I came up..either 2015 or 2016..almost got us at The Cig.

That was 2016. IUP won something like 44-37. Wild game.

Typically down at Greensburg it's essentially an IUP home game. Very short trip.

If anybody is going, this is a cool stadium for fans. There's no track and the sidelines are very tight. The bleachers are right on top of the team. As a fan, you get a very close seat to the action.

[IUPNation]

Nico needs to be a little of both Saturday. This is Seton Hill's best shot ever to take down IUP.

I don't think they will, but this is their shot.

They almost did that one year I came up..either 2015 or 2016..almost got us at The Cig.

[iupgroundhog]

Nico needs to be a little of both Saturday. This is Seton Hill's best shot ever to take down IUP.

I don't think they will, but this is their shot.

If SHU takes down IUP, I will boycott the pick-ems for the rest of the year. I plan on taking more wild guesses in the pick-ems until the last PSAC team is out of the PO's, though.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I always interpreted that to be a challenge in past years when they had both traditional pocket passers and dual-threat running QBs. Its hard to juxtapose between schemes. Its one thing to have a mobile QB but another to have plays designed for movement.

Nico needs to be a little of both Saturday. This is Seton Hill's best shot ever to take down IUP.

I don't think they will, but this is their shot.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Perhaps the best post I've ever read on this message board. Spot on. That can be extrapolated to other areas of our society as well. But in a vacuum what you stated there concerns me greatly as things progress and more young people just out of college enter the workforce. I am "young" by definition. I turned 30 this year. It wasn't long ago that I was in college, but man, does it seem so different now compared to then.

People want specific things, but don't want to pay for that thing. It's a society where kids believe they are, for lack of a better word or phrase, entitled to what they want living because they are a living, breathing, human being. They want a college experience, but don't necessarily want to do the things that provide that experience to you.

Same thing my age group says about your age group (and the one above mine says about us).

[EyeoftheHawk]

Coming from somebody who had no idea about the Heritage Conference until I went to IUP, the unique element to me was that league was comprised of all different sized schools, but they were all playing in a single conference. They would all play in the regular season, but many would get seeded differently as it pertained to their represented classification within PIAA D6. Perhaps that was more prevalent in basketball than football. But I thought I recalled that some of those teams were A while others were AA. Then you had the situation with AAA Ligonier Valley.

All teams in the Heritage were A or AA. Ligonier Valley was AA, although they had a run there where they could have likely won D-6 AAA. Ligonier Valley is the merger of Laurel Valley, which was very tiny, and Ligonier Valley, that was small. Ligonier Valley has been mediocre and even less than that this year in the WPIAL.

[EyeoftheHawk]

The conference realignment in rural PA is interesting. Indiana seems culturally more D6 than D7. Geographically and travel-wise, I think D7 makes sense for IHS. The problem for IHS is that they are in kind of a conference affiliation no man's land.

If you look at the various conferences for the rural PA schools in central PA and extending into the western regions and towards the NE region, I think IHS would be a better fit for the Laurel Highlands Athletic Conference (LHAC). This includes schools like Tyrone, Bellwood-Antis, Huntingdon, Clearfield, Philipsburg-Osceola, Bellefonte, Bald Eagle Area, and Penns Valley, in addition to the traditional LHAC schools Conemaugh Valley, Meyersdale, Windber, Berlin Brothersvalley, and North Star. I think that would be a better fit culturally and geographically.

My merged alma mater (Central Mountain), which combines Lock Haven, which played in the Central Penn Conference, and Bald Eagle-Nittany, which played in the West Branch Conference (mostly Williamsport area schools minus Williamsport), is now part of the Heartland Conference, which extends down the Susquehanna Valley in the west e.g. Lewisburg, Selinsgrove, Shikellemy, to Williamsport and further east to Bloomsburg, Central Columbia, etc. The conference alignment seems to work well for the 20+ schools that are members. A few of the larger historical D6 foes (State College, Altoona) and Mifflin County (formerly Lewistown, Kishocaquillas, et al) have moved to the Mid-Penn Conference, which in the case of SC and Altoona is a better competitive fit and for Mifflin County is better geographically.

BTW, Punxsy and Dubois are in what is called the D-9 conference which I don't think would be a good fit for IHS.

Agree about LHAC being a better fit than D-9, which is basically no-man’s land for a 4A school. Same for D-6. Every once in a while someone mentions Heritage Conference but as weak as IHS football is, they’d win that conference every year and dominate in every other sport. IHS is 2-3 times bigger than most schools in the Heritage.

That said, IHS is still better where they are overall. We’re mostly talking about football, but they’ve been competitive in many other sports in the WPIAL. As much as none of us want to admit it, there’s more to athletics than football.

[IUP24]

It's all a Catch 22. Students don't want all you can eat setup, menu, or quality. They want "fast casual" quality food that is grab or order to go then take it back to their rooms or sit with their friends before retreating to their living space. They also don't want fixed meal times because most run on a 2-3 hour delay from what we adults consider typical.

They want quality and convenience but don't want to pay the cost.

It's the same for every part of college. Tuition, activities, housing, etc. They want online class but live on campus. Then they complain that they feel lonely and disconnected. They want nice stuff but question the cost. Running a college anymore is just parenting other people's kids.

The quietest place on campus is the dining hall. The most lively is the common spaces of the library.

Perhaps the best post I've ever read on this message board. Spot on. That can be extrapolated to other areas of our society as well. But in a vacuum what you stated there concerns me greatly as things progress and more young people just out of college enter the workforce. I am "young" by definition. I turned 30 this year. It wasn't long ago that I was in college, but man, does it seem so different now compared to then.

People want specific things, but don't want to pay for that thing. It's a society where kids believe they are, for lack of a better word or phrase, entitled to what they want living because they are a living, breathing, human being. They want a college experience, but don't necessarily want to do the things that provide that experience to you.

[Fightingscot82]

Don't students work in the dining halls? They did back in the Stone Ages.

I just laugh because "in my day" you went through the line and you picked which of the two mystery entrees you wanted for the meal.

We thought we were the **** when they put the fresh french fries at the salad bar.

I does seem it is no longer all you can eat like it was in the Stone Ages.

I still remember their version of a "cheesesteak"...some small bad roll...some subpar Steak Um and a slice of non melted American cheese on top.

Then there was Turkey Tetrachloride night! I was happy when it was Salisbury Steak Day!

I often ate macaroni salad and then mixed in dry tuna from the salad bar.

My plan did cover breakfast...but I rarely ever ate breakfast. It's probably why I was so thin in those days.

It's all a Catch 22. Students don't want all you can eat setup, menu, or quality. They want "fast casual" quality food that is grab or order to go then take it back to their rooms or sit with their friends before retreating to their living space. They also don't want fixed meal times because most run on a 2-3 hour delay from what we adults consider typical.

They want quality and convenience but don't want to pay the cost.

It's the same for every part of college. Tuition, activities, housing, etc. They want online class but live on campus. Then they complain that they feel lonely and disconnected. They want nice stuff but question the cost. Running a college anymore is just parenting other people's kids.

The quietest place on campus is the dining hall. The most lively is the common spaces of the library.

[IUPNation]

I understand the argument. But I think the argument they are presenting is not correct. I think most schools now (IUP included) do a really good job of providing a variety of dining options to students, faculty, visitors on campus, etc. They are presenting the case that the meal plan value has not increased at the same value as many other items that are offered at specific spots. However, what they are failing to identify is that the stuff they are referencing are some of the items that, in recent years, have gone up in price a ton (i.e. the frozen foods they referenced - pizza logs, mac and cheese bits, etc.).

So, on one hand, I get it. They want to use a meal swipe for more "a la carte" options, but the meal swipe no longer covers that option, and the price now requires them to use flex dollars. What they probably fail to realize is that for the meal swipe to cover all of these a la carte options they desire to purchase with a traditional meal swipe, the cost of their basic meal plan would go up significantly. It sounds like IUP has gotten much better at the inclusion of other dining options on campus being able to work with a meal swipe, or meal swipe + flex. Dining there has changed a lot since I graduated in 2015. That said, I can argue that some of the stuff they are presenting shows they are changing for the better. What Folger's used to be when I was there was mostly all flex. They had a pizza place, burger place, and a salad spot, in addition to a Starbucks. The entire building was all Flex. They opened up "North Dining" my junior or senior year and that spot was 50/50 in terms of offerings where you could use a meal plan. The HUB and Fosters were about the only two spots that you were guaranteed to be able to effectively utilize a meal swipe.

I would also challenge the "post-it note" sized sandwich. It sounds to me like they are describing what used to be called a "bagged lunch" at IUP. In fact, that was the best option on campus through the week for lunch. The sandwich wasn't huge, but it was a lunch sized sandwich on a small hoagie bun (you had your choice of ham, turkey, roast beef, or tuna salad). You got a bottle of water or can of pop, chips, cookie, and a piece of fruit. For $6.20 meal swipe, that's a pretty good deal. They had them available in about 3-4 different spots around campus, one of them inside Pratt or Wallwork.

The real conversation is that most universities seem to be navigating away from the all you can eat dining option. That's happening everywhere. As the article suggests, there are staffing issues galore that are changing the way hospitality services have to operate. Fewer people are inclined to eat at a buffet post-pandemic as well. And I'm sure food costs are astronomical at universities, and the likely waste associated with it makes it an unprofitable venture.

Don't students work in the dining halls? They did back in the Stone Ages.

I just laugh because "in my day" you went through the line and you picked which of the two mystery entrees you wanted for the meal.

We thought we were the **** when they put the fresh french fries at the salad bar.

I does seem it is no longer all you can eat like it was in the Stone Ages.

I still remember their version of a "cheesesteak"...some small bad roll...some subpar Steak Um and a slice of non melted American cheese on top.

Then there was Turkey Tetrachloride night! I was happy when it was Salisbury Steak Day!

I often ate macaroni salad and then mixed in dry tuna from the salad bar.

My plan did cover breakfast...but I rarely ever ate breakfast. It's probably why I was so thin in those days.

[IUP24]

Recall a few years back Altoona joined the WPIAL. Talk about an outlier. They had very little success, cited the travel and bailed out. Perhaps nobody there thought of the travel in advance. Or, they were used to winning and didn't like getting pounded on the norm.

Local to Indiana, West Shamokin joined the WPIAL but also didn't last long. They've since rejoined the Heritage.

IHS is going to lose its closest rival next year. Kiski Area is going to get bumped back up to 5A.

Coming from somebody who had no idea about the Heritage Conference until I went to IUP, the unique element to me was that league was comprised of all different sized schools, but they were all playing in a single conference. They would all play in the regular season, but many would get seeded differently as it pertained to their represented classification within PIAA D6. Perhaps that was more prevalent in basketball than football. But I thought I recalled that some of those teams were A while others were AA. Then you had the situation with AAA Ligonier Valley.