Minnesota State at Slippery Rock

[WarriorVoice]

That says more about you than it does about the Home Office...

[EastStroud13]

Yeah, because using just strength of schedule works perfectly, right?

The cap can just be decided by using the 75th percentile of all margins of victory, There: easy, reasonable, number-driven. But news flash: blind obedience to numbers can only take you so far. True success requires a combination of objective data and subjective eyes to manage that data. Coming up with an accurate rankings system is no different. If you disagree with that, then your brain and mine have a fundamental disagreement that will never be solved.

[laker]

Who decides that

I was at that game in the Alarus Center in Grand Forks. Playing in a dome was an even further advantage for the Mavs. MSU was milking the clock in the second half, just like UMC. Both teams wanted to get out of there. Yes, it could have been 100-0 but it would serve no purpose. When your third string is scoring easily it gets to where you hope you take a knee. But it would be even more insulting to do that in the third quarter.

If score differential was a criteria, that game would have been over a hundred and those other two probably in the 90s. You don't want to become a St Thomas and get kicked out of the league. Let your reserves play- they put in the practice time too- and it prevents ill feelings. I've seen high school teams call time outs in the last minute when way ahead just to rub it in.

There is no perfect system- there will always be problems no matter what you do. As crappy as the weather was in Slippery Rock, the game was on artificial turf. The weather in Mankato was MUCH colder and I love the grass field but it would have been tough to have a home game that day.

[jrshooter]

I have another theory on that, Ship, because I think Mid-Penn talent is just as good, if not better, than it was 10-15 years ago. And my theory has everything to do with FCS.

FCS around here has about the same presence as NAIA -- in other words, nil. The only FCS schools which fans might identify with are Bucknell, VIllanova, maybe Delaware. But with the growth of social media comes an understanding that there's more out there than what you see every day.

If a Harrisburg-area kid got interest from James Madison 15 years ago, their first question would be, "What is a James Madison?" They would be more excited to hear from West Chester or IUP. If they got that interest today, they would likely know James Madison is an FCS power with great facilities, a powerful program and a chance to play in front of crowds of 20,000 rather than 5,000.

The power HS programs around here are sending more kids to college ball than ever. They're just more far-flung. We have kids making contributions at New Hampshire (a rich landing ground for this area, for some reason). At Maine. At Stony Brook. That wasn't happening a decade or two ago.

And, of course, the dividing line between FCS talent and Division II talent isn't all that huge. That's where the PSAC is losing some potential studs.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I have another theory on that, Ship, because I think Mid-Penn talent is just as good, if not better, than it was 10-15 years ago. And my theory has everything to do with FCS.

FCS around here has about the same presence as NAIA -- in other words, nil. The only FCS schools which fans might identify with are Bucknell, VIllanova, maybe Delaware. But with the growth of social media comes an understanding that there's more out there than what you see every day.

If a Harrisburg-area kid got interest from James Madison 15 years ago, their first question would be, "What is a James Madison?" They would be more excited to hear from West Chester or IUP. If they got that interest today, they would likely know James Madison is an FCS power with great facilities, a powerful program and a chance to play in front of crowds of 20,000 rather than 5,000.

The power HS programs around here are sending more kids to college ball than ever. They're just more far-flung. We have kids making contributions at New Hampshire (a rich landing ground for this area, for some reason). At Maine. At Stony Brook. That wasn't happening a decade or two ago.

And, of course, the dividing line between FCS talent and Division II talent isn't all that huge. That's where the PSAC is losing some potential studs.

The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review ran an article a week ago about the Ivy League taking a lot of players out the WPIAL in recent years (this season included).

Frank Cignetti used to say all the time they could never compete against D1 schools -- even the bush league ones. In the West, we constantly see kids pick Robert Morris, Duquesne and St. Francis. It's all about Tweeting out that 'D1' offer and signing ... even if the said D1 wouldn't even win the PSAC. We've also lost many to Youngstown State. The MEC is heavily recruiting in the WPIAL now as are many smaller FCS schools from the DMV (Howard, Norfolk State, etc.).

However, the PSAC does a good job of getting many of those kids the second time around. The reality of spending four years in freaking Loretto, Pa., sets in pretty quickly.

In the past schools got a lot of crap for taking lots of transfers. Today, if you're not in the transfer game, you're not going to be very successful in the fall. It used to be transfers largely had baggage. Today it's just the norm to transfer. This is a HUGE period of time for our programs. Signing those mid-year transfers and getting them on campus for Spring Ball is a big advantage. It happens quickly. There are already some surprisingly big names floating around a couple programs in the West.

[Brandon]

My apologies .In hindsight, I misplaced that post.

In reality I posted it for anyone reading the thread to read.

No worries. Even though I don't always agree with you, I believe you are a rational poster who thinks out positions.

[Brandon]

.

The D2Football.com poll is comprised of staffers, broadcasters, and newspaper writers from across the country. The key is to get a wide range of voters. It's a wisdom of the crowd theory and I think it works well. I get feedback all the time from those in the know telling me they think it's the most accurate.

About the bolded.... Isn't that what we're focusing on?

[Brandon]

Actually IUP's SOS would be off the charts considering the crossovers if those teams all remain very competitive next year....it would also have to be how IUP was winning as well. If IUP was giving up a lot of points and barely winning against anyone, then yes...I'd be saying it was a joke but thank you very much. IUP got the top seed in 2017 because it was the only top seed to make the final four. IUP blew it big time because D2 was in a down year nationally that year but the past two years were much stronger. We really had a legit shot having most of the national powers not having typical years.

SOS by just looking at the numbers on the spreadsheet doesn't really tell the story of how strong that schedulle REALLY was....something that doesn't seem to compute in a certain people's heads.

Holy buckets. I thought you just liked to sling mud in the OT but you really do pay attention!

[Brandon]

There is also a lower population.

[Brandon]

That just doesnt work. You cant do that. Teams have injuries and other issues for one game that affect them. You cant say, well mankato beat Sioux Falls by 10, and then Sioux Falls beat Bemidji by 12, so Mankato would beat Bemidji by 22.

I assume most people in the NSIC would love to have an OOC game. We dont control that though. But even with one OOC game its still tough to compare. Mankato beats Mines by 5, then Mines bats Pueblo by 4, you cant assume Mankato would beat Pueblo by 9.

D2 football is just such a tough sport to rank and seed teams. Conferences are all different sizes and all have their own rules and regulations and way they do things. You cant insert subjective opinions in seeding either.

This is the same for all levels. Division II is not unique.

Seedings used to be entirely subjecting opinions and they were great. I trust football people making football decisions about who is and isn't good more than I trust administrators to design a system to pick and rank teams with little crossover data.

[msumavfan]

I agree, and I don't think it's hard most years to figure out which teams are the best 3-4 in each reason. They're usually the ones who are undefeated or one-loss squads. It gets somewhat harder with the 5-7 picks as you get into some two- and even three-loss teams on occasion. I think there probably the best guide is to look back and see what conferences or teams have the best playoff results over the years. That can change, but if you're a lightly regarded conference the onus is on you to have your top team win once in a while when they get into the playoffs. There are provisions now, I believe, to get an eighth- or ninth-rated squad with a good record into the playoffs if some of the other conferences have multiple teams, but the NE 10 was so down in our region that they couldn't even qualify anyone under that criterion this season.

[msumavfan]

I was at that game in the Alarus Center in Grand Forks. Playing in a dome was an even further advantage for the Mavs. MSU was milking the clock in the second half, just like UMC. Both teams wanted to get out of there. Yes, it could have been 100-0 but it would serve no purpose. When your third string is scoring easily it gets to where you hope you take a knee. But it would be even more insulting to do that in the third quarter.

If score differential was a criteria, that game would have been over a hundred and those other two probably in the 90s. You don't want to become a St Thomas and get kicked out of the league. Let your reserves play- they put in the practice time too- and it prevents ill feelings. I've seen high school teams call time outs in the last minute when way ahead just to rub it in.

There is no perfect system- there will always be problems no matter what you do. As crappy as the weather was in Slippery Rock, the game was on artificial turf. The weather in Mankato was MUCH colder and I love the grass field but it would have been tough to have a home game that day.

[iupgroundhog]

No worries. Even though I don't always agree with you, I believe you are a rational poster who thinks out positions.

Thanks. For the record, I don't mind if people disagree with me. I mean, if everybody agreed this would be pretty boring.

[Purple Mav Man]

I was at that game in the Alarus Center in Grand Forks. Playing in a dome was an even further advantage for the Mavs. MSU was milking the clock in the second half, just like UMC. Both teams wanted to get out of there. Yes, it could have been 100-0 but it would serve no purpose. When your third string is scoring easily it gets to where you hope you take a knee. But it would be even more insulting to do that in the third quarter.

If score differential was a criteria, that game would have been over a hundred and those other two probably in the 90s. You don't want to become a St Thomas and get kicked out of the league. Let your reserves play- they put in the practice time too- and it prevents ill feelings. I've seen high school teams call time outs in the last minute when way ahead just to rub it in.

There is no perfect system- there will always be problems no matter what you do. As crappy as the weather was in Slippery Rock, the game was on artificial turf. The weather in Mankato was MUCH colder and I love the grass field but it would have been tough to have a home game that day.

[Tundra_Man]

Thanks. For the record, I don't mind if people disagree with me. I mean, if everybody agreed this would be pretty boring.

I agree. Errr.... wait.