PO Seeding - We can do better

[Gliac_fan10]

Talking about Region 1. You expect a team from Region 1 to be road warriors for years before they get the privileges awarded the entitled programs of D2.

Judt admit you all want the field titles in your favor so you don’t have to battle very hard and have every advantage possible.

I was just providing a straight forward example, you didn't mention anything about SR1 in your question where you asked about a supposed weaker conference (i.e. the GLVC). Not really understanding unless maybe you are arguing that only SR1 has supposedly weaker conferences?, Sorry If the confusion is on my end I just truly don't understand your response based on your original question. Secondly, I've been staying out of this and I could be wrong, but I don't think anybody is asking for an advantage, just that they are not put a large disadvantage (Which any sane person cannot argue that the MIAA and GLIAC are not at a disadvantage being paired together.)

[Ram040506]

Beat the teams in front of you, but don't take the stance that the conference deserves a seat at the semifinal table because of it. GVSU was not taken as seriously as it is back in 2001. They came out of the NE region, which was always beaten in the semifinals, with few occurrences. They continued to build their program, narrowly lost a championship game followed up by consecutive wins. This success resulted in bringing attention and prestige to the programs that did eventually beat them, such as the 2003 SVSU program that reached a #1 ranking prior to the 2003 playoffs. Ferris, for as good as they became under TA, didn't get the amount of respect that they deserved until they continuously showed that they owned the Lakers.

Prior to 2001, GVSU had not won a D2 playoff game, losing a number of games to the PSAC schools, including in 1998 to Slippery Rock, I believe. GVSU was 5-5 in 1999 and 7-4 in 2000, starting 1-4 before reeling off six straight wins to end the season. They weren't a power, and played in a joke of a SR. They developed a program above what they had before, and have found a way to continue with that over the last 20+years. They have performed very well against upper competition and as a result have pulled numerous programs up because they wanted to topple the giant. That meant FSU brings in TA to take control of the conference. Davenport hires a former AFL coach to guide them to national rankings and a playoff appearance. SVSU has had to step up their game to get national attention.

In the PSAC, you can have multiple conference champions and stake a claim to great conference competition, but when the national championship is played for through a bracketed system, and the SR1 champ is not holding their own year in and year out against the best the nation has to offer, you have to ask why they have a seat at the semifinal table when more talented teams are being knocked out of the playoffs too early. To put it in much too simple terms, this is like having the Big 10 and SEC battle for a single seat while the 1-loss MAC/WAC teams battle for a second seat. One of these is not like the other. Yes, NIU and Boise St can make some noise once in a great while, but they shouldn't be included in the final four unless they truly earn it by going through the top tier teams that make the playoffs.

At no time have I said that the SR 1 teams should be eliminated from the playoffs, but they should earn that seat at the semifinal table. If that means realignment with a GLIAC or MIAA heading to SR1, then so be it. It's not about the easiest path for the Lakers, it's about the best competitive balance for the semifinals. As it stands, GVSU would still have to go through the fight with the GLIAC and would either end up with FSU or whoever beats them in the playoffs (given the current situation). If Slippery Rock or IUP is good enough to knock off those GLIAC teams, then do so on the field.

As a SR1 fan for Shepherd, I endorse most of the meat of the whole thread that we need to get rid of regional playoff formats. SR1 hasn't earned the right to have a semi final berth every year, I can't dispute it. Shepherd has been one of the teams being smoked, I'm not going to make excuses for it. The only caveat that I'd like to see remain is some type of regional inclusion in a national playoff if that ever came to be. There is not enough play between conferences or regions to clearly differentiate teams fairly, so I'd be for the top 8 in each region enters a 32 team playoff.

I'd also 100% be in for the GLIAC being moved back in SR1. It just doesn't make sense because of the amount of schools that are already in SR1, it would be completely unbalanced in terms of # of schools. If the powers that be would put in a small amount of effort, you can avoid massive amount of flights/travel and have a well represented/competitive national D2 playoff.

Back to your regular Kle and Nation programming!

[EastStroud13]

As a SR1 fan for Shepherd, I endorse most of the meat of the whole thread that we need to get rid of regional playoff formats. SR1 hasn't earned the right to have a semi final berth every year, I can't dispute it. Shepherd has been one of the teams being smoked, I'm not going to make excuses for it. The only caveat that I'd like to see remain is some type of regional inclusion in a national playoff if that ever came to be. There is not enough play between conferences or regions to clearly differentiate teams fairly, so I'd be for the top 8 in each region enters a 32 team playoff.

I'd also 100% be in for the GLIAC being moved back in SR1. It just doesn't make sense because of the amount of schools that are already in SR1, it would be completely unbalanced in terms of # of schools. If the powers that be would put in a small amount of effort, you can avoid massive amount of flights/travel and have a well represented/competitive national D2 playoff.

Back to your regular Kle and Nation programming!

This is why I'm in favor of adding 4 wild card selections. It gives a little wiggle room for teams that meet the eye test but don't have it reflected in their regional ranking, and it doesn't impact the geographic balance of the regions.

Adding 4 wild card selections and seeding the top 4 (or 8) teams nationally are the simplest ways to improve the balance of the bracket. No need to completely re-invent the wheel here.

[Bearhof]

PSAC in play against teams not from current SR1 pool:

2011:
St. Cloud defeats Cal PA 26-3
Cheyney defeats Lincoln 21-19
Cal PA defeats Elizabeth City State 44-0 (playoffs)
Winston-Salem defeats Cal PA 35-28 (playoffs)

2012:
Cheyney defeats Lincoln 34-21
Winston-Salem defeats East Stroudsburg 37-14 (playoffs)
Winston-Salem defeats IUP 21-17 (playoffs)

2013:
Lincoln defeats Cheyney 33-28
Winston-Salem defeats Slippery Rock 27-20 (playoffs)
Lenoir-Rhyne defeats West Chester 42-14 (playoffs)

2014:
Livingstone defeats Millersville 46-44
Carson-Newman defeats Edinboro 38-24
Lincoln defeats Cheyney 30-18
IUP defeats St. Augustine's 41-19
Cal PA defeats Virginia State 33-24
Bloomsburg defeats Virginia State 35-14 (playoffs)

2015:
St. Joseph's defeats Edinboro 30-10
Lenoir-Rhyne defeats West Chester 41-28
Lincoln defeats Cheyney 29-22
Cal PA defeats Virginia State 35-16
Slippery Rock defeats Virginia Union 40-21 (playoffs)

2016:
Cheyney defeats Lincoln 21-10
Seton Hill defeats Bowie State 50-48
Edinboro defeats St. Joseph's 31-30

2017:
Cheyney defeats Lincoln 56-28
Slippery Rock defeats Kentucky State 42-21
Bowie State defeats Seton Hill 48-7
West Florida defeats IUP 27-17 (playoffs)

2018:
Ferris State defeats East Stroudsburg 49-17
Virginia Union defeats Seton Hill 34-28
Slippery Rock defeats Kentucky State 38-31
Clarion defeats Lincoln 44-7
Texas A&M Commerce defeats Lock Haven 68-6

2019:
Slippery Rock defeats Wayne State 62-37
Lock Haven defeats Lincoln 57-13
GVSU defeats Edinboro 35-10
Minnesota State defeats Slippery Rock 58-15

2021:
Slippery Rock defeats Wayne State 24-21
(GVSU/Edinboro canceled, or this would have been a loss for Edinboro)
Lock Haven defeats Lincoln 20-0
Ferris State defeats Shepherd 55-7 (playoffs)

2022:
Slippery Rock defeats Wayne State 42-10
Colorado Mines defeats Shepherd 44-13 (playoffs)

2023:
Ferris State defeats Mercyhurst 54-12
Newberry defeats Shippensburg 14-10
Slippery Rock defeats Wayne State 28-17

The PSAC has 20 wins over non-SR1 schools since 2011. 15 of those wins are against the CIAA and SIAC, arguably the two worst conferences in D2. And 4 of those wins are by the PSAC's best team, against the GLIAC's worst team. The other win is over a school that doesn't even exist anymore.

So the PSAC has 0 wins since 2011 over schools that aren't SR1, CIAA, SIAC, or the worst team in the GLIAC. Not a single win over an actual quality opponent by the PSAC since 2011.

Go beat someone. Anyone with a pulse.

You left off Lenoir Rhyne 63-17 over Shepherd 2023 playoff

[IUPNation]

Beat teams outside of your conference, and then beat teams outside of your region.

No I want entitlement like you.

[IUPNation]

PSAC in play against teams not from current SR1 pool:

2011:
St. Cloud defeats Cal PA 26-3
Cheyney defeats Lincoln 21-19
Cal PA defeats Elizabeth City State 44-0 (playoffs)
Winston-Salem defeats Cal PA 35-28 (playoffs)

2012:
Cheyney defeats Lincoln 34-21
Winston-Salem defeats East Stroudsburg 37-14 (playoffs)
Winston-Salem defeats IUP 21-17 (playoffs)

2013:
Lincoln defeats Cheyney 33-28
Winston-Salem defeats Slippery Rock 27-20 (playoffs)
Lenoir-Rhyne defeats West Chester 42-14 (playoffs)

2014:
Livingstone defeats Millersville 46-44
Carson-Newman defeats Edinboro 38-24
Lincoln defeats Cheyney 30-18
IUP defeats St. Augustine's 41-19
Cal PA defeats Virginia State 33-24
Bloomsburg defeats Virginia State 35-14 (playoffs)

2015:
St. Joseph's defeats Edinboro 30-10
Lenoir-Rhyne defeats West Chester 41-28
Lincoln defeats Cheyney 29-22
Cal PA defeats Virginia State 35-16
Slippery Rock defeats Virginia Union 40-21 (playoffs)

2016:
Cheyney defeats Lincoln 21-10
Seton Hill defeats Bowie State 50-48
Edinboro defeats St. Joseph's 31-30

2017:
Cheyney defeats Lincoln 56-28
Slippery Rock defeats Kentucky State 42-21
Bowie State defeats Seton Hill 48-7
West Florida defeats IUP 27-17 (playoffs)

2018:
Ferris State defeats East Stroudsburg 49-17
Virginia Union defeats Seton Hill 34-28
Slippery Rock defeats Kentucky State 38-31
Clarion defeats Lincoln 44-7
Texas A&M Commerce defeats Lock Haven 68-6

2019:
Slippery Rock defeats Wayne State 62-37
Lock Haven defeats Lincoln 57-13
GVSU defeats Edinboro 35-10
Minnesota State defeats Slippery Rock 58-15

2021:
Slippery Rock defeats Wayne State 24-21
(GVSU/Edinboro canceled, or this would have been a loss for Edinboro)
Lock Haven defeats Lincoln 20-0
Ferris State defeats Shepherd 55-7 (playoffs)

2022:
Slippery Rock defeats Wayne State 42-10
Colorado Mines defeats Shepherd 44-13 (playoffs)

2023:
Ferris State defeats Mercyhurst 54-12
Newberry defeats Shippensburg 14-10
Slippery Rock defeats Wayne State 28-17

The PSAC has 20 wins over non-SR1 schools since 2011. 15 of those wins are against the CIAA and SIAC, arguably the two worst conferences in D2. And 4 of those wins are by the PSAC's best team, against the GLIAC's worst team. The other win is over a school that doesn't even exist anymore.

So the PSAC has 0 wins since 2011 over schools that aren't SR1, CIAA, SIAC, or the worst team in the GLIAC. Not a single win over an actual quality opponent by the PSAC since 2011.

Go beat someone. Anyone with a pulse.

IUP beat Ashland in the season opener in 2017 when they went on to become GLIAC champions

So once again you are WRONG.

lol

Then for good measure IUP beat them again 2018 as a member of the GLIAC.

Next.

[KleShreen]

IUP beat Ashland in the season opener in 2017 when they went on to become GLIAC champions

So once again you are WRONG.

lol

Then for good measure IUP beat them again 2018 as a member of the GLIAC.

Next.

Oh, the Ashland that ran away to your region because they couldn't get out of their own region. Cool.

Alright, you can have the wins against the team that tucked their tail to join you. That's....uh.....two in 13 seasons.

[KleShreen]

You left off Lenoir Rhyne 63-17 over Shepherd 2023 playoff

Thanks, forgot the region flip.

[IUPNation]

Oh, the Ashland that ran away to your region because they couldn't get out of their own region. Cool.

Alright, you can have the wins against the team that tucked their tail to join you. That's....uh.....two in 13 seasons.

So you moved the goal
posts . Got it. Actually you intentionally forgot to post it because it didn’t help your sad hate filled agenda.


lol

[IUPNation]

So I think somebody might have suggested this already but I’m not going back to find out.

Since any changes will have to appease every conference and not to just make two happier…I think this could be option 3 on top of my other two fixes.

1. Water down the field by going to 32. That way the 5-6th place teams in the MIAA get picked because they are powerhouses that never get a chance or do I’m told.

2. Still bracket and seed on a somewhat regional basis but not strict regionalization for the first two rounds. That would say allow for teams currently in different regions but not far apart to potentially meet in round 1 and avoid conference rematches in round 1 unless a conference gets 3-4 teams in and it’s hard to avoid. There are no first round byes.

3. To appease every conference, give every conference champion in the field guaranteed home games for the first two rounds. It’s an incentive and a reward to win your conference.

4. After 2 rounds, everyone left gets reseeded. Top 4 get the home games.

5. Do it again for the final 4, top 2 get the home games.

You are welcome.

[fitzpats]

Then if we just keep assuming only certain conferences have the best teams when do you take a program who is building up in a supposed weaker conference get taken seriously?

Brandon summed it up very well in another thread, which is what I believe most here are discussing. While he's talking about the GAC and OBU, HSU, and HU, it feels very on point for this topic.

Since I'm the only "Admin" that has posted in this thread, I'll assume you're talking about me.

The confusion was my fault. I didn't mean what you said I wrote, but what I wrote was not precise enough. Obviously, I knew that Ouachita has won a playoff game. When Todd Knight was on ID2FB I asked him about his playoff record. I knew that Henderson had beaten Sioux Falls. We talked about it in the green room on ID2FB.

What I meant to say was that it will take deeper playoff runs by other teams against established programs for another GAC team to earn greater respect. What you quoted about beating Harding during the regular season is fine, but that's not going to garner the type of attention needed to change perception, nationally.

[ESU Warrior]

Ferris traveled to Lenoir Ryne last year and played Central Washington - teams in the final 8 this year. There is other football teams you can play - I know GV, Ferris and all of the GLIAC would play the PSAC or anyone else. Its the PSAC that doesn't want to go outside their bubble - Victories outside of the conference should be worth more points - if it is a ranked team even more.

East Stroudsburg did play Ferris a couple years ago (which Ferris did stomp them, but that isn't the point), as well as Ohio Dominican. Slippery Rock does play Wayne, IUP did play Ashland. Edinboro did have a series with GVSU. All schools from the GLIAC. In the past ESU has played Lenoir Ryne also., and this past year Ship played Newberry. Bloom even played Ashland when they were a top contender in the GLIAC. I can't speak on behalf of other schools, but your comment of the PSAC not wanting to go outside their bubble isn't completely accurate.

[IUPNation]

East Stroudsburg did play Ferris a couple years ago (which Ferris did stomp them, but that isn't the point). Slippery Rock does play Wayne, IUP did play Ashland. All schools from the GLIAC. In the past ESU has played Lenoir Ryne also. I can't speak on behalf of other schools, but your comment of the PSAC not wanting to go outside their bubble isn't completely accurate.

Shippensburg played Newberry from Region 2 this year. They were a playoff team last year.

[ESU Warrior]

As a SR1 fan for Shepherd, I endorse most of the meat of the whole thread that we need to get rid of regional playoff formats. SR1 hasn't earned the right to have a semi final berth every year, I can't dispute it. Shepherd has been one of the teams being smoked, I'm not going to make excuses for it. The only caveat that I'd like to see remain is some type of regional inclusion in a national playoff if that ever came to be. There is not enough play between conferences or regions to clearly differentiate teams fairly, so I'd be for the top 8 in each region enters a 32 team playoff.

I'd also 100% be in for the GLIAC being moved back in SR1. It just doesn't make sense because of the amount of schools that are already in SR1, it would be completely unbalanced in terms of # of schools. If the powers that be would put in a small amount of effort, you can avoid massive amount of flights/travel and have a well represented/competitive national D2 playoff.

Back to your regular Kle and Nation programming!

This is pretty accurate. Many people do realize that SR1 does not hold up as other SR's. Once in a while you get a team that can, Shep when they beat GVSU, and Cal almost beating Valdosta. Its not common though. I also don't have an issue with the GLIAC moving into SR1 because it does balance out the brackets better.

[KleShreen]

Nation is right. I've been coming at this all wrong.

Here's my idea to appease him, and only him. I don't know if it will be enough, but I'm willing to try.

10 team playoff. 7 SR1 teams, nothing changes with them. And then 3 other teams. 1 from each other super region.

In year 1, we'll start by sending the #1 seeds from the other super regions. And they all have to play on the road (every other SR team has to play on the road every single year. SR1 gets permanent home field advantage).

If one of the other SR teams still wins the championship out of there, then the next year, we'll send the #2 seeds from the other super regions.

If one of the other SR teams still wins the championship out of there, then the next year, we'll send the #3 seeds from the other super regions.

So on and so forth.

Once an SR1 team actually wins the championship, then we'll bump the other SR teams back up one seed. If an SR1 team ever actually wins over the other SR's #1 seeds, then we'll start talking about a normal playoff again. And it won't just stop at the #7 seed for the other SR teams. We'll keep working down the list for as long as it takes.

Bam. Solved.