WT Football

[BuffTough]

Moving divisions Like D1 or D2 or D2 to D3? If you listen to McBroom and Wendler on youtube interviews you could offer WT a multi million dollar ESPN deal to move to the southland and they would politely say no thanks we are good with road trips to Alpine.

I said on other threads McBroom could change his tune when Wendler retires and if the next university president is more bullish on football.

Based off his comments he seems to acknowledge that WT has the ability move up and the funding. What he acknowledges is that it's an ever changing landscape and WT needs to be mindful of that. (This is very much a different perspective from previous years) He also states that he thinks there will be a new tier of college athletics a mid major championship series and that's when WT would move up. Like FCS but across all sports he wants WT to compete for championships not be a doormat against teams with 100x more funding. (Again this is all new and definitely a shift). What's more valuable a Southland conference title or a Division 2 National Championship? Also WT to bring back tennis.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

Based off his comments he seems to acknowledge that WT has the ability move up and the funding. What he acknowledges is that it's an ever changing landscape and WT needs to be mindful of that. (This is very much a different perspective from previous years) He also states that he thinks there will be a new tier of college athletics a mid major championship series and that's when WT would move up. Like FCS but across all sports he wants WT to compete for championships not be a doormat against teams with 100x more funding. (Again this is all new and definitely a shift). What's more valuable a Southland conference title or a Division 2 National Championship? Also WT to bring back tennis.

I guess I don't get where D2 football moving up to FCS is an automatic death sentence. North Dakota State and Incarnate Word were recently D2 and were both in the final 4 last year. Of course North Dakota State is a dynasty now. Southland conference title in all major sports is better by a mile. When Texas A&M-Corpus Christi made the NCAA basketball tournament in 2006 and 2022, It was free advertising on social media and national TV. ACU benefitted from that a few years ago. Even ESPN gameday makes an occasional trip to an FCS campus. Very few fans are going to remember if ACU won a D2 mens basketball championship and/or have a banner hanging in the gym (they dont) but tons of fans remember they beat Texas in the NCAA tournament a couple of years ago and probably brought in more money based on playing 2 games (Texas and UCLA). Bringing back tennis is a great thing. Panhandle routinely brings home state championships and its been hard to see that talent go to college other places.

[Predatory Primates]

NDSU was a d1 school playing in d2 for a really long time. That said,, they have been d1 for about 20 years, so I wouldn't call that a recent move.

I am kind of torn on the whole thing.
on one hand, I dislike the idea of teams who choose to play at a level they never plan to compete at. Every level is full of teams who are only playing at that division out of vanity and are doing nothing to attempt to compete.

Otoh, it is more forgivable at the lower levels because sports are only a part of the college experience.

Fbs and d1 basketball are professional sports, and really shouldn't be tied to schools at all.

Pitting true, amateur college teams against that week in and week out, in the hopes that they don't get mauled 1 year out every 20 is a dangerous and irresponsible level of greed. Schools who move up do that should have all of their administration tortured publicly to discourage others.

[BuffaloChip]

Today I went to practice. My 2nd. The teams were in headgears and shoulder pads. I watched Lynn work the OL. I love the teaching, drills, and sophisticated schemes he had them running. Very brisk workout. Before they headed for O against D scrimmage, the OL and DL had a challenge contest. Very entertaining. Very competitive. The final round came down to the loser group doing the push-ups. The best DL went up against the best OL. The DL got pancaked. The OL group went crazy! It was a lot of fun to watch.

The scrimmage was interesting. We rolled out our new 13 on 13 scheme (just kidding-ha!). The offense was cooking pretty good. 3 pass and 4 rush TDs. 2 dropped pass TDs. I like the offense so far. More misdirection, quick inside traps, QB pass/run option plays. A couple of the freshmen QBs made plays, both with their legs and their arms. (I don't know who they were).

Going to practice tomorrow.

The freshmen QBs who really flashed were (especially) Ashton Dubose (San Antonio Brennan) and Canon Gibson (Wink). I noticed Dubose at the Tuesday practice. He's quick and has a big arm with a very nice spin. I think he's like 6'2 190. Very athletic. He's an all-time leading San Antonio area passer. Got a twin brother WR on the team..

[Brandon]

I guess I don't get where D2 football moving up to FCS is an automatic death sentence. North Dakota State and Incarnate Word were recently D2 and were both in the final 4 last year. Of course North Dakota State is a dynasty now. Southland conference title in all major sports is better by a mile. When Texas A&M-Corpus Christi made the NCAA basketball tournament in 2006 and 2022, It was free advertising on social media and national TV. ACU benefitted from that a few years ago. Even ESPN gameday makes an occasional trip to an FCS campus. Very few fans are going to remember if ACU won a D2 mens basketball championship and/or have a banner hanging in the gym (they dont) but tons of fans remember they beat Texas in the NCAA tournament a couple of years ago and probably brought in more money based on playing 2 games (Texas and UCLA). Bringing back tennis is a great thing. Panhandle routinely brings home state championships and its been hard to see that talent go to college other places.

According to this logic, every powerball winner disproves the foolishness of purchasing a ticket. The fact that no one ever mentions Northern Colorado, North Dakota, South Dakota, or North Alabama (etc.) in their narrative framing demonstrates the real risk involved in reclassification.

The only place a Southland Conference title has any cachet might be in Corpus Christi or maybe Texas, but it's not highly regarded even in FCS circles. If your goal is only to chase clout in Texas, you might have a point. Otherwise, you're way off base.

You're either Power 5 or you're not. Most fans view a Lone Star championship and a Southland championship as being similar.

A professional talent evaluator was on the radio yesterday and talked about a player from Western Michigan playing at a "lower level." I laughed.

[exbuff72]

A question for the MIAA guys, how many players would UN-K have in opening practice?

[Predatory Primates]

A question for the MIAA guys, how many players would UN-K have in opening practice?

There were 121 guys on their roster at the end of last season. 120 to 130 is fairly typical in the MIAA.

I just looked at Pitt unk, and emporia

123, 121, 119

[Predatory Primates]

Hays has 149, nw has 136

[Predatory Primates]

Unk this year has 132

[Predatory Primates]

Looked at tamuk and grand vallvalley h are in the 120s or 130s

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

According to this logic, every powerball winner disproves the foolishness of purchasing a ticket. The fact that no one ever mentions Northern Colorado, North Dakota, South Dakota, or North Alabama (etc.) in their narrative framing demonstrates the real risk involved in reclassification.

The only place a Southland Conference title has any cachet might be in Corpus Christi or maybe Texas, but it's not highly regarded even in FCS circles. If your goal is only to chase clout in Texas, you might have a point. Otherwise, you're way off base.

You're either Power 5 or you're not. Most fans view a Lone Star championship and a Southland championship as being similar.

A professional talent evaluator was on the radio yesterday and talked about a player from Western Michigan playing at a "lower level." I laughed.

Yup I agree there will be schools that struggle. That's why I like FCS. Lower level football than FBS but can also be competitive in other sports. North Dakota has made the NCAA tournament multiple times and has even won a game that I recall. Lone Star and Southland are similar but winning the lone star or any other division in D2 doesn't get you national exposure. When was the last time a first round D2 basketball, baseball, or heck even a football game televised other than espn Ocho? You and tons of people love to use that power 5 strawman. It's only a few schools out of each conference that are nationally competitive. When has Washington State, California, Northwestern, Kansas State, Boston College, and Texas A&M consistently played for national championships in football or any other sport for that matter?

I know d2 is you and a lot of other posters things and that's awesome. Its mine too. At a certain point how much fun is it watching D2 get diluted down to the point where you are taking road trips to places that barely show up on googlemaps in Texas?

[Brandon]

Yup I agree there will be schools that struggle. That's why I like FCS. Lower level football than FBS but can also be competitive in other sports. North Dakota has made the NCAA tournament multiple times and has even won a game that I recall. Lone Star and Southland are similar but winning the lone star or any other division in D2 doesn't get you national exposure. When was the last time a first round D2 basketball, baseball, or heck even a football game televised other than espn Ocho? You and tons of people love to use that power 5 strawman. It's only a few schools out of each conference that are nationally competitive. When has Washington State, California, Northwestern, Kansas State, Boston College, and Texas A&M consistently played for national championships in football or any other sport for that matter?

I know d2 is you and a lot of other posters things and that's awesome. Its mine too. At a certain point how much fun is it watching D2 get diluted down to the point where you are taking road trips to places that barely show up on googlemaps in Texas?

It's not a strawman. It's the perception of most of America.

Winning the Southland doesn't garner national exposure outside the mention that the team received the auto-bid in basketball. No one outside of the local Southland market and the market of the blue blood that's kicking their ass sees the game.

UND made the tournament once and lost in the first round to Arizona.

There will be also-rans at every level. That's the nature of competition. Essentially, it's your position that WT should play at a level where they won't be nationally competitive a majority of the time and spend a minimum of $15 million more a year to be slightly more recognizable. I disagree that the cost is worth it.

[Great White Buffalo]

It's not a strawman. It's the perception of most of America.

Winning the Southland doesn't garner national exposure outside the mention that the team received the auto-bid in basketball. No one outside of the local Southland market and the market of the blue blood that's kicking their ass sees the game.

UND made the tournament once and lost in the first round to Arizona.

There will be also-rans at every level. That's the nature of competition. Essentially, it's your position that WT should play at a level where they won't be nationally competitive a majority of the time and spend a minimum of $15 million more a year to be slightly more recognizable. I disagree that the cost is worth it.

I agree with you, thank you.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

It's not a strawman. It's the perception of most of America.

Winning the Southland doesn't garner national exposure outside the mention that the team received the auto-bid in basketball. No one outside of the local Southland market and the market of the blue blood that's kicking their ass sees the game.

UND made the tournament once and lost in the first round to Arizona.

There will be also-rans at every level. That's the nature of competition. Essentially, it's your position that WT should play at a level where they won't be nationally competitive a majority of the time and spend a minimum of $15 million more a year to be slightly more recognizable. I disagree that the cost is worth it.

Majority of the time yes but most sports fans can tell you that St. Peters made the elite 8 in 2022 and 99% wouldn't be able to tell you (or care) who won the D2 championship.

In baseball you can have a stud pitcher overlooked that can take you to a super regional or college world series (stony brook, coastal carolina, etc.).

Maybe it was North Dakota State that had a tournament win.

I looked up some of the southland budgets. Doing the math Nicholls State operates on half that budget. Probably not ideal but....

I would love to see the Power 5 schools get the top 100 universities and leave all the rest to amateur athletics the way it was meant to be in a perfect world.

I guess its hard for me as a kid watching WT play Division 1 schools like OSU (beating them in 1980) and now watching the LSC struggle settling for teams based in Silver City, Alpine, and for a while in Canada.

Even harder to watch the old rivalries leave (ACU, Tarleton, and Commerce).

We both have great points. Fortunately for you and other WT fans on this board, WT has the type of leadership that likes to keep it quiet and status quo.

Either way go buffs.

[Predatory Primates]

I think it's important to realize just how much the business behind the game has changed since the 80's.


Okie state had fallen way behind big brother OU through the 80's and 90s. T Boone and others didn't start throwing real money at OSU to make them competitive until the 2000s.

Unless WT has several of those big time donors, they will never compete with where OSU was in the early 2000's.

Step forward 20 years, and you need about 4 times that level of money plus a collective that guarantees nil money to every walk on and scholly player in every sport. Then you can start to compete at the level of an Oklahoma state.


I am torn on the power 5 leaving. I think it's 50/50. It could revive college football, or it could turn the rest of college football into a niche pursuit with a very small overall following like D2 is now.