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  • Originally posted by Scrub View Post

    Half serious response to your question:

    Who's the middle-of-the-circle guy during the pre-game breakdown now that Primmer is out? Last year Primmer was the rah-rah guy. Who's the "face of intensity" this year? And typically, it's been a second-5 guy (like Lamberti during his time here) who sorta rallies the first-5. Wonder who that guy is this year.
    LOL. A non trivial question. Not sure. Marlon Moore, even if he is first platoon? But who does the intros?

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    • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
      AHHHH HAAAA!!! I KNEW you secretly LOVED you some Topper Basketball! Hahahahaha!!
      Don't fool yourself. They played here three games. The first two games were highly entertaining. The third one not so much.

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      • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

        Here's an offseason sort of question. Saint Crutch has turned Nova SE into a power in two short years. Cardinal Howlett is the primary acolyte of Crutch and given how WLU did not miss a beat after Crutch left, clearly Ben is almost (99.99%) as "good" as Crutch in recruiting to, implementing and running the "WLU System."

        Soooooo, given Crutch's success at Nova, would Ben be able to do the same and turn a different down trodden DII program into a Top 5 program within two years??

        As you move up the Crutch coaching tree, who among the current crop of assistants would be able to be successful implementing the WLU System if given the chance after this coming year? Tree's main branch obviously is Ben but it also includes:

        Cardinal Aaron Huffman
        Cardinal Jordan Fee
        Cardinal Devin Hoehn
        Bishop Mike Lamberti (Howlett branch of the Crutch tree)
        Bishop Brett Ervin (Howlett branch of the Crutch tree)
        Interesting question.
        devin - needs more experience as game day coach
        Brett- non wlu grad who only coached one year in system. Probably has sights set on d1 job.

        Jordan has experience but only 2 years coaching with crutchfield. Good recruiter I would assume.
        mike only has 1 year coaching with Ben but would also be a great choice in a couple of years

        Huffman would be a great choice if he were interested in a head coaching position.


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        • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

          Here's an offseason sort of question. Saint Crutch has turned Nova SE into a power in two short years. Cardinal Howlett is the primary acolyte of Crutch and given how WLU did not miss a beat after Crutch left, clearly Ben is almost (99.99%) as "good" as Crutch in recruiting to, implementing and running the "WLU System."

          Soooooo, given Crutch's success at Nova, would Ben be able to do the same and turn a different down trodden DII program into a Top 5 program within two years??

          As you move up the Crutch coaching tree, who among the current crop of assistants would be able to be successful implementing the WLU System if given the chance after this coming year? Tree's main branch obviously is Ben but it also includes:

          Cardinal Aaron Huffman
          Cardinal Jordan Fee
          Cardinal Devin Hoehn
          Bishop Mike Lamberti (Howlett branch of the Crutch tree)
          Bishop Brett Ervin (Howlett branch of the Crutch tree)
          Berti

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          • Comment


            • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post

              what is needed is to have a d1 school to implement it to prove if it can be work at d1.
              At D1, I think it would be very difficult to find 10 guys willing to share minutes and play selfless basketball. That's why it's the ideal system for D2. Even mid-major D1 players all think they're going NBA. Crutch perfected the strategy of recruiting guys who are, for the most part, in love with the game, interested in their educations, and realistic about their futures. Finding D1 bodies with those three mental qualities would be darn near impossible IMO.

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              • Originally posted by Scrub View Post

                At D1, I think it would be very difficult to find 10 guys willing to share minutes and play selfless basketball. That's why it's the ideal system for D2. Even mid-major D1 players all think they're going NBA. Crutch perfected the strategy of recruiting guys who are, for the most part, in love with the game, interested in their educations, and realistic about their futures. Finding D1 bodies with those three mental qualities would be darn near impossible IMO.
                I think in theory it could be done at a high D1, but doing it would present a unique set of challenges that are largely not present at a DII (or low D1). A lot of the issues would be driven by the irational fan and alumni base's that haunt D1 programs...even BAD D1 programs.

                1. The WLU System required COMPLETE buy in...Can't do it "part-time" or as a "package." As you point out, almost all D1 players BELIEVE that they can make the NBA if they can just get someone to look at THEM. And you don't get people to look at you by passing and playing defense. Guys like this are cancer to the WLU System and would need to be cut out agressively...no matter what they did last year. Also, fans and alum's would be highly resistent to scrapping a "traditional" style to install a "gadget" style that depended on passing, spacing, shooting and defense to be successful (Yea...funny that a style that depends on basketball fundimentals is now seen as a gadget system!)
                2. Typically requires a nearly complete turnover of players. Fan base would HOWL when last years "third team all-conference point guard" left the team to be replaced by a skinny 6'1" gym rat who "no one" wanted...And there are a LOT more fans of D1 programs than there are DII's!!
                3. The recruits and team is made up players who aren't the most athleticaly gifted. WLU System doesn't really require highly recruited players or those with many stars after their name to be successful. BUUUUTTTT...DONORS demand this before they give their money to the program. You have a team made up of "no-name" gym rat type players who don't "look" like the high flying gazels on the other teams and donors are going to hold their money.
                4. The system needs players who will be there for at least four years. This is probably more a high D1 issue as opposed to a lower D1 one. It typically takes a few years before a player becomes expert in the WLU System. A one and done is not going to be able to master it in one pre season of work.

                For the WLU System to be successfully implimented at a high D1 and at a lot of low D1's it would need to be successfull from day 1. And I'm not talking about successful as in taking a 5-30 team to .500...no, I'm talking taking a 5-30 team on a 10 game winning streak to start the season, going 30-5 on the season AND winning the conference tourney level of success!! Don't do that and the "traditionalists" in the alumni and donor base will rally against the new coach and his "crazy" ideas and probably succeed in getting him fired.

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                • But all of the things you mention, Boat, are what make it an ingenious system for D2. It's like the "Moneyball" approach--exploit a market inefficiency. No one is out there looking for 6'1" gym rats with high IQs. Instead, they're out there looking for the guy who can jump out of the gym. So Crutch maximized that market inefficiency to utilize those underappreciated pieces to build a winning system.

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                  • Originally posted by Scrub View Post
                    But all of the things you mention, Boat, are what make it an ingenious system for D2. It's like the "Moneyball" approach--exploit a market inefficiency. No one is out there looking for 6'1" gym rats with high IQs. Instead, they're out there looking for the guy who can jump out of the gym. So Crutch maximized that market inefficiency to utilize those underappreciated pieces to build a winning system.
                    Scrub, you and boat made really good points! I agree completely.
                    ??????the root cause of many barriers seems to be the lure of the NBA fantasy and the huge money demands for d1 which cedes inordinate power to wealthy boosters that requires that u win now.

                    Maybe it could start at low d1, supported by boosters who love the purity of the style. Then it might gradually spread. Today AAU and shoe companies influence elite players to be non team players.

                    Also it is really really hard to play this style. Former players have confirmed that recruits would arrive, anxious to commit... Until they played in open gym. Then they realized they could not step up to the demands of the style. Takes a special player.
                    Probably would attract a lot of coach's sons at d1.


                    Even today wlu rarely gets elite d2 players, although more are visiting. In watching the pre-game warmup, a newcomer would think the opponent was going to destroy them with their superior raw athletic skills.

                    As st crutch once said, "we have not won a pre-game warm-up yet!"

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                    • Originally posted by Scrub View Post
                      But all of the things you mention, Boat, are what make it an ingenious system for D2. It's like the "Moneyball" approach--exploit a market inefficiency. No one is out there looking for 6'1" gym rats with high IQs. Instead, they're out there looking for the guy who can jump out of the gym. So Crutch maximized that market inefficiency to utilize those underappreciated pieces to build a winning system.
                      Very good observations Scrub and Columbus. Love the Moneyball comparison about market inefficiency. Just as with analitics in baseball, the "experts" were hyper critical of how WLU played. But I note that Crutch's success in turning Nova into a winner coupled with Ben's ability to keep WLU chugging along have sort of silenced these experts a little. They still aren't willing to admit that the system is just as good as the "traditional" styles they think are the "right" ways to play, but they at least don't seem to be calling it a "gadget" system anymore.

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                      • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                        Very good observations Scrub and Columbus. Love the Moneyball comparison about market inefficiency. Just as with analitics in baseball, the "experts" were hyper critical of how WLU played. But I note that Crutch's success in turning Nova into a winner coupled with Ben's ability to keep WLU chugging along have sort of silenced these experts a little. They still aren't willing to admit that the system is just as good as the "traditional" styles they think are the "right" ways to play, but they at least don't seem to be calling it a "gadget" system anymore.
                        Good observation about critics going silent. With the population in Florida and the campus location, st. Crutch just might create a d2 monster! Great athletes there and nova seems to have a pipeline to Europe too.

                        Ben is also upgrading the recruiting each year too. I can dream about them meeting in the finals and the country would finally learn about the style!

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                        • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post

                          Interesting question.
                          devin - needs more experience as game day coach
                          Brett- non wlu grad who only coached one year in system. Probably has sights set on d1 job.

                          Jordan has experience but only 2 years coaching with crutchfield. Good recruiter I would assume.
                          mike only has 1 year coaching with Ben but would also be a great choice in a couple of years

                          Huffman would be a great choice if he were interested in a head coaching position.

                          Outside of Huffman, I think Fee is the most "game ready" to be a HC and implement the WLU Style. He played two years under Crutch and then spent one year as a grad assistant at WLU. This coming season will be is fourth under Crutch (one as a GA at WLU and three at Nova).

                          I think Lamberti and Hoehn will need a few more years under Crutch and Ben's tutelage before they are ready to take the WLU Style to another program

                          Ervin is sort of a wild card. Only one year under Ben but maybe he learned enough to realize that the WLU Style is a road map to success. Because of his career success outside of the year he spent at WLU, he might be the first to get a HC gig and that gig might possibly be at a D1 IF it is at a D1 and IF he implements the full WLU Style, it could be our first opportunity to see if it works at the D1 level.

                          Another WLU alumni in the college coaching ranks - Brandon Smith (Class of 17) - Assistant at Glenville after one year as an assistant at Fairmont.
                          Last edited by boatcapt; 10-14-2019, 11:43 AM.

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                          • Thanks for info!
                            4.1 gpa 28 ACT 30 ppg and 15 rpg. Impressive. High motor, smart player who can slash to basket in traffic or hit the deep 3. Seems like wlu is a great fit for him!

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                            • led his team to first conference title. He could approach 2000 points before he graduates. Wow!

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