PASSHE Institutions Merging

[complaint_hopeful]

I think we will reach a point with this where the only recourse is legal. I have to think there will be lawsuits.

In particular, the 2 points I raised above. This was sold with the assumption that the NCAA would rule favorably. I think that was an empty promise.

I could see the faculty union suing.

As far as the NCAA...I don't know. Act 50 doesn't have a requirement for Athletic programs. I could maybe see student athlete's suing that they came to a school with a commitment for sports and it's gone.

[Fightingscot82]

I think we will reach a point with this where the only recourse is legal. I have to think there will be lawsuits.

In particular, the 2 points I raised above. This was sold with the assumption that the NCAA would rule favorably. I think that was an empty promise.

What frustrates me is that it took until 2021 integration committees to realize the ROI for athletics at each school. I still think that cutting athletics at Cheyney was a terrible decision for that very reason. I imagine it was buried in some report given to a council of trustees, but it wasn't common knowledge that athletes are around 10% of these schools' enrollment. Until then there was anecdotal evidence and sentiment keeping athletics. Meanwhile they used ROI as a reason for cutting music majors at Clarion & Edinboro.

I truly fear that the system board will approve this unanimously or with a large majority. The Republican-appointed members will pat themselves on the back for making a financially-responsible decision to right-size the system and cut costs. Others who know no better will think this is a great plan. The ones who did none of the work but believe that nobody knows this system like Greenstein.

I'm annoyed that the Western triad doesn't seem to be fighting this like those in the "Northeast" triad. Stockholm Syndrome from years of losses, failures, & micro-scandals I guess.

[complaint_hopeful]

Here's how I think this plays out.

1 ) The Integration goes through.
2 ) With some of the surplus stimulus money, the state gives PASSHE a 1 time 'bailout' that pays off a lot of the Res Hall and Construction Debt. <-- That is huge.
3 ) The Triads lose massive enrollment. Like 10% the 1st couple years, and it keeps to decline.
4 ) In regards to the NCAA...the NCAA makes them do things separately within this merged entity. ie Fin Aid depts, Athletic budgets, etc.
5 ) Greenstein leaves PASSHE within 2-3 years calling his time here a success.
6 ) Atleast 1 board member resigns as opposed to voting no. (I'm totally guessing on this. All of this is opinion/guesses.)
7 ) There is a Phase 2 of this plan which entails more layoffs and ALL PASSHE schools sharing online classes.
8 ) More services are shared through PASSHE and there is a push to standardize as much as possible.

[Fightingscot82]

Here's how I think this plays out.

1 ) The Integration goes through.
2 ) With some of the surplus stimulus money, the state gives PASSHE a 1 time 'bailout' that pays off a lot of the Res Hall and Construction Debt. <-- That is huge.
3 ) The Triads lose massive enrollment. Like 10% the 1st couple years, and it keeps to decline.
4 ) In regards to the NCAA...the NCAA makes them do things separately within this merged entity. ie Fin Aid depts, Athletic budgets, etc.
5 ) Greenstein leaves PASSHE within 2-3 years calling his time here a success.
6 ) Atleast 1 board member resigns as opposed to voting no. (I'm totally guessing on this. All of this is opinion/guesses.)
7 ) There is a Phase 2 of this plan which entails more layoffs and ALL PASSHE schools sharing online classes.
8 ) More services are shared through PASSHE and there is a push to standardize as much as possible.

I think that's a pretty good set of predictions. Greenstein will absolutely leave in a few years and spin this to his benefit. There are a lot more mergers coming and he'll work the higher ed circuit giving more interviews & talks about it. Surprisingly, I think the better plan would have been to consolidate all schools with IUP the western hub and West Chester in the east. It makes more sense than having integrated schools & semi-independent ones.

[complaint_hopeful]

What frustrates me is that it took until 2021 integration committees to realize the ROI for athletics at each school. I still think that cutting athletics at Cheyney was a terrible decision for that very reason. I imagine it was buried in some report given to a council of trustees, but it wasn't common knowledge that athletes are around 10% of these schools' enrollment. Until then there was anecdotal evidence and sentiment keeping athletics. Meanwhile they used ROI as a reason for cutting music majors at Clarion & Edinboro.

I truly fear that the system board will approve this unanimously or with a large majority. The Republican-appointed members will pat themselves on the back for making a financially-responsible decision to right-size the system and cut costs. Others who know no better will think this is a great plan. The ones who did none of the work but believe that nobody knows this system like Greenstein.

I'm annoyed that the Western triad doesn't seem to be fighting this like those in the "Northeast" triad. Stockholm Syndrome from years of losses, failures, & micro-scandals I guess.

The Cal U COT was going to vote to issue a resolution against integrating. Then they decided to delay the meeting to have more discussions with PASSHE.

But, yeah most of the fight is definately coming out of Lock Haven and Bloom I'd say. The West largely seems resigned to their fate.

[iupgroundhog]

I'm annoyed that the Western triad doesn't seem to be fighting this like those in the "Northeast" triad. Stockholm Syndrome from years of losses, failures, & micro-scandals I guess.

I know. And the western arrangement seems a lot more tenuous than the NE. The dynamics are very different. The western schools all have a very similar persona. The NE schools are 3 different types of institutions and see themselves affected in very different ways. As a result, I think the NE schools feel more of a loss of their unique identity. The western schools seem content with a future with no identity.

[complaint_hopeful]

I think that's a pretty good set of predictions. Greenstein will absolutely leave in a few years and spin this to his benefit. There are a lot more mergers coming and he'll work the higher ed circuit giving more interviews & talks about it. Surprisingly, I think the better plan would have been to consolidate all schools with IUP the western hub and West Chester in the east. It makes more sense than having integrated schools & semi-independent ones.

Indeed. And IF the whole...each campus keeps their identity part is correct...then what is the Con of doing it that way?

I feel like they rushed this to begin with but when the pandemic hit, they realized that more schools than just Chaney were out of reserves. So they panicked and accelerated the Sustainability Plans with all the layoffs. And then they realized, they wouldn't have enough employees to run these schools...which accelerated the Integration Plan.

That said, this won't be what solves the finances. Much like Chaney, a state bailout will. And much like Chaney, when they talk about how they survived in the future...they'll talk about the Integrations and business decisions...and omit talking about the bailout...ie loans that didn't have to be paid back.

I heard the Chancellor fielding questions from politicians and that's exactly what they do. They talk about how Chaney survived because of some great strategy and keen leadership.

[complaint_hopeful]

I know. And the western arrangement seems a lot more tenuous than the NE. The dynamics are very different. The western schools all have a very similar persona. The NE schools are 3 different types of institutions and see themselves affected in very different ways. As a result, I think the NE schools feel more of a loss of their unique identity. The western schools seem content with a future with no identity.

2 of the West schools have very small reserves...and those schools have the same President now. So I think those 2 facts limit the case they can make. (Much like in the NE you don't hear Mansfield fighting this much.)

The NE schools - 2 are really small and feel they will be gobbled up by Bloom. And Bloom doesn't want their debt. Lock Haven has healthy reserves so they feel they can make it on their own too.

The West - There's less sense that Cal U will gobble the other 2 up, because while Cal U is larger...it isn't that much larger.

[Fightingscot82]

There are already talks to have the state bail out construction debt. If they extinguished the debt and could get some sort of funding increase - either the Nelly Bly scholarships or an appropriations increase - that may be enough to go back to the original sustainability plans or at the very least stave off integration for a few years. To me its a fair ask since the state's lax governance & oversight allowed for this to happen.

[ironmaniup]

There are already talks to have the state bail out construction debt. If they extinguished the debt and could get some sort of funding increase - either the Nelly Bly scholarships or an appropriations increase - that may be enough to go back to the original sustainability plans or at the very least stave off integration for a few years. To me its a fair ask since the state's lax governance & oversight allowed for this to happen.

It would, and I'd think the banks that hold the debt would be happy too, rather than dealing with the risk.

As far as the west schools not fighting, sometimes apathy is the best strategy to stifle a plan - the "you can't get there from here" approach.

[complaint_hopeful]

There are already talks to have the state bail out construction debt. If they extinguished the debt and could get some sort of funding increase - either the Nelly Bly scholarships or an appropriations increase - that may be enough to go back to the original sustainability plans or at the very least stave off integration for a few years. To me its a fair ask since the state's lax governance & oversight allowed for this to happen.

Yeah I think this part will happen. But, I still think they do the sustainability plans and Integrations.

Greenstein was asked a question...like if you get $130 million from the state does that fix this? And his response was basically, well that doesn't help our enrollment and retention.

But, like I said...I don't know. It's all speculation.

As I understand it, the state is sitting on several billion dollars of coronavirus funding that they're looking for ways to spend.

[Fightingscot82]

Yeah I think this part will happen. But, I still think they do the sustainability plans and Integrations.

Greenstein was asked a question...like if you get $130 million from the state does that fix this? And his response was basically, well that doesn't help our enrollment and retention.

But, like I said...I don't know. It's all speculation.

As I understand it, the state is sitting on several billion dollars of coronavirus funding that they're looking for ways to spend.

If PASSHE were in the grocery store industry, we're Aldi. The only thing that makes us successful is pricing. Until they can revive the pricing gap between PASSHE & everyone else, enrollment & retention doesn't matter because people will choose the slightly more expensive option with a slightly better reputation. PASSHE students are the most price-sensitive of any classification of 4-year college students. Its the #1 reason students leave.

[complaint_hopeful]

One thing I want to point out on the debt is the Chancellor mentioned that it's not feasible to close campuses due to all the debt...but once that gets paid off...it becomes much easier to close campuses. So it's a Catch 22.

With the debt paid off, if a campus keeps losing enrollment, that may make a clear-cut case to close it.

[Fightingscot82]

One thing I want to point out on the debt is the Chancellor mentioned that it's not feasible to close campuses due to all the debt...but once that gets paid off...it becomes much easier to close campuses. So it's a Catch 22.

With the debt paid off, if a campus keeps losing enrollment, that may make a clear-cut case to close it.

True but very unlikely. It takes a full blown resolution in the PA General Assembly. The economic impact is very real and the legislators surrounding these schools know it. Being a PA legislator is a nice gravy train - they can't stop a big employer leaving with just a vote - so a vote for losing a major employer in their district would be a kiss of death even for a "why is my tax money paying for someone else's kids" state rep.

[complaint_hopeful]

True but very unlikely. It takes a full blown resolution in the PA General Assembly. The economic impact is very real and the legislators surrounding these schools know it. Being a PA legislator is a nice gravy train - they can't stop a big employer leaving with just a vote - so a vote for losing a major employer in their district would be a kiss of death even for a "why is my tax money paying for someone else's kids" state rep.

So to close a school takes a vote. But, in these Triads...Edinboro and Clarion will be branches of Cal U. LH and Mansfield will be branches of Bloom. That isn't how they'll market it. But from an accreditation perspective, that's how its setup.

Closing a branch campus wouldn't require all the drama. I know of some branch campuses that have closed.

And what would stop them to do it? Just like this Integration and all the public outcry. Say in 3 years they decide to close the Clarion campus...what stops them? Oh people lose their jobs! Oh the community impact! Oh students don't want more online! <--- It's the SAME THINGS people are complaining about in the public comment period.

In a few years, I think you'll see A LOT of sharing among all the schools. You'll likely need even less Faculty and Staff. And IF the online is successful, you might see less people on certain campuses. Those would be candidates to close.