West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

My hunch: That 6-24 (or something like that) from last year turns in to 18-12 or 20-8 this season. There's some talent there and with Dennis he has (entering his junior year) perhaps the best point guard in the country.

Hoehn will be a key member of that team. Obviously not as a player but he'll be the grad assistant who is essentially dressing for practice every day. That should really help the system implementation.

You'll see that instant change from a year ago in that team's conditioning. My thought is people always talk about the Crutch 'system' ... I never agreed with that analysis. If that was the case, everybody would run that 'system'. What always jumped out to me as the key to WL's success was having top-conditioned and intelligent players -- along with, of course, high-percentage (unselfish) shooters. That's my 'non black and gold sunglasses' view.

Who knows ... maybe we'll get a home-and-home going here in the near future. Enough with Cheyney and Mansfield. And, yes, I'd agree ... one for one ... not the 2 or 3 for one stuff IUP wanted.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I agree with your assessment. I saw West Lib play them last year and Nova did OK against them. They definitely were not incompetent. They just did not value every offensive possession. That 6 ft 9 guy who was freshman on yr in his conference at Salem. Hits 40% of 3s. Got 19 against West Lib. Some of their international players are decent too.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I see Nova as a 10-15 win team this coming season. That would be a big improvement. Much of Nova's success, or failure, next year will be based on weather the 8 players that remained from the previous regime truly buy into Crutch-ball AND if they are physically capable of playing that system. The 8 holdovers were brought in to play a COMPLETELY different style of ball and they may not have the right skill set to be a success in Nova's new style.

[IUP Extra Mile]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I see Nova as a 10-15 win team this coming season. That would be a big improvement. Much of Nova's success, or failure, next year will be based on weather the 8 players that remained from the previous regime truly buy into Crutch-ball AND if they are physically capable of playing that system. The 8 holdovers were brought in to play a COMPLETELY different style of ball and they may not have the right skill set to be a success in Nova's new style.

I dont' know much about Nova's philosophy from past regime, I don't know much about their team...But let's be real....Conditioning is one aspect of basketball that can be taught....They will be well conditioned...they will play the WL style....do they have the players to be super successful? We'll see...He has a good start with Dennis and Nick Smith, FR....I'm predicting 18-19 wins...He's a good coach..they'll be conditioned...

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

And ... All good coaches have to play the hand dealt.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

My hunch: That 6-24 (or something like that) from last year turns in to 18-12 or 20-8 this season. There's some talent there and with Dennis he has (entering his junior year) perhaps the best point guard in the country.

Hoehn will be a key member of that team. Obviously not as a player but he'll be the grad assistant who is essentially dressing for practice every day. That should really help the system implementation.

You'll see that instant change from a year ago in that team's conditioning. My thought is people always talk about the Crutch 'system' ... I never agreed with that analysis. If that was the case, everybody would run that 'system'. What always jumped out to me as the key to WL's success was having top-conditioned and intelligent players -- along with, of course, high-percentage (unselfish) shooters. That's my 'non black and gold sunglasses' view.

Who knows ... maybe we'll get a home-and-home going here in the near future. Enough with Cheyney and Mansfield. And, yes, I'd agree ... one for one ... not the 2 or 3 for one stuff IUP wanted.

In addition, all the players are well balanced in fundamentals of passing, defense, dribbling, rebounding as well as shooting. Other coaches tend to recruit for a position and not emphasize balance. I have heard they also practice differently with more emphasis on team play. Rather than a system, it seems to be more of a philosophy. As crutch said there is no one magic system but how players execute and buy into whatever the system is. His stresses getting more possessions and good shots than the opponent by forcing turnovers, not taking off balance shots and tiring the opponent.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Given WLU's success over the Crutch era, if it was as easy as getting your players in great condition and then running the WLU "system," I would imagine there would be a bunch of successful imitators. Fact that WLU and Crutch were the only team able to do it says to me that it ain't that easy to do!!! Crutch has one player who has been successful in his system, a 4 or 5 other guys he recruited who he believes can play his system and 8 holdovers who MIGHT be able to do so. My opinion...to get to 20 wins, Crutch needs to have hit on all they guys he brought in and most of the holdovers as well. He has some of the cards he needs, but to win 20, he will need to draw to an inside straight....not impossible...but not as easy as just getting them in good shape.

I will say that if anyone can do it, Crutch is the guy!

[cavsfan94]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

So with all that is going on with the Hilltopper basketball team, how do you feel about how the MEC will turn out this upcoming season?

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Why there are not imitators:
You raise some very interesting points. I think his style is not imitated because it requires fundamental changes in attitudes and belief systems of both coaches and players. Humans have real problems with fundamental changes in these areas.

1. Many coaches and player's styles reflect the way they have been taught growing up and serving under other coaches. So solutions to every problem or challenge tend to be some modification to that base of knowledge. Elon Musk develops very innovative approaches to problem solving. He said that his approach is "Start with the physics"; which means start with fundamental truths, not what we think is the truth. Otherwise we tend to develop solutions that are just based on the past. Like Musk, Crutch has the ability to "start with the physics" and look at everything without any baggage from the past.
2. Many coaches make decisions by the "Book" and never question whether the "book" represents reality. Similar to Crutch, there is a high school football coach at Pulaski Academy in Arkansas who determined that the best chance of winning is to NEVER punt and to always onside kick after scoring. I first heard about them when I saw the headline: "Team losing 29-0 in first quarter and they have not yet run a single play". They have won several state championships and play teams all over the country. Statisticians have validated that his strategy is indeed the best one and coaches are far too conservative, based on data from thousands of games at different levels (college, pro, etc.). But it goes against the "BooK" so no one imitates them.
3. Since we fans believe in the "book", coaches believe it is high personal career risk to go against the book. It's like plausible deniability to avoid criticism, should a loss occur. Pressure to win "now"!
4. I don't think players and coaches really believe in synergy; i.e., the whole is greater than the sum of the individual parts.
5. Many very talented players find it very difficult to subvert self and focus on team for an entire game. Example is the Cavs. Cavs do not need better players IMHO. The Cavs lost because they could not focus on team instead of self for an entire game, despite the best efforts of LeBron and Kyrie to play unselfishly for the most part. Cavs played team ball for about 90% of the game which is great for the NBA, but that is not enough against the Warriors. Remember them not getting back on defense in transition, Player doing a "heat check" shot (translation: terrible shot), and sub fouling Curry near the half court line after Curry received the in-bounds pass?
6. One often has to be desperate to overcome resistance to change, especially when coaches are having mostly good seasons, with some great seasons every few years with their system

In summary, imitating Crutch is rare because it is considered risky, subject to criticism, and requires attitude and belief changes in players and coaches.



.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

All good points and very true. With regard to the 8 remaining players at Nova, number 1 and 5 are the salient points. They may mouth the words about being committed to the new system but it is not what they have grown up playing and not the style they were recruited to play. They MAY have the individual skills to play this new style, but do they truly believe in it? My guess is that it will be 50/50...4 will be able to make the switch and 4 won't. The question is will it be the 4 most skilled returnees or will it be the 4 returning bench warmers? If it's the former and Crutch hits on all of his recruits this year, Nova will have enough skilled players to be pretty good. Buuutttt...If one or two of the top 4 returnees don't truly buy in and one or two of Crutch's recruits are not ready to be front line starters their first season, it could be a rough first season.

But as I've said before, if anyone can do it, Crutch is that guy. While I don't think they will get to 20 W's, I'm not willing to bet against Crutch being able to do it!!!

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

All good points and very true. With regard to the 8 remaining players at Nova, number 1 and 5 are the salient points. They may mouth the words about being committed to the new system but it is not what they have grown up playing and not the style they were recruited to play. They MAY have the individual skills to play this new style, but do they truly believe in it? My guess is that it will be 50/50...4 will be able to make the switch and 4 won't. The question is will it be the 4 most skilled returnees or will it be the 4 returning bench warmers? If it's the former and Crutch hits on all of his recruits this year, Nova will have enough skilled players to be pretty good. Buuutttt...If one or two of the top 4 returnees don't truly buy in and one or two of Crutch's recruits are not ready to be front line starters their first season, it could be a rough first season.

But as I've said before, if anyone can do it, Crutch is that guy. While I don't think they will get to 20 W's, I'm not willing to bet against Crutch being able to do it!!!

Great analysis of challenges facing crutch. Anyone remember his first year at west lib? How did it compare with nova? Like you I would not bet against crutch. He may steal a couple of wins because the other team is not prepared for his unique style. I am surprised at the number of errant passes his style causes even though they are easy passes to open players.
One positive about situation. People are more open to radical change when situation is bleak. Novas season last year was bleak. On the other hand players could bail and go to another school rather than change. I think a couple of Russian / east europe players left in spring.

[Sportsnut]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Crutch's first year at WL I think he used mostly freshmen. It was amazing how fast he turned things around. From 3/4 wins a season to I think he won 20 his first year but don't quote me on this.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

So with all that is going on with the Hilltopper basketball team, how do you feel about how the MEC will turn out this upcoming season?

Wju would appear to be loaded much like fsu was this year
Glenville has some players a I thought their coach did a good job.
I like shepherds coach and players.
Mazzulla may make an impact on fsu.
West lib could finish from first to fourth. I could see a lot of teams splitting wins in the above group.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Crutch's first year at WL I think he used mostly freshmen. It was amazing how fast he turned things around. From 3/4 wins a season to I think he won 20 his first year but don't quote me on this.

I believe that 3 of the top 5 scorers on the 2004 Toppers were hold overs...McDuffie was the leading scorer at 19.5 per game and started all 31 games, Chris Blair was the third leading scorer and also started all 31 games and Southern was the 5th leading scorer and he started 12 (which was also the fifth most starts). That team did have Meynard and Bingelli who were freshmen and started all 31 games.

I note that Southern apparently transferred to Fairmont along with fellow holdover Loughry for the following year.

I also wouldn't compare the WLU program Crutch took over to the one he is taking over at Nova. Yes WLU was coming off a 3 win season but that was an anomaly. "West Liberty State" was a consistent .500 program for a while before only winning 3 the year before Crutch while Nova has been a consistently sub 500 team...only finished above 500 6 times in their 35 year history...Last time being five years ago when they went 15-12.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Wju would appear to be loaded much like fsu was this year
Glenville has some players a I thought their coach did a good job.
I like shepherds coach and players.
Mazzulla may make an impact on fsu.
West lib could finish from first to fourth. I could see a lot of teams splitting wins in the above group.

I feel pretty good about WLU through their starting 5. Much will depend on their depth. If French can perform the way we started seeing from him the season before last and Primmer is able to step up and score close to 10 per game, we should be OK. I'm a bit confused by Primmer...from a shooting and all around game stand point, he seems to be a prototypical WLU "guy"...Shoots .400+ from 3...good FT shooter...can handle the ball...etc. But for some reason, he's just never gotten consistent minutes.

Biggest question in most peoples mind is probably weather Howlett is up to replacing Crutch as the head man. I'm not terribly concerned about that. Unless you believe there is only one coach in the nation that can run the WLU style, Howlett is probably the person that is in the best position to continue WLU's successful run. Probably the biggest question I have about Howlett is how his stamp on the game will differ from Crutch's. Yea...he's going to run the WLU style that he learned from Crutch, but he is a different guy who is probably going to manage a game a little differently.