Iup basketball

[IUP CRIMSON HAWKS]

Re: Iup basketball

Exactly! That was precisely my argument in a nutshell.

We are mentioning all of these past great IUP guards. Dante is not at present in the same stratosphere as many of those top names being floated such as Chance, Dwyer, Norfleet, Stewart, Ashton Smith, Julian Sanders, Wes Layton, et al.

He still has one more year to change that. But this is something that could really come back to bite the legacy of Bravado. People will say why did you not bring in better guards than your son during those four years? Heck, I think a lot of IUP fans much preferred Spain to Dante at the PG position.

Bravado has been one hell of a ball coach here and a good dude. I hope it all works out.

But yeah, the schedule, the rotation, the seeming unwillingness to look beyond your son at PG have not helped things in the past three seasons. You don't want the IUP Angry Mob coming down on you the way it did on Curt Cignetti over certain issues. LOL.

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[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Iup basketball

I don't think Dante or any one player is the sole blame for missing two out of the last three NCAAs. Maybe Joe just likes his primary ball-handlers (Devante, Dyer, Norfleet, Dante) to play heavy minutes -- which then gets us back into the depth issue.

You're right. No single player. Heck, you could blame Bravado Joe. Play cupcakes instead of Findlay types and he's dancing yearly.

But ... And, this is a big 'but' ...

This is a program with a ton of coin being dumped in to it. From, of course, a lot of people. That comes with expectations. You want money ... And lots of it ... you best win.

I think Joe has swung and missed on some recruits. Did the team get soft? Yes. Have they underachieved? Yes. Bad luck? Yes, that, too.

End of day this is a results business. Save the feel good stories for the girl scouts. From someone who writes checks ... I don't want to see walk-ons playing in vital moments. The 'why' to me is irrelevent.

I don't want to see East Stroudsburg roll in here 13 deep and our 'fully funded' team is rolling out intramural players. That's purely on Bravado.

This program has lost a lot of support the past three years. That's a fact. Reasons ... opinions vary.

Some of you watch things from afar. They were maybe getting 800 a game last year for much of the season. They can report whatever they want. A few big gates at the end really spiked the average attendance.

[PSACwatcher]

Re: Iup basketball

[IUP CRIMSON HAWKS]

Re: Iup basketball

Most unheralded PG ever at IUP ... name somehow forgotten ... DeWayne Anthony.

Don't forget White Lightning ... Wes Layton. His performance in the regional title run in 2002 ... one for the books. Best team in school history ... my opinion. Final Four but I put No. 1. That was the era when IUP and Cal played .... biggest show in town all year.

No question about it. Wes Layton was a terrific PG. That was the Mims team. No one will ever forget them.

Who was Dewayne Anthony? I don't recall him to be honest. What years did he play?

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[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Iup basketball

Most unheralded PG ever at IUP ... name somehow forgotten ... DeWayne Anthony.

Don't forget White Lightning ... Wes Layton. His performance in the regional title run in 2002 ... one for the books. Best team in school history ... my opinion. Final Four but I put No. 1. That was the era when IUP and Cal played .... biggest show in town all year.

[IUP24]

[IUP24]

One way to evaluate whether a player is a D2 talent capable of winning a PSAC championship - if given a substantial role - is to ask and answer this question: If that player were competing at the D3 level, would he dominate or just blend in? If he would not dominate at the D3 level, then he is likely a role player at the D2 level in the PSAC and probably not worthy of 30+ minutes per game. We have seen that with other players who transferred out of the PSAC to D3 programs. They blend into D3 programs and do well, but they don't dominate.

The issue is not whether DL is a player capable of fulfilling a role on IUP's team - he certainly is. The issue is: what should that role be? If a more talented, explosive player were afforded that role and given those minutes, would that increase IUP's chances of winning a PSAC championship? It would be interesting to confidentially ask the IUP assistant coaches their opinions on the subject.

[hawks16]

Re: Iup basketball

I don't think Dante or any one player is the sole blame for missing two out of the last three NCAAs. Maybe Joe just likes his primary ball-handlers (Devante, Dyer, Norfleet, Dante) to play heavy minutes -- which then gets us back into the depth issue.

[IUP CRIMSON HAWKS]

Re: Iup basketball

Regarding Dante----my main point was that he was taking the spot of a player who could possibly really make a difference for IUP (e.g. like a Chance or an Ashton).

In a sense Bravado has put the brakes on the rocket sled IUP hoops that he so masterfully crafted to stick with Dante for four years. I just don't feel that he is the best possible player that IUP could have at that position.

He's a decent player. Not bad. But also not the very best that they could have either IMHO. He has produced some good moments and some not so good ones in the opportunity that he has had to play. Wasn't there a 1-17 postseason shooting night? Do most players survive something like that and still retain the confidence of the coach?

I'm sure he is a great kid and I did not mean anything personal against him.

The rather thin rotation that Bravado has incorporated the past few years has to also be looked at with much scrutiny.

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[Chuck Norris]

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Iup basketball

Opinions seem to vary.

Unfortunately, he'll never escape that 'coaches son' item and he just has to play with it.

Give him one thing ... he's been the target of some of the scariest dudes in the league ... Micah Till, Trey Staunch, Dustin Sleva. Some of that comes with the last name. He's brought some of it on himself. Some of it came from some bonehead teammates a year ago and he took the retaliation.

I do think if he played at, say, Clarion, he'd be considered a very good player on a very bad team (in that instance).

But, the fact is he's here ... at the 'rich' program and has the big last name. That all comes with a level of scrutiny that other players don't have to endure.

Trust me, in three years there have been nights he can drive you completely bonkers with errant passes, stepping out of bounds under the basket (routinely), etc. Then the next trip down he crushes souls with a trey from 8' behind the line.

No more 'what if' games now. There's no Brandon Spain controversy. It's his show this year. That team is going to go as far as he can drive them.

I will say if Armoni Foster comes in and lights stuff up (as expected) ... this board will get awfully interesting come January.

[IUPBBall]

Re: Iup basketball

There are times when he's been a shoot-first PG when passing the ball would've been a better move, and he has cost IUP some big points when the shots didn't fall. That being said, there are games where he has gone off and made that difference that the team needed. As already mentioned, he might not be the best PG ever to step foot at IUP, but he is certainly a very talented player. Has he had more favorable treatment because he's the coach's son? Maybe. Whether that is the case or not, Dante has more than proven himself a valuable player to the team, and I believe he's earned the starting spot he has.

I think the bigger issue in the past few years has been the forwards. Joe clearly has tried to make sure that will not be the case this year.

[PSACwatcher]

Re: Iup basketball

One way to evaluate whether a player is a D2 talent capable of winning a PSAC championship - if given a substantial role - is to ask and answer this question: If that player were competing at the D3 level, would he dominate or just blend in? If he would not dominate at the D3 level, then he is likely a role player at the D2 level in the PSAC and probably not worthy of 30+ minutes per game. We have seen that with other players who transferred out of the PSAC to D3 programs. They blend into D3 programs and do well, but they don't dominate.

The issue is not whether DL is a player capable of fulfilling a role on IUP's team - he certainly is. The issue is: what should that role be? If a more talented, explosive player were afforded that role and given those minutes, would that increase IUP's chances of winning a PSAC championship? It would be interesting to confidentially ask the IUP assistant coaches their opinions on the subject.

[IUPalum]

Re: Iup basketball

AGREED!!!

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Iup basketball

Soft is Cobo and Willem! I've heard it from PSAC players that played against them.

Cobo isn't a 'U.S.A.' style power forward. He won't have to play that role this year. His skill set isn't to be banging with Micah Till. I put that on the big guy for not having a legit bruiser down low. That will be fixed this season and Cobo can play more his style (finesse) and further away from the basket. No offense to Blake but I don't think teams feared him too much and as a result they could hammer on Cobo. When he's out of the game they'll have Chuckie Humphries and Keyes enter which is a substantial upgrade over the past two years.

Personally, I think Willem is going to explode this year. I watched every game last year. The last 7-8 games Willem was a different player. Not sure where he was the first 20-some games. Not sure if Joe just cut him loose or he just came out of his shell ... something changed. Once he started playing with a little mean streak he was a monster down the stretch. Remember, despite his size, that was his first year EVER playing hybrid center. I really believe he can be dominant this season.

Remember they are adding a 5-tool, 6'9" beast to start along side them in Krivacevic. Most other teams can't handle three legit, athletic bigs on the floor at the same time -- especially when they can all shoot deep and are ultra-athletic.