Iup basketball

[IUP Extra Mile]

Re: Iup basketball

INteresting take on IUP's softness...I'd say there's some validity to that, if you compare the more successful teams of past 5-6 years...

I do think depth is an issue as well...

Will be interesting if JOe does leave after next year....but he better do a good job, otherwise no one will hire him if he wants to move on to D1

[IUP24]

Re: Iup basketball

Nobody responded to what I posted last night... And I'm honestly not surprised. A lot of the stuff that I mentioned has been brewing with that team over the last 2-3 years. That post summed it up. Everybody is just glossing over it though, pretending it's not true. Yeah, the depth is an issue. But the depth has always been an issue. Every year. Even in 2015. They played 7 guys that year. The depth is only "the problem" when the planets all align like they did this season. The depth isn't the real "problem." Their identity is.

When the topic of IUP disappearing in big games was brought up after losing to Findlay, Ferris State, and Virginia State, people attributed it to injuries to start the year. When IUP blew a huge lead to West Chester during the PSAC tournament 2 years ago, it was just "bad luck." When it was mentioned after the West Chester loss this year that IUP had become soft, people said it was "just a bad day." Take a hard look at this program. Take a hard look at this team. Remove the blinders. They've lost their identity. It's non-existent. They have had two of the best players in the league for the last 3 years, missed the tournament twice, and won just one game when it really mattered. In the very recent past, that program won a lot of games simply getting off the bus. As a team, they were "hard." Nobody fears them anymore. That's not a talent issue. That's an identity issue.

I may be young. I wasn't around for Gary Edwards or the "hey day" of the Memorial Field House. You could say I'm spoiled - my freshman year the KCAC opened up. But I see where this is all headed. Everybody here is focused on recruiting and this offseason. My focus is on the identity of this program moving forward; because right now, it doesn't have much of one. Has anybody thought about what the off-season will be like after next season when Joe Lombardi announces his retirement or takes a Division 1 job elsewhere? Because that's where this is all headed. I see the writing on the wall... Dante, Cobo, and Willem will be seniors. He'll go for it next year because it's his son's senior year. Sure, he's a basketball coach, but he's a father too. He'll bring in the mercenaries and the one year guys to give it one last shot. When he graduates 3-6 guys (assuming he brings in one year players) and has only 2 experienced guys returning for the following year, he'll know that he doesn't have a contending team. He would have a son moving on with his life's work as well. Nothing will be keeping Bravado Joe in Indiana anymore. The reality is that we likely have one more year with him at the helm. This program could go south very, very quickly.

At that point you have limited guys returning; you have an identity issue; and you don't have a coach. That's not a good situation moving forward. Unlike many, I don't think it's a forgone conclusion that Chris Fite simply drops everything and takes an open IUP job. Am I looking at this with a broad lens? Sure, but I believe this where the next couple years are heading if the program doesn't get injected with some attitude very quickly.

Some of the PSAC teams with their dancing shoes on this weekend really aren't that much better than IUP, if at all. Again, there's legitimate talent on that team. So why are they what they are? You can blame the grease fire or the lack of depth all you want. I look at their schedule and the results. That team easily could have only won 16-17 games this season. Why? It's not the talent. I'll keep saying it.. It's the attitude.

They need alphas. They need a Devante, an Anthony Wells, a Mathis, a Marcel, a Shawn Dyer. They need a guy to stand up and command that room. They don't have one of those right now. Those previous IUP teams had clusters of those guys. Those guys didn't start slow. Those guys didn't play down to their competition. Those guys didn't blow huge leads. The thing that's crazy... I don't think any of those teams were that much better as far as pure talent than this team, or last year, or the one Norfleet's senior year. So keep talking about recruiting. Keep mentioning the depth. Keep bringing up Jalen Vaughns, Armoni Foster, and Dom Keyes. I'll bring up the real issues.

Joe isn't long for this program. They need a culture change. Fast.

[IUPalum]

Re: Iup basketball

SoI guess the biggest question is what is the deal with Jalen Vaughns? Status? Why did he get no PT towards the end of the season? Is he in the doghouse? Is he going to stay? Can he even help? This topic has frustrated me all year.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: Iup basketball

I think you're forgetting one thing... Doesn't Dante get a free ride because Joe works for the university? So that technically opens another scholarship if that is the case. Now let's discuss the recruiting...

He gets free tuition. He's still on the hook for all the fees, books, and housing and meal plan if he lives on campus...but basketball money could pay for all that.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Iup basketball

If Dante is there for free that would put them to 9 scholarships instead of the 10 I listed.

That's probably accurate. They've fluctuated between 8 to 10 depending on the year.

Certainly none of the deep bench was getting money.

[IUPalum]

Re: Iup basketball

I think you're forgetting one thing... Doesn't Dante get a free ride because Joe works for the university? So that technically opens another scholarship if that is the case. Now let's discuss the recruiting...

[ironmaniup]

Re: Iup basketball

Every program has a different recruiting philosophy.

. . .

This was an extreme example of unbelievable events that all happened in one season but that's how they got to the point of playing their final game with 5 players.


This isn't a one-year thing, though. It's becoming the norm. They are always one fluke injury or something away from catastrophe. That's the problem with putting all your eggs in one basket. Some of them break.

There should be another Scholarship, since Dante goes to IUP for free I think - though I haven't looked at the coaches contract in a while.

Vaughns has to be the biggest question, why he didn't play in the Edinboro game is a mystery.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Iup basketball

Every program has a different recruiting philosophy.

Whatever the amount of money is the program has ... they can spend it in different ways. For example, IUP likes to give full rides. They have enough money to probably cover 8-10 on a given year. If they keep missing NCAAs ... the donor money is going to start to shrink. The IUP bench, beyond the players they invest in, is just, in many cases, guys they take off the intramural courts -- walk-ons. Not joking.


Some schools in the PSAC don't give full rides. They'll give two guys half rides instead of one guy a full ride. Others can't even do that ... they can maybe divide one ride three ways. Some like building that deep bench by recruiting well and spreading the money. IUP essentially has an unwritten law they aren't allowed to ever have more than an 8-man rotation. Great in theory ... have 8 full-ride players play. But, it really stinks when stuff goes wrong. And, boy oh boy, did stuff go wrong.


To answer your question: Take this season as an example:

I'll call them the 'believed to be' (10) full ride scholarship players on this year's roster:

Anthony Glover
Cobo Diaz
Willem Brandwijk
Dante Lombardi
Blake Danielak
Ayron Hutton
Jalen Vaughns
Dom Keyes
Armoni Foster
Malik Miller


Right away, Armoni Foster is gone for the season with a should injury in the last week of camp. At that point, they are down to four guards. He later becomes a scapegoat of sorts although many question if he'd have redshirted anyway. A week before the season it gets announced Dom Keyes will redshirt (to the surprise of everybody). Now you're down to 8 scholarship players and the intramural gang. By mid-November, Vaughns is in the doghouse. By mid-January, he's in Siberia. You're down to 7 scholarship players and the intramural gang.

Hang in there. The story gets worse.

Then, Malik Miller has the unfortunate grease fire accident. Fluke but it still happened. He misses 3-4 weeks. Now, you're down to 6 scholarship players and the walk-ons. They played 5-6 games with this lineup. Amazingly, this could have been the time Vaughns could have re-emerged from the doghouse ... but he hurt his ankle in practice.

Several weeks go by. Malik returns. Things look bright again. They did OK in his time out but accumulated two devastating losses.

Last game of the regular season. They are back up to 7 scholarship players (technically 8 but Vaughns is long out of the picture). Glover gets the infamous two technicals (suspended first game of PSAC Tournament). Lombardi breaks his wrist (done for season). Back down to five players and the walk-ons.

This was an extreme example of unbelievable events that all happened in one season but that's how they got to the point of playing their final game with 5 players.


This isn't a one-year thing, though. It's becoming the norm. They are always one fluke injury or something away from catastrophe. That's the problem with putting all your eggs in one basket. Some of them break.

[IUP24]

Re: Iup basketball

Honest question on the depth. I can't believe the lack of a bench. You'd think during the season, a couple players would be able to progress into a 10 minute contribution.

As someone who watches WCU, Coach Blair goes to his bench, especially in the first half(probably more than he should).

Or is Joe not hitting on the recruits out there.

Speaking from watching them regularly, using a lot of guys isn't his style. He likes to start the year playing 8-9 guys, but after about 10-11 games, he plays 7. Since I've watched IUP, that's what he's done. You can't argue with the success Joe has had, but the last 2-3 years has been atrocious from a depth perspective. This year it finally got him. He had injuries, guys in his doghouse, a grease fire to deal with, and guys he wanted to redshirt. You could argue he really only enter the year with 8 guys. And that in and of itself is a different discussion.

[WCU007]

Re: Iup basketball

Not going to comment on the lack of an invitation. When you put yourself in that position ... you deal with the consequences.


There are some problems in the program. It's hard to use the word 'regression' when talking about the past three years if you solely look at records. During this three-season window, IUP went 21-8, 28-4 and 22-8. While the 28-4 record of a year ago looks great on paper, there are some factors. The West was historically awful last season. IUP also went 0-4 against Shippensburg and Fairmont State (3 of the losses at home).

So, they have a three-year record of 71-20 with one NCAA appearance and one NCAA win. The latter part is the problem. They have some West titles, sure. Hate to say winning the West is the expectation but that's the expectation.

Issues:

* You could list a whole litany of items from this past year but they all keep coming back to one thing: Depth. The lack of depth has crushed this program now for three straight seasons. It happened in Brandon Norfleet's senior season when they had to play (and sometimes start) a walk-on in the post. Depth devastated the entire season this year.

* Cobo Diaz and Anthony Glover together for three seasons ... only one NCAA. Hard to believe.

* Blake Danielak and Dom Keyes were both brought in as juniors. Both redshirted. The question becomes if they weren't ready to play or there weren't enough minutes for them ... why bring them in at all rather than solidify other weaknesses? Danielak sat and watched a walk-on play his first year. Keyes was signed to be a defensive specialist in the low post. He sat and watched one injury after another all year on a team that was, frankly, not very defensive in the low post. IUP was routinely out-rebounded by smaller teams this year while having a 6'8" rebounding specialist watching in a warm-up suit.

* East Stroudsburg played more players last night than IUP usually even dresses. Why does a fully-funded program routinely have nobody on the bench?

* Yes, the Anthony Glover suspension was unfortunate. Did it change the season? It sure didn't help. In reality, it's almost miraculous IUP made it that long without a major discipline issue/suspension. This team was involved in at least 4-5 other altercations this season. Every team will have one during the season. The amount IUP had wasn't a coincidence. Is it time to stop slapping floors, all the taunting hand claps and scale back the talking? Probably. If you don't ... this stuff isn't going away.

* The 'hero' schedule has to go. It's not working. SOS is overrated. IUP loves to schedule signature games. Going 1-3 in those games isn't worth it. Play one big one. No reason to play four of them. Get a home-and-home with a Wheeling Jesuit or keep the Fairmont State series going. Play three average teams this year instead of Findlay, Ferris and Virginia State ... and we're having a much different conversation this morning.

On the positive, they return a very strong core. Dante, Cobo and Willem will be seniors and Malik will be a junior. Keyes and Armoni Foster come off redshirt. Many in the West are going to be gutted this off-season and will be rebuilding. Gannon, UPJ, SRU and Edinboro are taking some heavy losses. IUP should be a big favorite to win the West come next October.

Three full rides open up (Glover, Hutton, Danielak). Most assume Vaughns won't return so that's a fourth full scholarship. With that premise, they have 3 guards and 3 post players returning. They will have incredible size with Keyes, Cobo and Willem. I'd like to see them add 3 guards and 1 'bruiser' of a post player. With the group coming back this is a 'go for it' recruiting class. They need ready-to-play imports -- preferably with 2 years' eligibility. If the right one-year-wonder is available ... take him. Next year is the year they've been building for ... and there could be a dip after it. Joe needs a home run this off-season.

This was a fun year as a fan at times. Awful at others. There were some really good moments. IUP/Boro Round 2 at the KCAC was one of the better atmospheres I've ever seen in there. The win at SRU was a great memory. Unfortunately, history will likely not remember this team well. This was an ultimate 'what if' team. When Malik's fluke accident happened the whole season changed. With Malik, I don't think they lose to Gannon and certainly not UPJ. But, it's in the books now. As I always say ... when one season ends ... a new one begins. They aren't going away. But, man, this was tough to swallow.

Honest question on the depth. I can't believe the lack of a bench. You'd think during the season, a couple players would be able to progress into a 10 minute contribution.

As someone who watches WCU, Coach Blair goes to his bench, especially in the first half(probably more than he should).

Or is Joe not hitting on the recruits out there.

[IUP Extra Mile]

Re: Iup basketball

Not going to comment on the lack of an invitation. When you put yourself in that position ... you deal with the consequences.


There are some problems in the program. It's hard to use the word 'regression' when talking about the past three years if you solely look at records. During this three-season window, IUP went 21-8, 28-4 and 22-8. While the 28-4 record of a year ago looks great on paper, there are some factors. The West was historically awful last season. IUP also went 0-4 against Shippensburg and Fairmont State (3 of the losses at home).

So, they have a three-year record of 71-20 with one NCAA appearance and one NCAA win. The latter part is the problem. They have some West titles, sure. Hate to say winning the West is the expectation but that's the expectation.

Issues:

* You could list a whole litany of items from this past year but they all keep coming back to one thing: Depth. The lack of depth has crushed this program now for three straight seasons. It happened in Brandon Norfleet's senior season when they had to play (and sometimes start) a walk-on in the post. Depth devastated the entire season this year.

* Cobo Diaz and Anthony Glover together for three seasons ... only one NCAA. Hard to believe.

* Blake Danielak and Dom Keyes were both brought in as juniors. Both redshirted. The question becomes if they weren't ready to play or there weren't enough minutes for them ... why bring them in at all rather than solidify other weaknesses? Danielak sat and watched a walk-on play his first year. Keyes was signed to be a defensive specialist in the low post. He sat and watched one injury after another all year on a team that was, frankly, not very defensive in the low post. IUP was routinely out-rebounded by smaller teams this year while having a 6'8" rebounding specialist watching in a warm-up suit.

* East Stroudsburg played more players last night than IUP usually even dresses. Why does a fully-funded program routinely have nobody on the bench?

* Yes, the Anthony Glover suspension was unfortunate. Did it change the season? It sure didn't help. In reality, it's almost miraculous IUP made it that long without a major discipline issue/suspension. This team was involved in at least 4-5 other altercations this season. Every team will have one during the season. The amount IUP had wasn't a coincidence. Is it time to stop slapping floors, all the taunting hand claps and scale back the talking? Probably. If you don't ... this stuff isn't going away.

* The 'hero' schedule has to go. It's not working. SOS is overrated. IUP loves to schedule signature games. Going 1-3 in those games isn't worth it. Play one big one. No reason to play four of them. Get a home-and-home with a Wheeling Jesuit or keep the Fairmont State series going. Play three average teams this year instead of Findlay, Ferris and Virginia State ... and we're having a much different conversation this morning.

On the positive, they return a very strong core. Dante, Cobo and Willem will be seniors and Malik will be a junior. Keyes and Armoni Foster come off redshirt. Many in the West are going to be gutted this off-season and will be rebuilding. Gannon, UPJ, SRU and Edinboro are taking some heavy losses. IUP should be a big favorite to win the West come next October.

Three full rides open up (Glover, Hutton, Danielak). Most assume Vaughns won't return so that's a fourth full scholarship. With that premise, they have 3 guards and 3 post players returning. They will have incredible size with Keyes, Cobo and Willem. I'd like to see them add 3 guards and 1 'bruiser' of a post player. With the group coming back this is a 'go for it' recruiting class. They need ready-to-play imports -- preferably with 2 years' eligibility. If the right one-year-wonder is available ... take him. Next year is the year they've been building for ... and there could be a dip after it. Joe needs a home run this off-season.

This was a fun year as a fan at times. Awful at others. There were some really good moments. IUP/Boro Round 2 at the KCAC was one of the better atmospheres I've ever seen in there. The win at SRU was a great memory. Unfortunately, history will likely not remember this team well. This was an ultimate 'what if' team. When Malik's fluke accident happened the whole season changed. With Malik, I don't think they lose to Gannon and certainly not UPJ. But, it's in the books now. As I always say ... when one season ends ... a new one begins. They aren't going away. But, man, this was tough to swallow.

Great piece of writing...insightful, objective, fair, sprinkled with opinions and I enjoyed that.... Not a fluff / cheerleader piece..

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Iup basketball

LOL .. for trying to 'avoid rematches' ... there's more this year than ever.

[IUPalum]

Re: Iup basketball

The IUP vs. Cal ladies game has been set for 12 p.m. Friday.

That's another game that shouldn't be happening!!! No reason for that rematch!

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Iup basketball

The IUP vs. Cal ladies game has been set for 12 p.m. Friday.

[IUPTrackMan]

Re: Iup basketball

If Dustin Sleva played at IUP he'd have been the D2 version of Christian Laetner.

It would have been incredibly entertaining to watch ... Certainly the one who got away.