OT: PIAA Wrestling public vs. private

[iupgroundhog]

Then they need to create a AAAA classification and move them up.

They have that and it's called National Preps.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I physically cringed when I saw this.

No.

I don't know if you go back this far, but do you know what everyone in state HS athletics was saying back in the late '60s? "We don't have a true state champ. How can a state not have true state champions?"

So in 1972, the PIAA did something about that. And I, for one, sure don't want to go back to the way it was before. I don't want the kid who wrestles for Bishop McCort to run the table and then have people say, "Well, he's not really the state champion." And don't tell me a kid like Trinity's Owen Schlager doesn't deserve a chance to play for a state basketball championship that encompasses all the schools of that size.

Do whatever needs to be done to address the public/private issue -- short of what you're saying.. And you know, nobody ever promised Johnny a state championship, and he wasn't even promised a perfectly square playing field. A lot of people don't seem to get that. Maybe the public school which wants that gold medal so bad needs to ... get better.

I think I'll save that last sentence in a stored key to be used when we argue again about running up the score.

LOL

[IUPNation]

They have that and it's called National Preps.

But if you segregate the public’s from the privates..who gets the crown of State Champions?

It seems like some on here don’t think private school should be given the honor of being called state champions. My Catholic High school was routinely destroyed by Norristown High in sports. So it’s hard for me to accept the whining about St Joes or Bethlehem Catholic when most Catholic High school were like mine and couldn’t compete with the public high school in funding and facilities. Not only did Norristown destroy us in foosball ever season, we had to pay them to use their stadium as our home field.

Bishop Shanahan is in Downingtown. It’s in the same league as state ranked Downingtown East and West. They got steamrolled by both by a total score of 80-7.

The power house privates are the exception..and there needs to be a way to classify them so they aren’t dominating schools they shouldn’t be dominating.

[EastStroud13]

I physically cringed when I saw this.

No.

I don't know if you go back this far, but do you know what everyone in state HS athletics was saying back in the late '60s? "We don't have a true state champ. How can a state not have true state champions?"

So in 1972, the PIAA did something about that. And I, for one, sure don't want to go back to the way it was before. I don't want the kid who wrestles for Bishop McCort to run the table and then have people say, "Well, he's not really the state champion." And don't tell me a kid like Trinity's Owen Schlager doesn't deserve a chance to play for a state basketball championship that encompasses all the schools of that size.

Do whatever needs to be done to address the public/private issue -- short of what you're saying.. And you know, nobody ever promised Johnny a state championship, and he wasn't even promised a perfectly square playing field. A lot of people don't seem to get that. Maybe the public school which wants that gold medal so bad needs to ... get better.

I think I'll save that last sentence in a stored key to be used when we argue again about running up the score.

This seems impressively off-base. High school sports in the late '60s were different in almost every way compared to now. Classifications are a well-established part of the state's high school sports fabric at this point. High schoolers are getting recruited by universities earlier and earlier. Athletes are jockeying for NIL deals.

I don't know how you can seriously use an era from over 50 years ago as part of your argument.

EDIT: Based on the amount of replies this one post has spawned, I think it is fair to count this as this message board's equivalent of "getting ratio'd".

[jrshooter]

So you're saying your opinion is dictated by how many of the cool kids agree with you? That's ... special.

Hey, I'm sorry if you disagree. You have that right. But I'm a lot closer to how IUPNation looks at it than how you all look at it. And I'm not changing the outlook because a bunch of message-board acquaintances don't buy into it.

But if y'all want a private-school champion, knock on your state lawmakers' doors. I'm sure you'll find someone to do your bidding for you. I hear Doug Mastriano is looking for a good cause.

[EastStroud13]

So you're saying your opinion is dictated by how many of the cool kids agree with you? That's ... special.

Hey, I'm sorry if you disagree. You have that right. But I'm a lot closer to how IUPNation looks at it than how you all look at it. And I'm not changing the outlook because a bunch of message-board acquaintances don't buy into it.

But if y'all want a private-school champion, knock on your state lawmakers' doors. I'm sure you'll find someone to do your bidding for you. I hear Doug Mastriano is looking for a good cause.

Not sure if being closer to IUPNation should be a point of pride. And not sure you should be invoking a clown like Doug Mastriano in this debate either, that instantly loses you any credibility you might have otherwise had.

[jrshooter]

Not sure if being closer to IUPNation should be a point of pride. And not sure you should be invoking a clown like Doug Mastriano in this debate either, that instantly loses you any credibility you might have otherwise had.

Uh ...

[EastStroud13]

Boy, did THAT point ever sail over your head.

I suppose so. I'll take it from you, the expert in that field.

[IUPNation]

Not sure if being closer to IUPNation should be a point of pride. And not sure you should be invoking a clown like Doug Mastriano in this debate either, that instantly loses you any credibility you might have otherwise had.

Says the one who has me blocked because they mentally can't hang....

[Ram040506]

So you're saying your opinion is dictated by how many of the cool kids agree with you? That's ... special.

Hey, I'm sorry if you disagree. You have that right. But I'm a lot closer to how IUPNation looks at it than how you all look at it. And I'm not changing the outlook because a bunch of message-board acquaintances don't buy into it.

But if y'all want a private-school champion, knock on your state lawmakers' doors. I'm sure you'll find someone to do your bidding for you. I hear Doug Mastriano is looking for a good cause.

I'm from Maryland, Publics and Privates are separate and for good reason. There has always been a gripe about the privates being able to join the state playoffs in a way, but in the last 10-20 years, you don't hear it at all anymore. The privates just have a HUGE advantage in recruiting, even the top 2 4A programs of the last decade struggle to beat the middle of the conference teams that are private. Referencing Quince Orchard HS in Montgomer and Henry Wise HS in PG county. These virtually beat the hell out of every public school in the state, but when they occasionally schedule a private school for a game or scrimmage, the difference in line play is almost JV to Varsity.

Long story short, I think they should be separate and should have never been combined in the first place. If that makes me a "everyone gets a trophy type" then so be it. It's just not a level playing field and anyone who thinks otherwise is just being ignorant.

[Ram040506]

For the title of this thread, if I had a vote, I'd say team wise exclude the privates and publics separately. But for Wrestling, on the individual title basis, let them all compete so they can find out who is the true state champion in each weight class. Wrestling is unique in that way, you can throw away every classification and really settle who is the best.

[iupgroundhog]

But the boasting is part of sports...so how do they both get to boast?

I think that's a telling perspective.

[IUPNation]

For the title of this thread, if I had a vote, I'd say team wise exclude the privates and publics separately. But for Wrestling, on the individual title basis, let them all compete so they can find out who is the true state champion in each weight class. Wrestling is unique in that way, you can throw away every classification and really settle who is the best.

This sounds too smart…

[IUPNation]

I think that's a telling perspective.

But you know if the privates get booted and only public’s compete in the PIAA tournaments, the public’s will claim only they are the best in the state and it might not be true.

So they would have to be called the Public school champions and not THE state champions. Are you okay with that?

[iupgroundhog]

But you know if the privates get booted and only public’s compete in the PIAA tournaments, the public’s will claim only they are the best in the state and it might not be true.

So they would have to be called the Public school champions and not THE state champions. Are you okay with that?

Well, they would be called the PIAA champions for whichever level they won.

1) There are already multiple state champions because there are multiple levels so, in my opinion, your point is moot.
2) Public and private operate on two sets of rules.
3) The results reflect the reality of the situation. The results don't lie.