West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

It's actually a good point...they're gone...it's fortunate or unfortunate or maybe a little of both...but let's rev up the talk about your 17-18 running hilltoppers...

I think this version of the Hilltoppers will surprise in a lot of ways....new coach, lost dennis, lost clay, lost grossenbacher, lost hoehn, etc, etc...Most will think they will be down...but Arnold, Monty, Griff, is a solid start...And I predict Saban as my freshman to watch...and don't forget about the RS freshman...much has been said of Bolon...There are always gems on that roster...Hoehn was RS freshman, and pretty much played starter mins his Frosh year, and started afterwards...we'll see...

Can't find it now but over a year ago I saw a video of Bolon hitting 31 3's in a row. Looks like he has gotten stronger too. At an all star game in Columbus after high school, he guarded Clay Guillozet and I thought he had the upper hand, although it was close.
I think a key player will be Nate Allen. We don't have anyone besides Monte who can guard an athletic bigger guy like Moseh. We are vulnerable there without Grossenbacher.

Some specific personnel matchups worry me somewhat with this year's team. Teams that have 2 athletic 6-5 or 6-6 or two big men create match-up problems. We have to keep Monte on the court and out of foul trouble. Grossenbacher and Kirkbride will be missed on the defensive end. Glenville, Shepherd, WJU, WV Wesleyan, Concord and Fairmont could be troubling. We should have lost at Glenville last year.
WV Wesleyan has a couple of good young big men that impressed me last year.

We will have to generate some turnovers and improve our 3 pt shooting to overcome it. We will still have a good season, but some teams may defeat us that we don't usually lose to. I don't think losing Dennis and Clay will hurt us, even though I really liked their game. Although Dennis could create his own shot off the dribble, we have plenty of shooters and good passers. I think Bolon will replace Clay. Next man up.




Regarding the newcomers:

I watched Yoakum play about 4 times. He has very high basketball IQ and moves like a gazelle in the open court with the ball at 6-5. Very unselfish. Got MVP against best players in Columbus at some local AAU and summer leagues in Reynoldsburg. Got award for one of top 20 free throw shooters in Ohio. However, he might need to redshirt to get stronger, unless he competes very well against the veterans and they need him.

Marlon Moore is a very strong player inside who may play out of need after Monte and Allen in guarding athletic big men.

I have not seen keegan play much, but physically he looked much stronger than a HS senior when I saw him at Urbana last year.

Ochoa has great potential, but will need to adjust to the college game. He has great timing and elevation in blocking shots and keeping the ball in bounds ala Bill Russell.


My guesses on redshirts:
Ochoa
Yoakum
Moore

[Sportsnut]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Seems like one of the two big guys (Moore & Ochoa) services will be needed due to lack of size. Probably Moore is physically ready. Sounds like Yoakum has the skill set but needs a year to add weight and get stronger.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

There are lots of little things that make WLU's system tough, but two of the fundamental pieces is their ability to hit 3's at a high rate and to force turnovers. WLU runs best when it is swapping 3's for 2's and hits 3's off of TO's. This is part of the reason WLU can get away without a typical big man...they are willing to "give up" inside scoring by an opponents big to get the ball back and nock down a quick 3. Do that three times in a row and then get a steal with a 3 off of that and they've pushed a tie game to a 6 point lead in pretty shot order...add in a defensive stop and WLU is off on one of their runs were they push out to a double digit lead with blinding speed.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

There are lots of little things that make WLU's system tough, but two of the fundamental pieces is their ability to hit 3's at a high rate and to force turnovers...
.

Great characterization of their style. Sometimes big men generate foul trouble by smaller defenders and over the back fouls on rebounding especially if refs are calling it tight. Wlu has improved their sagging help defense to make big pick up the dribble early. Wlu is also denying the easy entry pass by the guard into the post which helps. Some teams have more discipline and try harder to go inside to exploit wlu on every possession. Others like Fairmont and glenville like to jack up a few wild shots every game outside the game plan. A little thing that wlu does is rapidly transition offense <-> defense. Total focus. No moping or pouting on a score by opponent. Results in some easy baskets each game. At glenville no. 15 drained a 3 and thrust both fists in the air, which allowed grossenbacher to get behind him for a long pass from hoehn taking it out for an easy 2.
Glenville lost in ot.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

It sometimes doesn't look like it when they are running the floor, pressuring the ball and jacking up 3's, but WLU is actually very disciplined in their approach to basketball. They do fundamental things to a fault and most of those things don't directly show up in a stat sheet. Ball movement, spacing, harassing pressure (even when not pressing), pushing the ball quickly into the offensive end and all expected to take the shot if open. 48 minutes of harassment, ball movement and shots coming from all angles.

Much was said during and after the season about Fairmont's "length" and how they played with such athleticism. Perhaps true but Fairmont played WLU three times and lost two of those times. As Crutch used to say, we've never won warmups. You do a player-to-player comparison between WLU's players and any number of other DII teams and you swear there is absolutely no way WLU can possibly win. Then the game starts and WLU is in your face ALL the time, taking advantage of every mistake you make and everyone on the court is taking, and making 3's. Your 10 minutes into the game, completely gassed and wondering what the frack is happening!!

Here's an over simplified fact from last season. WLU shot .050 worse form 3 than a typical WLU team. Had they shot like a normal WLU team, that would have been about 4.5 extra points per game. Three of WLU's four losses were within that four point swing. Maybe those games play out differently, but an argument can be made that WLU would have rolled into the NCAA with the #1 seed riding a 23 game winning streak having just won the MEC regular and tourney crown. THAT's how important WLU's 3 point shooting is!!! But they didn't which opened them up to the NCAA scheduling them for an unpresidented FOURTH match-up against their arch rival in the first round of the NCAA. EVEN THEN it took a very questionable call by the refs on the bade last shot to nock WLU out!!

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

It sometimes doesn't look like it when they are running the floor, pressuring the ball and jacking up 3's, but WLU is actually very disciplined in their approach to basketball. They do fundamental things to a fault and most of those things don't directly show up in a stat sheet. Ball movement, spacing, harassing pressure (even when not pressing), pushing the ball quickly into the offensive end and all expected to take the shot if open. 48 minutes of harassment, ball movement and shots coming from all angles.

Much was said during and after the season about Fairmont's "length" and how they played with such athleticism. Perhaps true but Fairmont played WLU three times and lost two of those times. As Crutch used to say, we've never won warmups. You do a player-to-player comparison between WLU's players and any number of other DII teams and you swear there is absolutely no way WLU can possibly win. Then the game starts and WLU is in your face ALL the time, taking advantage of every mistake you make and everyone on the court is taking, and making 3's. Your 10 minutes into the game, completely gassed and wondering what the frack is happening!!

Here's an over simplified fact from last season. WLU shot .050 worse form 3 than a typical WLU team. Had they shot like a normal WLU team, that would have been about 4.5 extra points per game. Three of WLU's four losses were within that four point swing. Maybe those games play out differently, but an argument can be made that WLU would have rolled into the NCAA with the #1 seed riding a 23 game winning streak having just won the MEC regular and tourney crown. THAT's how important WLU's 3 point shooting is!!!

Good points. West lib values every possession. When they shoot a 3 they are on balance. Not falling away, kicking legs out and jacking up a playground 3. On the other hand mec coaching is improving. When they break the press they are attacking the rim.
I think a grossenbacher type player is important from elite 8 onward. Coaches are good, teams are good and fatigue of 2 games in 2 days can affect long range shooting. Not impossible to win title with small team but it raises the odds.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Re wlu beating Fairmont.
I was at two of those games. Wlu should have won all 3. Fairmont can be counted on for 5-10 bad possessions a game, which are outside the coaches game plan. Those shots may fall early but not in the last 10 minutes when cumulative effect of wlu pressure takes it toll. Their lack of discipline and focus offset their length.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Re other teams collapsing against wlu.
If u are really bored, YouTube Clarion west lib game when Clarion had Anthony. They played west lib tough. Down between 5- 8 pts. With 7 minutes left in game, the roof fell in. They lost by about 30.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Re other teams collapsing against wlu.
If u are really bored, YouTube Clarion west lib game when Clarion had Anthony. They played west lib tough. Down between 5- 8 pts. With 7 minutes left in game, the roof fell in. They lost by about 30.

That's WLU's MO. Teams can and do play them tough for a lot of the game but comes a point, usually late in the first half and then again down the streatch in the second, were the cumulative effect of WLU's constant defensive harassment and forcing their opponents to play every one of their players in the WLU offensive end just wears the other team out and WLU goes on one of its runs.

That Clairion game is a perfect xample. At 12:40 of the first half, Clarion had a 6 point lead...less than two minutes later they were behind by 6. What Clairon did that most can't is they were capable of mounting a comeback and ultimately claimed a 3 point halftime lead. But really, that was Clarion's last gasp...WLU was cold to start the half so Clarion maintained a lead for a while but ultimately, WLU walked away. Anthony got his points and WLU claimed a 20 point W.

As for a Grossenbacher type player, I to would prefer we had one too. But just MAYBE Ochoa can be a different kind of Grossenbacher. He's thin but seems very active inside on the offensive and defensive end. Here's hoping he's in the weight room packing on the pounds! Lot of pressure on a freshman but we do have a pretty experienced top 6 so that should relieve some of the weight he might think he has to be the man. Love to see him focus on inside defense and rebounds his first year.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I remember that game. To your point, yes, Clarion played well for probably 90% of that game ... way better than normal. They just didn't have the bench and tapped out those last 5-6 minutes.

I'm actually surprised their coach hasn't been canned yet. They've really regressed lately.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I'm most interested to see the dynamic of the new coach going from buddy-buddy cheerleader assistant to the head coach. Always an interesting transition.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I'm most interested to see the dynamic of the new coach going from buddy-buddy cheerleader assistant to the head coach. Always an interesting transition.

I think we will have to be patient. Very big shoes to fill. On the other hand i understand he did much of recruiting so he has an eye for a player that fits the style. The in game adjustments are the biggest unknown when compared to crutch who had so many more years of experience.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Tough situation for Howlett. He can be a great coach and lead the Toppers consistently to four loss regular seasons and several NCAA playoff W's each season and still be seen as a "failure." The bar is just so very, very high for him. He will have to be dam close to perfect and have WLU in the hunt for a NC most years to even have a chance to be seen as "adequate." I understand why he took the job and I think he's up to the task but DAM...talk about zero chance to grow into the job!!!!

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Off topic fyi:
Crutch got a 12 ft by 32 ft nevco jumbotron at Rick case arena at nova se. Looks like they are giving him every tool to attract recruits and fans.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

South FL is a TOUGH market for sports teams. For a team to "draw" they need to be a winner and even then it is a "what have you done for me lately" thing. A proven winner will see their game attendance drop considerably even within a season if the team hits a rough stretch! There are just soooo very many other things a person can do in South FL rather than go watch a team they think might lose!!!

But the good news is Nova is coming from as close to zero as a program can get...and Crutch's style is pretty fan friendly. Even if they don't put up a whole lot of W's if they can score 100+ every game and lose "shootouts," they might be able to draw some interest.