West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[Columbuseer]

Fyi - interesting article about jp dragas and his recruiting visit to wlu before he signed.
https://www.starbeacon.com/sports/ma...16553a0b1.html

[Columbuseer]

FYI

A Dummy’s Observations on WLU vs Glenville 1/20/23 WLU 114-78

GSU Game Plan
The new coach for GSU is a legend in southern WV, having won the NIAA national championship at Mountain State University and has won over 500 games. He has a good eye for athletic talent as he has recruited far and wide for players. For example, Dominique Penn, son of OSU star Scoonie Penn and NBA assistant coach, played at D1 Univ Washington and Seattle Univ before GSU. Collins, a 6-8 player who years ago verbally committed to WLU for about 2- or 3-days before winding up at Marshall and then at Pikeville KY last year is a mobile big who can shoot the three. Returnee Turbo Smith is one of the better guards in the MEC. GSU plays a deep bench, which could delay or mitigate the onset of fatigue against the WLU pressure.
With his bench and athletes, his game plan was to run with WLU in an open court, transition game. Their guards had the green light to shoot threes in transition with no one under. They will also attack the rim in dribble drives.
First Half
Turbo Smith for GSU and Montague from WLU were on fire from three. The difference was Turbo was launching in transition with no one under. In contrast, Montague was getting great open looks, primarily from kick out passes from his teammates.
GSU played their starting five over 6 minutes before subbing 3 players. At the time the WLU lead was 3.
Smith played 8.5 mins and Penn played nearly 10 minutes before subbing out. At around the 9:25 minute mark, the WLU lead was 12 and GSU had already committed 11 turnovers. The lead continued to grow to 22 with 1:39 left.
WLU was moving the ball quickly on offense, driving to collapse the defense and then finding the teammate for wide open looks from three. WLU had 5 secondary assists, which indicated GSU was getting a step slow on their rotations from fatigue. By the half WLU had forced 18 turnovers and led by 19 at 59-40.
Second Half
WLU hit a cold spell, where they only scored 7 points in nearly 7.5 minutes. In a testament to WLU’s defense, GSU only narrowed the halftime lead by 4 points in that time span. GSU could not get closer than 15 down, when they lost their legs and the lead stretched to 21 at the 9:25 mark. The fatigue increased, resulting in a 30-point lead at the 4:48 mark.
In the second half, as the game got beyond the reach of GSU, I thought GSU got a little chippy. After a steal by Fergus, Collins fouled Fergus in the lower leg with his leg, which the ref missed because he was looking at the upper body for contact. Hinds took a hard elbow to the ribs after he committed a reach in foul. With the shot clock off, WLU called off the dogs, as is customary. As WLU dribbling out the clock, Turbo Smith left his man and ran across the court to try to steal the ball from behind. He was called for a foul. After that bush league play, the dogs were called back. WLU passed the ball inbounds to West, who buried a three. A fitting end to the game.

Keys to the game:

• Glenville did not have the quality depth to counter the WLU pressure. IMHO, they played their starters too long before giving them a break. They have talent, but still lack cohesion.
• WLU roster made significant strides as a team in this game. The new players, both guards and forwards, greatly reduced their difficult shot attempts, while finding a teammate for a great shot. The style is starting to become second nature. They have not approached their ceiling.
• WLU moved the ball much better, resulting in an outstanding 2.33 assist to turnover ratio, 28 assists and an elite offensive rating of 128 points per 100 possessions and team shooting efficiency of 60%.
• WLU played solid defense, causing shot clock violations and several 5 second calls. Glenville's offensive rating was 90 pts per 100 possessions, which indicates great WLU defense. 58% of Glenville's 31 turnovers were live ball turnovers.
• IMHO, Shuler, Fergus and Korte draw attention from multiple defenders when they have the ball in their hands, which allows their teammates to back cut for easy shots or receive kick outs for open looks from three. In particular, Fergus would have had 3 or 4 more assists, had his teammates ben able to convert an easy shot.
• Fergus’ defense is improving as he had 4 steals. In the press he, like Shuler, is like a free safety, watching the passer’s eyes and jumping into the passing lane.
• We have several players who will pick your pocket or intercept your pass in the back court in Montague, Spadafora, Shuler, Fergus and Rasile.
• Our goal defending bigs in the press did a great job of managing some 2 on 1 attacks against them, forcing them into bad passes, which prevented dunks.
• Multiple players had great shooting nights. Montague had an effective FG% of 115%, while Spadafora was 77%, Shuler was 65% and Woodward was 60%, followed by Rasile at 55% and Fergus at 50%.

Effective FG %
This stat weighs the value of the 3-point shot 50% more than a 2-pt shot, which allows more effective comparison with post players, etc. A perfect score for a 2-pt shooter who does not miss is 100%. However, if the shooter only shoots threes and never misses, the maximum possible value is 150%. Here were the top effective shooters for WLU:

Box Score

number	Player	Minutes	FGM	FGA	FG%	3PT	3PTA	3PT%	FTM	FTA	FT%	PTS	Effective FG%
01	Montague, Christian	20	8	10	80.0%	7	9	77.8%	0	0	0.0%	23	115.0%
10	Spadafora, Dante	19	5	9	55.6%	4	6	66.7%	2	3	66.7%	16	77.8%
04	Shuler, Lanyc	18	6	10	60.0%	1	4	25.0%	2	2	100.0%	15	65.0%
03	Woodward, Finley	19	3	5	60.0%	0	0	0.0%	0	0	0.0%	6	60.0%
25	Rasile, Zach	20	4	10	40.0%	3	9	33.3%	1	1	100.0%	12	55.0%
02	Fergus, Darren	15	2	4	50.0%	0	0	0.0%	0	0	0.0%	4	50.0%
23	West, Alek	20	2	7	28.6%	2	5	40.0%	0	0	0.0%	6	42.9%
24	Sarson, Ben	19	3	9	33.3%	0	3	0.0%	4	5	80.0%	10	33.3%
05	Korte, John	18	1	3	33.3%	0	1	0.0%	7	8	87.5%	9	33.3%
13	Daugustino, Kyler	16	0	5	0.0%	0	1	0.0%	0	0	0.0%	0	0.0%
11	Barnhart, Grant	3	0	2	0.0%	0	0	0.0%	0	0	0.0%	2	0.0%

Advanced Game Stats

Statistic	WLU 1/20/24	Glenville
Factor	0.44	0.44
FGM	39	25
FGA	82	56
FTM	16	20
FTA	19	26
Three Point FGM	20	8
three Point FGA	45	25
Off REB	12	9
Def REB	23	32
Total REB	35	41
Assists	28	15
Turnovers	12	31
Steals	18	4
Turnovers Forced	31	12
Points	114	78
Games Played	1	1
Number of Possessions	89	87
Pts per Possession	1.28	0.90
Offensive Rating - pts/100 possessions	128	90
Shooting Efficiency (FGM +0.5*3ptFGM)/FGA	60%	52%
FT %	84%	77%
3PT%	44%	32%
2PT%	51%	55%
Turnovers Per Game	12	31
Turnover %	13%	36%
Percent Forced Live Ball Turnovers	58%	33%
Assists % of FG Made	31%	17%
Assist to Turnover Ratio	2.33	0.48

[boatcapt]

Fyi - interesting article about jp dragas and his recruiting visit to wlu before he signed.
https://www.starbeacon.com/sports/ma...16553a0b1.html

Good article. Some small concerns...he expected to have a list of offers an arm long. Reading into that, when WLU came in late and offered him, he jumped on it. Makes me wonder what he will do if a D1 expresses interest? As his father told him, it only takes one!

[Columbuseer]

Good article. Some small concerns...he expected to have a list of offers an arm long. Reading into that, when WLU came in late and offered him, he jumped on it. Makes me wonder what he will do if a D1 expresses interest? As his father told him, it only takes one!

I guess anything is possible these days. Some positives:
- he likes the wlu style.
- he likes the school academically.
- 4.3 gpa and high basketball iq is usually not a good fit for aau style give me the rock bottom feeder d1 schools
- his physical size is better suited for d2 than the much more physical mid major d1 game.
- he may have gotten lower d1 interest but it wasn't a good fit. We don't know who offered.
- dad is AD of his school. Parents who are coaches or former college players "get it" that the wlu style is good training for europe.

[boatcapt]

WLU had another hard to tell much game Wed night vs Salem. Toppers won handily 112-72. Salem was out gunned and out classed from the opening tip.

Salem is struggling as the AB "stand in." If this season is their "MEC audition," the MEC would be better served looking elsewhere.

[boatcapt]

WLU ended up winning the battle of the boards (which is surprising given that Concord leads the nation in rebounding).

Curious, though, that May took so long to slow down. Concord decided to run with WLU for the whole first half to the tune of a 20-point deficit. But once May decided to slow the pace and exploit size mismatches in the second half, it was an evenly played game. Had he gone there from the start (rather than playing from a 20-point hole), I'm not sure whether WLU comes out with a win.

Coaches hate to change what they do. They figure if they just do it harder or better, eventually they will break through. Typically, as with this game, they don't change until it's too late.

[Columbuseer]

WLU had another hard to tell much game Wed night vs Salem. Toppers won handily 112-72. Salem was out gunned and out classed from the opening tip.

Salem is struggling as the AB "stand in." If this season is their "MEC audition," the MEC would be better served looking elsewhere.

I think their low enrollment could be a barrier to entry at 782 (fall 2022). We already have a couple of existing schools in that situation.

[boatcapt]

I think their low enrollment could be a barrier to entry at 782 (fall 2022). We already have a couple of existing schools in that situation.

Bylaws stat the minimum FTE enrollment for new members is 1000. Also states new members must meet "Core Sports" sponsorship which includes football. Clearly the conf is not requiring new schools to meet the Core Sports requirement (D&E and now Point Park) so I guess they could equally ignore the 1000 FTE student "requirement."

Seems like we're in make it up as we go mode.

[Columbuseer]

Bylaws stat the minimum FTE enrollment for new members is 1000. Also states new members must meet "Core Sports" sponsorship which includes football. Clearly the conf is not requiring new schools to meet the Core Sports requirement (D&E and now Point Park) so I guess they could equally ignore the 1000 FTE student "requirement."

Seems like we're in make it up as we go mode.

I wonder if football will disappear as a core requirement. Big money loser in d2 with median loss of $1+M a year, according to one study. If alumni could set aside tradition, it makes financial sense to drop it and pick up lower cost sports.

Imho once enrollment falls below 1000, schools lose critical mass to remain solvent in the long term, unless they have a huge endowment.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I wonder if football will disappear as a core requirement. Big money loser in d2 with median loss of $1+M a year, according to one study. If alumni could set aside tradition, it makes financial sense to drop it and pick up lower cost sports.

Imho once enrollment falls below 1000, schools lose critical mass to remain solvent in the long term, unless they have a huge endowment.

I'd love to see that study if you have it.

To be honest, I find it shocking - especially considering how many of the players are paying their own way.

[Columbuseer]

I think their low enrollment could be a barrier to entry at 782 (fall 2022). We already have a couple of existing schools in that situation.

Google Ncaa study football costs d2 per year
This is not the same study that I recall but it is a starting point.

https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2013/11/...-expenses.aspx

It is circa 2013 so I imagine expenses have increased.
comes out that fb ATh dept net expenses are about 900k more than non fb ath depts after subtracting revenue. Fb revenue only 310k more than non fb ath dept revenue.

Another link, ncaa pres baker in October says 95% of d2 and d3 schools lose $ on athletics. Says making athletes employees will cause d2 and d3 to drop sports entirely.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...iii-athletics/

Here is pdf with graphs. Nothing major new. Coaches are 20% of ath dept expenses at fb playing schools.
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/res...port_FINAL.pdf


Beginning in the 90s, western d2 schools started dropping football. Now just two left.
https://apnews.com/article/western-o...4bc6bcdf2f9ead

[boatcapt]

Google Ncaa study football costs d2 per year
This is not the same study that I recall but it is a starting point.

https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2013/11/...-expenses.aspx

It is circa 2013 so I imagine expenses have increased.
comes out that fb ATh dept net expenses are about 900k more than non fb ath depts after subtracting revenue. Fb revenue only 310k more than non fb ath dept revenue.

Another link, ncaa pres baker in October says 95% of d2 and d3 schools lose $ on athletics. Says making athletes employees will cause d2 and d3 to drop sports entirely.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...iii-athletics/

Here is pdf with graphs. Nothing major new. Coaches are 20% of ath dept expenses at fb playing schools.
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/res...port_FINAL.pdf


Beginning in the 90s, western d2 schools started dropping football. Now just two left.
https://apnews.com/article/western-o...4bc6bcdf2f9ead

I would point out that most schools lose money on all sorts of extracaricular activities and no one seems to care a whole lot. When was the last time a school made money on a marching band or when was the last time that a school gymnasium, as a whole, actually made money? Colleges are full of non-academic money losing things that are designed for nothing more than the pleasure of the students and faculty.

Heck, I'd like to see a REAL accounting fro basketball that includes the cost of funding, building and maintenance of the facilities they use, the real administrative and salary cost of the basketball department to include the game day costs of heating/cooling of the arena, the cost of maintenance, cleaning and service staff, etc, etc, etc. I think pretty quickly we would see that even supposed money makers like basketball are at best break even extracariculars that are truly little more than marketing tools intended to increase enrollment and/or drive alumni donations to the general fund.

[Columbuseer]

I would point out that most schools lose money on all sorts of extracaricular activities and no one seems to care a whole lot. When was the last time a school made money on a marching band or when was the last time that a school gymnasium, as a whole, actually made money? Colleges are full of non-academic money losing things that are designed for nothing more than the pleasure of the students and faculty.

Heck, I'd like to see a REAL accounting fro basketball that includes the cost of funding, building and maintenance of the facilities they use, the real administrative and salary cost of the basketball department to include the game day costs of heating/cooling of the arena, the cost of maintenance, cleaning and service staff, etc, etc, etc. I think pretty quickly we would see that even supposed money makers like basketball are at best break even extracariculars that are truly little more than marketing tools intended to increase enrollment and/or drive alumni donations to the general fund.

That reminds me of a joke about product managers when questioned about their bad business case.

"yes, we are losing money on every product we sell. But we will make it up on volume!"

Schools without fb lose money on athletics. But they lose about $1m a year or about 15% to 20% less than fb schools.
Pres. Baker said 95% of d2 and d3 school lose $.

The fact remains that schools are looking at eliminating football as low hanging fruit to reduce costs.
Asusa Pacific is one. Closer to home, an org. of professors at Akron in 2015 proposed dropping down to d2. They eliminated baseball instead. Conference exit fees make dropping to d2 from d1 expensive.
d1 requires an average 15k fb attendance. Some d1 schools are below that number.

If you read ncaa president Baker's testimony, the 800 lb gorilla is college athletes being considered employees.
Imho to save d2 and d3 sports, d1 must face reality and not require college admission and just lease the brand to their minor league team. Quit pretending that d1 athletes are students. When playing days are over, d1 players get a trust fund to go to trade school, college, etc. Like GI bill. It is crazy that to get to NBA or NFL, one must pass ACT or SAT.

[boatcapt]

That reminds me of a joke about product managers when questioned about their bad business case.

"yes, we are losing money on every product we sell. But we will make it up on volume!"

The fact remains that schools are looking at eliminating football as low hanging fruit to reduce costs.
Asusa Pacific is one. Closer to home, an org. of professors at Akron in 2015 proposed dropping down to d2. They eliminated baseball instead. Conference exit fees make dropping to d2 from d1 expensive.

If you read ncaa president Baker's testimony, the 800 lb gorilla is college athletes being considered employees.
Imho to save d2 and d3 sports, d1 must face reality and not require college admission and just lease the brand to their minor league team. Quit pretending that d1 athletes are students. When playing days are over, d1 players get a trust fund to go to trade school, college, etc. Like GI bill. It is crazy that to get to NBA or NFL, one must pass ACT or SAT.

Professors in favor dropping down to a lower sports level...I'M SHOCKED...SHOCKED I SAY!!! Me thinks this proposal was INSTEAD of eliminating a tenured faculty position or two??

I wonder how much money universities could save by eliminating professor tenure and go to 100% adjunct faculty?

[Columbuseer]

Professors in favor dropping down to a lower sports level...I'M SHOCKED...SHOCKED I SAY!!! Me thinks this proposal was INSTEAD of eliminating a tenured faculty position or two??

I wonder how much money universities could save by eliminating professor tenure and go to 100% adjunct faculty?

there are union agreements protecting tenure.

Just using akron as example. They are far from alone.

Akron laid off 178 staff in 2021, which included tenured professors, using a catastrophic disaster clause in union agreement to do it. Football costs akron $8m a year. Hired some back as adjuncts.

Imho alumni donors are going have to decide how important fb is to them versus the academic reputation of the school. If they realize cutting fb is tragic but increases a school's chances of survival, they may grudgingly accept it. In 20 years no one will care that there is no fb. But big donors have to concur in order for fb to be cut.

https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/...it/7785699002/