PO Seeding - We can do better

[KleShreen]

Right. You have substantially more money than almost every D2 school and you are basically the D2 equivalent of an over grown duck in a diaper…


:-)

And yet your school would trade positions with GV every single day, twice on Saturday.

[IUPNation]

That's what's being done now.

Maybe. But it’s keeping the doors open for up and coming programs to get a chance otherwise it turns into a caste system where certain teams get the benefit of the doubt every year and don’t have to prove themselves anymore. I don’t see where past years have any relevance this year when players are now hopping from team to team. Teams can literally change drastically these days.

Obviously the answer is to cut the field..,you only want the best teams then only have a field of the best teams. Why have a bigger field? There is no point.

[fitzpats]

Trying to engineer the playoffs so certain teams make the semis every year is wishful thinking.

Last year, The NFL had a team (Buccaneers)with a losing record as a 4 seed in the NFC. Got a spot while the Lions with a better record and really a better team sat home. Hosted the Cowturds who won 4 more games. It’s going to happen again this season. There is no rule that says they have to cancel the NFC South’s spot because we want teams with a better record. The NFC South champion gets a spot. Thats just how it goes.

I only toss grenades because I don’t like some of the attitudes towards Region 1. I made a few serious posts about changes and nobody bothered to respond. So that just leaves me to believe the entitled conferences and programs want to make the rules and decide who is worthy. A D2 caste system. How many years would it take beating the worthy to get the benefit of the doubt for Region 1 program on the rise ? One season? 5? A decade? Never?

First, nobody said to kick the teams from SR 1 out of the playoffs. They only said that the competitive balance is off giving way for teams that haven't proven themselves against the best to get a seat at the most important games of the season.

Now, to answer the bolded question in the quote above, that's going to vary. It took GVSU 3 years, if not more, to really be taken seriously. Go back to my previous post about how GVSU came out of the joke NE Region to gain their footing. Could they have been a flash in the pan? Absolutely, and the school and region would have issues to this day. But, GVSU went on to win back-to-back titles out of the NE region before realignment was completed. Then they continued their strong showing against various other strong conferences, which gave credence to the GLIAC. What also helped was having SVSU beat GVSU in the regular season in 2003, move up in the rankings to end the season at #1, and then have a defensive battle with GVSU in Saginaw in the post season where GVSU won 10-3 on a pick six. Two teams in the top five battling it out in the playoffs and making a championship game run. The NE/SR1 has various teams make the semifinals and then lose consistently to the other SR representatives. Excluding GVSU, the NE/SR1 regions have made the finals 3 times, and all three times have lost by at least 27 points, since the 2000 season. However, the NE/SR1 regions have been allowed to get a team into the semifinals every single year with nobody making noise.

Here's how SR1 has fared since 2000

2000	Bloomsburg
2001	GVSU
2002	GVSU
2003	GVSU
2004	West Chester -24
2005	East Stroudsburg -35
2006	Bloomsburg -30
2007	California -4
2008	California -38
2009	California -25
2010	Shepherd -12
2011	Winston-Salem -7
2012	Winston-Salem +23
2013	West Chester -28
2014	Concord -34
2015	Shepherd +2
2016	Shepherd -10
2017	IUP -10
2018	Notre Dame -6
2019	Slippery Rock -43
2020	Cancelled
2021	Shepherd -48
2022	Shepherd -31

The fact that once every 7 years a SR 1 team gets to the championship, but has yet to win one, proves that the region isn't competing with the other top teams in the nation. You can blame it on the fact that the school have to raise every dollar of their scholarship money, but that does not entitle them to the semifinal game while more talented, more deserving teams don't get that chance. If the SR1 teams have the talent to get there, they should do so playing against better competition. Shepherd has made 5 semifinal appearances with a single finals appearance beating GVSU in 2015. Since that game, though, Shepherd is 0-3 losing by an average of 29.67 points per game. On the flip side, solid teams like Harding, GVSU, NWMSU, UCM, Minnesota State, Angelo State, Colorado Mines and Texas A&M-Commerce have had to be sent home in earlier rounds because the NCAA has guaranteed the SR1 a spot in the semifinals without thinking about competitive balance.

[EastStroud13]

He has said multiple times that the only thing the PSAC schools care about is winning in the region. That that is what is important to those schools. If that's truly how the schools feel, then they shouldn't be playing in a nation-wide football tournament. Step out of the national tournament playoff and host your own events like some of the HBCU's do. Have your own SR1 tournament and have the SR1 championship be the last game of the year.

The HBCU champs opt out of the FCS playoffs because the Celebration Bowl is better than any playoff game they could play. A random bowl game between the PSAC and GMAC champs does not hold that type of cachet. If it was about competitiveness, you wouldn't see MEAC/SWAC runner-ups opt into the playoffs... but you do.

Teams aren't going to opt out of the tournament just for fun. Making playoff runs means something to teams, even if a national championship isn't realistic.

[FSUBulldog27]

If you want to have a serious discussion, ignore all the other stuff and just respond to me.

I know you get frustrated by the perceived slights to SR1. I understand it. Some criticism is accurate. Some is just ridiculous.

I read your thoughts. Every line.

Serious thoughts about changing perception. I think it would take two years. If Shepherd had repeated and competed in the 2016 playoffs I think that would have changed opinions. I think if Shepherd had not gotten dominated so badly by CSM who then was dominated by Ferris, minds might have been changed. Cal was starting to change some opinions back in the late 00's.

I don't even think it would take wins. People are going to be skeptical when the margins of defeat are larger than they should be in a playoff scenario.

Yes - exactly - the last few years the SR1 getting a team to the finals and being beaten very badly. I don't think winning 3 Semis games in a row is needed to change the narrative about SR1 its just being competitive in these games. So the perception is that SR1 is not as competitive as the other regions and other regions feel they have better teams that get eliminated in their region only to watch the SR1 team lose badly. That is why there is a few suggestions for having a more of National playoff than regional. Just seems this is the conversation every year and nothing changes. Who do we bring these comments to? Our conference commissioner? NCAA? How does change happen?

[IUPNation]

Yes - exactly - the last few years the SR1 getting a team to the finals and being beaten very badly. I don't think winning 3 Semis games in a row is needed to change the narrative about SR1 its just being competitive in these games. So the perception is that SR1 is not as competitive as the other regions and other regions feel they have better teams that get eliminated in their region only to watch the SR1 team lose badly. That is why there is a few suggestions for having a more of National playoff than regional. Just seems this is the conversation every year and nothing changes. Who do we bring these comments to? Our conference commissioner? NCAA? How does change happen?

An issue is you have conferences..and correct me if I’m wrong…having to pony up money for staging the playoffs. So what does the GLIAC commissioner say to the NE10 guy when you make changes for a national field that now takes away their chance of even one spot when the MIAA has to get 4 spots, the GLIAC has to get four and the GSC gets three…and the spots dry up? It’s basically the poor funding the rich like always. Maybe it’s not how it is but I was always under the impression some money for the staging came from each conference.

Everybody gonna want something for their cash.

[Ram040506]

If you want to have a serious discussion, ignore all the other stuff and just respond to me.

I know you get frustrated by the perceived slights to SR1. I understand it. Some criticism is accurate. Some is just ridiculous.

I read your thoughts. Every line.

Serious thoughts about changing perception. I think it would take two years. If Shepherd had repeated and competed in the 2016 playoffs I think that would have changed opinions. I think if Shepherd had not gotten dominated so badly by CSM who then was dominated by Ferris, minds might have been changed. Cal was starting to change some opinions back in the late 00's.

I don't even think it would take wins. People are going to be skeptical when the margins of defeat are larger than they should be in a playoff scenario.

I know the last 2 years of Shepherd (and this year's flameout) really hurt the perspective.

Shepherd did repeat as region champions in 2016 and hosted UNA in Shepherdstown. (now i'm whining) if not for a couple VERY controversial illegal men downfield calls, the Rams would have got the opportunity to get whacked again by NWMS in the final. Rams ended up losing 23-13 to UNA, but the game was a 1 score game until 2 mins left in the 4th quarter with UNA kicking a fg to go up 10.

[Brandon]

Maybe. But it’s keeping the doors open for up and coming programs to get a chance otherwise it turns into a caste system where certain teams get the benefit of the doubt every year and don’t have to prove themselves anymore.

Why have a bigger field? There is no point.

Being serious......do think that the guarantee that a SR1 team will make the semifinals is what keeps the programs afloat?

Being selected for the playoffs is the chance for a team to prove itself. Almost every alternative suggestion I have read calls for an automatic spot for conference champions.

[Brandon]

An issue is you have conferences..and correct me if I’m wrong…having to pony up money for staging the playoffs. So what does the GLIAC commissioner say to the NE10 guy when you make changes for a national field that now takes away their chance of even one spot when the MIAA has to get 4 spots, the GLIAC has to get four and the GSC gets three…and the spots dry up? It’s basically the poor funding the rich like always. Maybe it’s not how it is but I was always under the impression some money for the staging came from each conference.

Everybody gonna want something for their cash.

I don't think anyone, outside of those simply being pains in the ass, is trying to exclude any conference. It seems to me that most suggestions start with a restructure of the format once the teams are selected.

[Ram040506]

Being serious......do think that the guarantee that a SR1 team will make the semifinals is what keeps the programs afloat?

Being selected for the playoffs is the chance for a team to prove itself. Almost every alternative suggestion I have read calls for an automatic spot for conference champions.

A national playoff while maintaining regional representation of 32 teams is the best option.

[Brandon]

I know the last 2 years of Shepherd (and this year's flameout) really hurt the perspective.

Shepherd did repeat as region champions in 2016 and hosted UNA in Shepherdstown. (now i'm whining) if not for a couple VERY controversial illegal men downfield calls, the Rams would have got the opportunity to get whacked again by NWMS in the final. Rams ended up losing 23-13 to UNA, but the game was a 1 score game until 2 mins left in the 4th quarter with UNA kicking a fg to go up 10.

I remember that now. I think a win would have gone a long way, as would a close game against CSM last year.

[fitzpats]

An issue is you have conferences..and correct me if I’m wrong…having to pony up money for staging the playoffs. So what does the GLIAC commissioner say to the NE10 guy when you make changes for a national field that now takes away their chance of even one spot when the MIAA has to get 4 spots, the GLIAC has to get four and the GSC gets three…and the spots dry up? It’s basically the poor funding the rich like always. Maybe it’s not how it is but I was always under the impression some money for the staging came from each conference.

Everybody gonna want something for their cash.

Put a product on the field that warrants a playoff appearance? Would that be too much to ask?

[Gorilla John 92]

To me, the issue is more about money than the regionalization of things. It doesn't help that there are so few football teams west of the continental divide either.

Why is it that in FCS (IAA) that no teams from the same conference played against each other in the opening round? Why is it that this weekend you have Delaware travelling to Montana? Mercer @ South Dakota State? Sacramento State @ South Dakota? Southern Illinois at Idaho? Because they don't regionalize things as much and are willing to pay for travel. Heck they allow conference champs into the playoffs in non-scholarship leagues. Drake was a conference champ in a "non-scholarship" league and had the privilege of going to North Dakota State last weekend and lost 66-3 but they "got in". They made the big dance and lost in the first round not the quarter finals or semi's. To me that's the way it should be.

I have no problems with conference champs getting into the playoffs. Put conference champs in and then wildcards from across the county. The strongest teams will survive and one team won't have the perception/reality of an easy game to make it to the finals due to the lack of success from one region.

[IUPNation]

Being serious......do think that the guarantee that a SR1 team will make the semifinals is what keeps the programs afloat?

Being selected for the playoffs is the chance for a team to prove itself. Almost every alternative suggestion I have read calls for an automatic spot for conference champions.

It keeps interest going…if you make it so that a Region 1 team has to jump a hurdle 10 times bigger than an MIAA or GLiAC team how is that making it better.

I’m still pissed how IUP got hosed in 91 when they were the top ranked team in the country and got put on the road to a ****ing GSC team in the Semi’s because they had more money to stage the game. Then having to play the 93 finals va UNA in their home field. I don’t give a **** they barely won I will go to my grave believing IUP was the better and more talented team that day and if that game was in Indiana they and their junior high option offense would have been stomped. So I guess I’m much more sensitive to what I see as unfair when it comes to my region of the country…because IUP did what was necessary years ago and we got ****ed over in favor of the South. I’m shocked we got the home game vs North Dakota in 93…which of course we won.

[IUPNation]

I don't think anyone, outside of those simply being pains in the ass, is trying to exclude any conference. It seems to me that most suggestions start with a restructure of the format once the teams are selected.

It seems like many here are upset third and fourth place teams who didn’t win their conference and got left out are more worthy than conferences winners in the Northeast.