THE IUP Football Thread

[Fightingscot82]

If you can have as much as you can eat once you are in the door what is the difference. You go when it’s so busy, you scrape it in into the container below the table and put it in your backpack!!

:-)

But the kids don't do all you can eat anymore. Its noticeably lower quality or more basic than the fast casual grab & go stuff. Was on campus at SRU last night to see Rainn Wilson and the line to order at the Quaker Steak in their student center was easily 20 deep. We parked near their traditional dining hall and it was so dead that my wife didn't even notice it was a dining hall. Anecdotal but its pretty consistent with where I have spent time. As has been shared by others, students are their own worst enemies. They vote with their dollars and feet on nicer things that cost more money...but b*tch and moan about price. Parents aren't any better.

[iupgroundhog]

If you can have as much as you can eat once you are in the door what is the difference. You go when it’s so busy, you scrape it in into the container below the table and put it in your backpack!!

:-)

I hope Dan Greenstein and the BOG are devouring all this information.

[IUPNation]

I don't know what it was like when you were there, but they had people watching the doors on the way out to prevent that lol.

If you can have as much as you can eat once you are in the door what is the difference. You go when it’s so busy, you scrape it in into the container below the table and put it in your backpack!!

:-)

[IUP24]

My point wasn’t that they should get rid of all you can eat dining. Merely that campus dining options are probably more than are necessary at one school. I also didn’t mean that they should tear down the climbing wall either as that would probably be more expensive than maintaining; my point is that it was one of those “student life” amenities that was built to try and entice students during the rec center’s renovation that we could have done without in the first place. During my time at BU it got very little use outside of demonstrations put on by rec center staff and occasional indoor sessions by the outdoor life club when weather conditions made their outdoor activities impractical/dangerous.

I understand precisely where you are coming from with this. For such a long time, attracting students to higher education destinations was an arms race. I think many of the "pushes" or "initiatives" for what these universities focus on tend to be go in waves and have a lot of consistency across all campus. Simply looking at the western PA trifecta of IUP, Cal, and SRU is a prime example. My sister chose Cal after she graduated high school in 2007 because they had recently completed an update of their dorms. They were the first of the 3 to perform massive updates to the residence halls, and that was extremely attractive to her. The two final schools for her were IUP and Cal. IUP was just starting their residence hall project. Cal had already completed. 4 years later, I chose IUP. Not because of residence halls, but for the purposes of this conversation, IUP had renovated or built new dorms on campus that were actually an upgrade over what Cal offered. It was a clear example of two universities in close proximity, recruiting the same population, trying to outdo one another.

Parallel that with IUP's KCAC and Cal's Convocation Center. It wasn't until IUP had broke ground on the KCAC that Angelo Armenti at Cal decided that he wanted a shiny toy like that too. That's been discussed at length on this message board from multiple focal points, but again... Just an arms race and keeping up with each other to show "we have as much or more to offer than the other school you are looking at."

Slippery Rock was the first of the three to start undergoing massive changes to dining options amongst the three. I recall that from when I was in high school looking at schools. I was at IUP from 2011-2015, and it wasn't until the 2nd half of my tenure there did they start implementing and planning for a long-term plan how they were going to be changing dining.

I've been on campus at many D1 schools in the south before for a variety of reasons. At most of those places, the dorms are crap. Food is pretty standard, but they all try to compete amongst each other by building the largest and coolest fitness or student activities center. I live in Columbus, Ohio. It's the same thing there.

The unfortunate conversation for many schools is that they pumped so much money into all of these projects to attract students, but enrollment is plummeting at all of them.

[IUP24]

The kids are dumb!! They should want the all you can eat option. You take a container in with you and you have extra food for later.

I don't know what it was like when you were there, but they had people watching the doors on the way out to prevent that lol.

[Ship69]

Recall a few years back Altoona joined the WPIAL. Talk about an outlier. They had very little success, cited the travel and bailed out. Perhaps nobody there thought of the travel in advance. Or, they were used to winning and didn't like getting pounded on the norm.

Local to Indiana, West Shamokin joined the WPIAL but also didn't last long. They've since rejoined the Heritage.

IHS is going to lose its closest rival next year. Kiski Area is going to get bumped back up to 5A.

Altoona hasn't had much success for quite a while. They were regularlly pounded in the Mid-Penn Conference, went out to the WPIAL and got pounded, and now are back to mediocre in the top Mid-Penn Division. The Mid-Penn's top division is about as weak as I've seen it in years, but Altoona still isn't doing much. They don't seem to have the horses any more. I'm old enough to remember when Altoona vs. Johnstown was a big game in Pennsylvania.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Looks like the weather will clear out of Greensburg by 2pm tomorrow so they should have a dry game.

3pm kick

[IUPNation]

The kids are dumb!! They should want the all you can eat option. You take a container in with you and you have extra food for later.

[ironmaniup]

How could the climbing wall save money going forward? Its already built.

Food service is difficult. Bloomsburg (and most other PASSHE schools) use Aramark for dining. That contract has an annual revenue minimum they must hit on meal plans and catering. If not, the school has to pay the balance. Aramark gets to set the prices on food and meal plans. So they have to make it appealing enough to get students (especially those off campus) to hit that annual minimum. I also am not sure that the ice cream bar really would impact expenses much. Ice cream in 5 gallon tubs isn't THAT expensive. The big expense is made to order food and grab & go. Yeah, very few want all you can eat cafeterias, but that's also the cheapest way to do food.

outsourcing hasn’t been the money saver everyone thought it would be. Imagine having a contract that gives you both a monopoly on on campus food, and a guaranteed minimum revenue. The same is true for housing. Of course this leads to fairly mediocre service since they still get paid even if they provide overpriced processed junk food. It’s pretty much a racket

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Curt in a battle at Marshall.

JMU is up, 3-2, in third.

[TheBigCat2192]

How could the climbing wall save money going forward? Its already built.

Food service is difficult. Bloomsburg (and most other PASSHE schools) use Aramark for dining. That contract has an annual revenue minimum they must hit on meal plans and catering. If not, the school has to pay the balance. Aramark gets to set the prices on food and meal plans. So they have to make it appealing enough to get students (especially those off campus) to hit that annual minimum. I also am not sure that the ice cream bar really would impact expenses much. Ice cream in 5 gallon tubs isn't THAT expensive. The big expense is made to order food and grab & go. Yeah, very few want all you can eat cafeterias, but that's also the cheapest way to do food.

My point wasn’t that they should get rid of all you can eat dining. Merely that campus dining options are probably more than are necessary at one school. I also didn’t mean that they should tear down the climbing wall either as that would probably be more expensive than maintaining; my point is that it was one of those “student life” amenities that was built to try and entice students during the rec center’s renovation that we could have done without in the first place. During my time at BU it got very little use outside of demonstrations put on by rec center staff and occasional indoor sessions by the outdoor life club when weather conditions made their outdoor activities impractical/dangerous.

[Fightingscot82]

To be fair to the school cutting dining options this is an area where costs could be reduced and potentially passed onto students as savings without needing a lot of bickering within PASSHE or the legislature. I know that this is not a popular opinion but cutting out some of the “campus life” amenities that have turned most schools into miniature hotels over the last few decades could help save a few bucks. To use some examples from my own alma mater, Bloomsburg: there really isn’t a “need” for an ice cream bar with 8+ flavors of hard serve in the commons, the indoor rock climbing wall in the rec center that was extremely rarely in use, or the old outdoor basketball court on campus which I saw people playing on approximately once a semester. Cutting back is a hard sell though especially after years of promoting these things to prospective students.

How could the climbing wall save money going forward? Its already built.

Food service is difficult. Bloomsburg (and most other PASSHE schools) use Aramark for dining. That contract has an annual revenue minimum they must hit on meal plans and catering. If not, the school has to pay the balance. Aramark gets to set the prices on food and meal plans. So they have to make it appealing enough to get students (especially those off campus) to hit that annual minimum. I also am not sure that the ice cream bar really would impact expenses much. Ice cream in 5 gallon tubs isn't THAT expensive. The big expense is made to order food and grab & go. Yeah, very few want all you can eat cafeterias, but that's also the cheapest way to do food.

[TheBigCat2192]

I understand the argument. But I think the argument they are presenting is not correct. I think most schools now (IUP included) do a really good job of providing a variety of dining options to students, faculty, visitors on campus, etc. They are presenting the case that the meal plan value has not increased at the same value as many other items that are offered at specific spots. However, what they are failing to identify is that the stuff they are referencing are some of the items that, in recent years, have gone up in price a ton (i.e. the frozen foods they referenced - pizza logs, mac and cheese bits, etc.).

So, on one hand, I get it. They want to use a meal swipe for more "a la carte" options, but the meal swipe no longer covers that option, and the price now requires them to use flex dollars. What they probably fail to realize is that for the meal swipe to cover all of these a la carte options they desire to purchase with a traditional meal swipe, the cost of their basic meal plan would go up significantly. It sounds like IUP has gotten much better at the inclusion of other dining options on campus being able to work with a meal swipe, or meal swipe + flex. Dining there has changed a lot since I graduated in 2015. That said, I can argue that some of the stuff they are presenting shows they are changing for the better. What Folger's used to be when I was there was mostly all flex. They had a pizza place, burger place, and a salad spot, in addition to a Starbucks. The entire building was all Flex. They opened up "North Dining" my junior or senior year and that spot was 50/50 in terms of offerings where you could use a meal plan. The HUB and Fosters were about the only two spots that you were guaranteed to be able to effectively utilize a meal swipe.

I would also challenge the "post-it note" sized sandwich. It sounds to me like they are describing what used to be called a "bagged lunch" at IUP. In fact, that was the best option on campus through the week for lunch. The sandwich wasn't huge, but it was a lunch sized sandwich on a small hoagie bun (you had your choice of ham, turkey, roast beef, or tuna salad). You got a bottle of water or can of pop, chips, cookie, and a piece of fruit. For $6.20 meal swipe, that's a pretty good deal. They had them available in about 3-4 different spots around campus, one of them inside Pratt or Wallwork.

The real conversation is that most universities seem to be navigating away from the all you can eat dining option. That's happening everywhere. As the article suggests, there are staffing issues galore that are changing the way hospitality services have to operate. Fewer people are inclined to eat at a buffet post-pandemic as well. And I'm sure food costs are astronomical at universities, and the likely waste associated with it makes it an unprofitable venture.

To be fair to the school cutting dining options this is an area where costs could be reduced and potentially passed onto students as savings without needing a lot of bickering within PASSHE or the legislature. I know that this is not a popular opinion but cutting out some of the “campus life” amenities that have turned most schools into miniature hotels over the last few decades could help save a few bucks. To use some examples from my own alma mater, Bloomsburg: there really isn’t a “need” for an ice cream bar with 8+ flavors of hard serve in the commons, the indoor rock climbing wall in the rec center that was extremely rarely in use, or the old outdoor basketball court on campus which I saw people playing on approximately once a semester. Cutting back is a hard sell though especially after years of promoting these things to prospective students.

[IUP24]

Same thing my age group says about your age group (and the one above mine says about us).

I get that the world changes with time. Interests change societally as new generations reach different ages. It's all cyclical. I just view what FightingScot said as being pretty accurate regarding young people as it pertains to the college experience. I guess the other avenue to look at is that a kid who is a college freshman now, spent much of high school not even getting the real "high school experience." You are dealing with a crop of individuals between high school and college who now have had fundamentally different experiences in periods of their lives that you would consider to be important or formative years. Imagine going to college and never having had the opportunity to join an extra curricular activities in high school, or play/attend sporting events in a normal environment, etc. I suppose that gap in time for those at that age has proven somewhat critical.

People in certain age brackets don't believe they need human interaction anymore. They spent much of their life growing up with technology, and with the fundamental changes ushered in during the pandemic (remote work, online schooling, etc.), people don't believe they need to go out to the dining hall to eat with friends anymore, because they feel that they can eat a chicken wrap while on a zoom call with 3 other people. I just think it's unique. To his point, people "want" all these things, but they either A) Don't want to pay for them (assuming they should just be provided - meals, student housing, etc.), or B) Don't put in the effort to have the experience they desire (and frankly, are paying for).

Most of my lasting friends in college, and still to this day, were guys in the same major as me that I took classes with. We spent a ton of time together, in person, because we were always seeing each other and working together. To FS's point, these students feel they can achieve a quality education via Zoom calls. They don't want to sit in a classroom or ever work a job where they are required to go into an office, but then they complain they have no friends. It's hard to formulate actual human connections by never interacting with people in person. I'm not suggesting people can't do jobs remotely, go to school remotely, etc. - Because you can absolutely do those things. But for students today to think they can achieve a traditional college experience by never sitting in a classroom or making an effort to have in-person interactions by doing traditional social things that you see on a college campus, I'm just not sure it's feasible to think that way.

You're seeing this everywhere. My mom is a college professor. The manner in which students are able to interact with her and other people is so different now than it was just 5 years ago. I hear the stories all the time. She has both virtual office hours and in-person office hours. Nobody shows up in person. They call in. Yet, all these people live on campus. Then they review the course and instructor and say that they felt they weren't able to form a good connection with their professor.

You have this small cluster of people in a certain age group (and I would argue that it's not an entire "generation" we are talking about, rather, just a few years) that simply have a fundamentally different view on social norms relating to college, education, and the workplace.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

They almost did that one year I came up..either 2015 or 2016..almost got us at The Cig.

That was 2016. IUP won something like 44-37. Wild game.

Typically down at Greensburg it's essentially an IUP home game. Very short trip.

If anybody is going, this is a cool stadium for fans. There's no track and the sidelines are very tight. The bleachers are right on top of the team. As a fan, you get a very close seat to the action.