Iup basketball

[ironmaniup]

Re: Iup basketball

Rollin, rollin, rollin! IUP lasses up 68-38 early fourth quarter.

What the heck happened to the Lady Vulcanheads? This isn't Cal WBB!

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Thought I heard Jack say they have two injuries that made a big difference.

[IUP CRIMSON HAWKS]

Re: Iup basketball

Rollin, rollin, rollin! IUP lasses up 68-38 early fourth quarter.

What the heck happened to the Lady Vulcanheads? This isn't Cal WBB!

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[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Iup basketball

IUP ladies up 23 (49-26) ... early 3rd.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Iup basketball

You have a lot of faith in Irish Tom today, ... lol.

[IUP CRIMSON HAWKS]

Re: Iup basketball

IUP spring football begins in two weeks.

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[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Iup basketball

Not sure what to expect out of IUP today ... not sure what to expect out of Cal today, either.

Millersville was a nice story last week but there's no way to defend IUP losing that game inside the KCAC. Despite the fancy 26-3 record, if this team goes out in Round 1 after the (home) PSAC Tournament debacle ... not sure you can call it a great season or team.

Cal went 3-2 down the final stretch but was blown out the building at IUP (30 points) and at Edinboro (44 points). Not sure what the deal is there.

But, these two know each other awfully well. Cal got in severe foul trouble at the KCAC and IUP was in the zone. The final spread probably should have been worse that night.

Cal's had a week off to work out some demons ... fully expect this to be a single-digit game today -- for whomever wins.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Iup basketball

Ladies

IUP vs Cal

12 p.m. today.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Iup basketball

Unfortunately, ... we'll never know.

[IUPalum]

Re: Iup basketball

I sure know that if this IUP team stayed healthy all year that that they were one of the top 4 in this region. This team can beat any team in this region and Lombardi can out coach any one in this region. My only issue with this team was depth but other than that they were one of the top 4 easily!

[Golden89]

Re: Iup basketball

Good summary, BigINDIANS. The last three versions of IUP have been quite good, but not to the level of the 2015 squad that made it to the national championship. Next year will be pivotal for IUP and the direction of the program.

[boatcapt]

Re: Iup basketball

I don't pay a lot of attention to IUP basketball but from what I've seen and read, it appears to be a little of "all of the above." Part identity, part recruiting, part depth, part bad luck, part scheduling, and part not having a true team leader(s). Seems to me that IUP is trying to "cover all the bases" from a style/identity stand point...equal part outside shooting game/big inside game/defensive specialists/slashers. That's a difficult team to build even when you use your entire bench and dam near impossible when you only play 7 or maybe 8 deep. You may cover all the bases but you are going to be paper thin with zero ability to overcome injuries or just bad play in a given area. Having 8 to 10 studs on full rides sounds great but unfortunately, there are quite a few transfer players that just don't live up to their hype...transfer players are often also a little selfish with the ball and that can negatively effects team dynamics. From a depth stand point, I've always been in favor of the 100/50/25 recruiting philosophy...Take 50% of your schollys and give 100% rides to your top four players, take 50% of your remaining $'s and give 50% rides to the next four players, then the rest of the $'s for 25% rides to the rest of your bench...you may not get all conf players at the end of the bench but you are going to get better than intermural. Can't defeat bad luck but you can anticipate it by building some depth through the first quarter of your season...get your 9, 10, 11 and 12 guys some playing time early so that you know what your have and they get a little comfortable in game situations. Scheduling "hard" is GREAT...when you win...devastating when you don't. Cherry pick one or maybe two tough OOC games instead of four and the other two against teams that you think will finish roughly 500. Sure, you'll take a small SOS hit if both the lesser schools finish below 500 but you will probably end up with two additional W's which helps more than SOS (or at least it SHOULD!!). But probably the most important is decide what you want to be and become it...if you want to be a typical PSAC inside slug fest team, make that your recruiting priority...if you want to run and slash, recruit to that...if you want to play pressure D and pop from 3, bring in primarily those type guys. Doesn't mean you can bring in ONLY players that play the type you pick but 90% of your team should be players that play the style you have decided on.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Iup basketball

Those are some interesting thoughts and points.

* It's very difficult to compare the programs of the Edwards and Lombardi regimes. It was a different time back then and the league was much different. That was the 'hey day' of the tough PSAC West. Edwards had great success and won some regionals ('00 & '02) and the '02 team made it the Final Four. His '01-'02 team was, my opinion, one of the Top 3 in program history. Edwards had big stars (Rodney Horton, Dennis Mims, Mike Beckles, Steve Menifee, Geoff Evans, DeWayne Anthony, Sly McIntosh) but he lived off the high-profile, high-risk transfers. Those teams were full of mercenaries ... one-year types, baggage, etc. His 2000 team won the Regional Final by 33 points -- and by the end had a 6.5 man rotation. Edwards teams were what they were -- but they were full of very hard-nosed kids. I don't think the football team would have messed with some of those guys -- certainly not Beckles or Mims. At the same time, the football program was built in a similar manner back then.

* Joe's timeline is certainly interesting at this point. With Dante leaving after next year it could certainly seem like the logical time to retire. He has a strong, deep core returning, and, I agree, will go all in this off-season for a big run. That said, he's not 'that' old. He has a pretty plush job here. If he were to leave, I'd have no worries long-term. This is one of the best D2 jobs in the country -- salary, facilities, campus, tradition, support, finances, etc. There would be a mountain-size stack of strong applications -- including some of the top coaches in the PSAC.

* Now, of course, when you take the second to last sentence in the above paragraph ... that's where the problem also starts. IUP does have one of the highest-paid coaches in the country. Great facility. Tradition. Support. Money. Every thing is in place. Literally, every thing. So, why did they miss two of the past three tournaments? Why are they struggling with teams with half the payroll? I don't think there's a single answer. I tend to think it's an array of items.

* Joe has recruited what I'll call 'front line' players very well. He's landed some big stars. IUP has had the West Player of the Year the past four seasons. Where he's struggled, in my eyes, is the secondary (role) players. Recall the double Aussie experiment, Travis Tomer, Manny Yarde, etc. Some on this now-in-the-books team didn't live up to expectations, either.

* Compare the 'mental toughness' of these past three Joe teams to the previous four Joe teams. Not even in the same neighborhood. You think Devante Chance would have tolerated the tom-follery this past team displayed? He'd have kicked their as$es. Malik Miller has the potential to be that guy. You can see it in him. Has it effected them in the biggest games ... not a doubt in my mind. Either of Joe's national finalist teams would have beat this team by 25 points, which brings up the next point.

* How many players on this most recent team would have started for either national finalist team? Maybe one? Cobo over Jeffers? Does Glover start over Dyer, Norfleet or Chance? Maybe. Maybe not. That's it. The rest would have been role players on those teams -- some, deep role players. How many times did you ever see a player mess with Devante Chance compared to how many times have you seen people mess with Dante Lombardi? Think about that.

While there are some issues to fix, this was a good team this year. It was a snake-bitten team at every turn. As you said, the stars aligned perfectly with one debacle after another. But, that stuff happens. These years happen to most every program. For what seems like forever now, the 2018-19 team has been the target. This is probably the most important recruiting class of Joe's tenure. They have a very strong core returning but they need some key pieces ... need a little Devante toughness ... need a big shooter ... need some freaking depth.

And, for the love of God, go for it next year. Don't bring in guys to redshirt. We've seen that movie. Twice now. The ending sucks.

[IUP Extra Mile]

Re: Iup basketball

INteresting take on IUP's softness...I'd say there's some validity to that, if you compare the more successful teams of past 5-6 years...

I do think depth is an issue as well...

Will be interesting if JOe does leave after next year....but he better do a good job, otherwise no one will hire him if he wants to move on to D1

[IUP24]

Re: Iup basketball

Nobody responded to what I posted last night... And I'm honestly not surprised. A lot of the stuff that I mentioned has been brewing with that team over the last 2-3 years. That post summed it up. Everybody is just glossing over it though, pretending it's not true. Yeah, the depth is an issue. But the depth has always been an issue. Every year. Even in 2015. They played 7 guys that year. The depth is only "the problem" when the planets all align like they did this season. The depth isn't the real "problem." Their identity is.

When the topic of IUP disappearing in big games was brought up after losing to Findlay, Ferris State, and Virginia State, people attributed it to injuries to start the year. When IUP blew a huge lead to West Chester during the PSAC tournament 2 years ago, it was just "bad luck." When it was mentioned after the West Chester loss this year that IUP had become soft, people said it was "just a bad day." Take a hard look at this program. Take a hard look at this team. Remove the blinders. They've lost their identity. It's non-existent. They have had two of the best players in the league for the last 3 years, missed the tournament twice, and won just one game when it really mattered. In the very recent past, that program won a lot of games simply getting off the bus. As a team, they were "hard." Nobody fears them anymore. That's not a talent issue. That's an identity issue.

I may be young. I wasn't around for Gary Edwards or the "hey day" of the Memorial Field House. You could say I'm spoiled - my freshman year the KCAC opened up. But I see where this is all headed. Everybody here is focused on recruiting and this offseason. My focus is on the identity of this program moving forward; because right now, it doesn't have much of one. Has anybody thought about what the off-season will be like after next season when Joe Lombardi announces his retirement or takes a Division 1 job elsewhere? Because that's where this is all headed. I see the writing on the wall... Dante, Cobo, and Willem will be seniors. He'll go for it next year because it's his son's senior year. Sure, he's a basketball coach, but he's a father too. He'll bring in the mercenaries and the one year guys to give it one last shot. When he graduates 3-6 guys (assuming he brings in one year players) and has only 2 experienced guys returning for the following year, he'll know that he doesn't have a contending team. He would have a son moving on with his life's work as well. Nothing will be keeping Bravado Joe in Indiana anymore. The reality is that we likely have one more year with him at the helm. This program could go south very, very quickly.

At that point you have limited guys returning; you have an identity issue; and you don't have a coach. That's not a good situation moving forward. Unlike many, I don't think it's a forgone conclusion that Chris Fite simply drops everything and takes an open IUP job. Am I looking at this with a broad lens? Sure, but I believe this where the next couple years are heading if the program doesn't get injected with some attitude very quickly.

Some of the PSAC teams with their dancing shoes on this weekend really aren't that much better than IUP, if at all. Again, there's legitimate talent on that team. So why are they what they are? You can blame the grease fire or the lack of depth all you want. I look at their schedule and the results. That team easily could have only won 16-17 games this season. Why? It's not the talent. I'll keep saying it.. It's the attitude.

They need alphas. They need a Devante, an Anthony Wells, a Mathis, a Marcel, a Shawn Dyer. They need a guy to stand up and command that room. They don't have one of those right now. Those previous IUP teams had clusters of those guys. Those guys didn't start slow. Those guys didn't play down to their competition. Those guys didn't blow huge leads. The thing that's crazy... I don't think any of those teams were that much better as far as pure talent than this team, or last year, or the one Norfleet's senior year. So keep talking about recruiting. Keep mentioning the depth. Keep bringing up Jalen Vaughns, Armoni Foster, and Dom Keyes. I'll bring up the real issues.

Joe isn't long for this program. They need a culture change. Fast.

[IUPalum]

Re: Iup basketball

SoI guess the biggest question is what is the deal with Jalen Vaughns? Status? Why did he get no PT towards the end of the season? Is he in the doghouse? Is he going to stay? Can he even help? This topic has frustrated me all year.