PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Fightingscot82]

So to close a school takes a vote. But, in these Triads...Edinboro and Clarion will be branches of Cal U. LH and Mansfield will be branches of Bloom. That isn't how they'll market it. But from an accreditation perspective, that's how its setup.

Closing a branch campus wouldn't require all the drama. I know of some branch campuses that have closed.

And what would stop them to do it? Just like this Integration and all the public outcry. Say in 3 years they decide to close the Clarion campus...what stops them? Oh people lose their jobs! Oh the community impact! Oh students don't want more online! <--- It's the SAME THINGS people are complaining about in the public comment period.

In a few years, I think you'll see A LOT of sharing among all the schools. You'll likely need even less Faculty and Staff. And IF the online is successful, you might see less people on certain campuses. Those would be candidates to close.

Yes - but a lot of people are ingesting only the one-pager talking points and not reading the plan. The talking points all sound reasonable and "the least worst option". In 3 years, this plan will most likely make economic conditions worse in these areas. The members of the state legislature won't just hear about it, they'll experience it. Sharing isn't bad. We're actually set up to succeed in the future because we're part of a system. The independent privates are the ones who will struggle because they see their peers as competition. Technology can't totally replace biology. According to an old friend, we're designed in a way that certain things must be done in person. One thing college students love to do, and one thing they resist doing. Our brains are designed to learn in person.

FWIW - I have it from a reputable source that the free-speech organization FIRE is in talks to team up with the national offices of fraternities and sororities to sue Bloomsburg for their ban on Greek Life. That's another headache for Bloom's president.

[complaint_hopeful]

GREEK RUINS: FIRE calls on Bloomsburg to restore 17 Greek chapters disbanded without due process (thefire.org)

[IUPNation]

There are already talks to have the state bail out construction debt. If they extinguished the debt and could get some sort of funding increase - either the Nelly Bly scholarships or an appropriations increase - that may be enough to go back to the original sustainability plans or at the very least stave off integration for a few years. To me its a fair ask since the state's lax governance & oversight allowed for this to happen.

Is the Angelodome paid off yet?

[complaint_hopeful]

No...it's probably got about 10 years of payments left. Maybe more.

[boatcapt]

True but very unlikely. It takes a full blown resolution in the PA General Assembly. The economic impact is very real and the legislators surrounding these schools know it. Being a PA legislator is a nice gravy train - they can't stop a big employer leaving with just a vote - so a vote for losing a major employer in their district would be a kiss of death even for a "why is my tax money paying for someone else's kids" state rep.

There are many "levels" between were the triad schools precieve themselves to be and actual closure. For example, one of the schools could shed its brick and mortar presence and become a completely virtual campus...still technically open but drastically different than they are now AND light years from were they were 10+ years ago.

[complaint_hopeful]

There are many "levels" between were the triad schools precieve themselves to be and actual closure. For example, one of the schools could shed its brick and mortar presence and become a completely virtual campus...still technically open but drastically different than they are now AND light years from were they were 10+ years ago.

That's where debt comes in though. The debt needs paid off to close a campus.

The whole 'become an online school' kind of gets thrown around a lot. PASSHE does it too. Like you don't just take physical classes online. You have to totally redesign the content and build an efficient system for online delivery. You probably need to structure your org differently too. That's how like a SNHU is successful.

But, in general...it gets simplified down to make this class an online class. You can do it, but it won't be high quality. To be high quality at online requires a lot of work and change.

And I'd venture to say that a lot of the students that complain about online are taking classes that didn't put in the work to redevelop it to work online.

[Fightingscot82]

There are many "levels" between were the triad schools precieve themselves to be and actual closure. For example, one of the schools could shed its brick and mortar presence and become a completely virtual campus...still technically open but drastically different than they are now AND light years from were they were 10+ years ago.

Everyone offers this, but...

1) What happens to the thousands of students who commute from home to that campus every day? They could go online, but...

2) All six of these schools are in rural somewhat remote areas. Pennsylvania has such bad access to high speed internet (necessary for online education). What if that improves? Well...

3) 75-90% of the students at these schools are traditional age. Yes that demographic is declining but its still the bulk of the students attending. There is not one case study of an online university or online program successfully enrolling traditional aged students.

The plan fails to fix the financial problem and it fails to fix the enrollment problem.

[iupgroundhog]

Everyone offers this, but...

1) What happens to the thousands of students who commute from home to that campus every day? They could go online, but...

2) All six of these schools are in rural somewhat remote areas. Pennsylvania has such bad access to high speed internet (necessary for online education). What if that improves? Well...

3) 75-90% of the students at these schools are traditional age. Yes that demographic is declining but its still the bulk of the students attending. There is not one case study of an online university or online program successfully enrolling traditional aged students.

The plan fails to fix the financial problem and it fails to fix the enrollment problem.

I'm not necessarily into the nuts and bolts as much as you guys are; however, I had a thought. It seems to me that at least 90% of the actual integration could be accomplished without combining the schools into 1 entity (with 1 accreditation, athletics program, administration, etc.)

It's the 1 entity part where this all gets into trouble. Do you need to have a President/Provost, etc. to maintain accreditation at the individual schools? I don't know. But they can implement virtually all they are trying to implement on an individual school level without making it a unified entity. I'm sure of that.

In fact, they already have the plan laid out. Just don't make it one school (which would actually save money initially).

[Fightingscot82]

I'm not necessarily into the nuts and bolts as much as you guys are; however, I had a thought. It seems to me that at least 90% of the actual integration could be accomplished without combining the schools into 1 entity (with 1 accreditation, athletics program, administration, etc.)

It's the 1 entity part where this all gets into trouble. Do you need to have a President/Provost, etc. to maintain accreditation at the individual schools? I don't know. But they can implement virtually all they are trying to implement on an individual school level without making it a unified entity. I'm sure of that.

In fact, they already have the plan laid out. Just don't make it one school (which would actually save money initially).

They must have separate sets of administration with some degree of autonomy to maintain their own independent accreditation. That's why they reversed course and named hub campuses. Its also why the Penn State and Pitt campuses rarely show up in college rankings.

[iupgroundhog]

They must have separate sets of administration with some degree of autonomy to maintain their own independent accreditation. That's why they reversed course and named hub campuses. Its also why the Penn State and Pitt campuses rarely show up in college rankings.

Yeah, I was afraid you'd focus on the admin question. My main question still stands. Can't the bulk of the plan be accomplished without making it into a single entity?

What I'm thinking about still includes all of the personnel reduction, academic program array changes, everything. Just don't make it into 1 entity. I think that could be done.

[Fightingscot82]

Yeah, I was afraid you'd focus on the admin question. My main question still stands. Can't the bulk of the plan be accomplished without making it into a single entity?

What parts? Merging the entities included merging the personnel and services too. The only things not merged were physical campuses and athletics.

[iupgroundhog]

What parts? Merging the entities included merging the personnel and services too. The only things not merged were physical campuses and athletics.

I think they could do that. For example, as you have mentioned several times Cheyney farms out a lot of admin/purchasing, etc. to WCU. I have to think it could be done.

I don't think it has to be one school.

[complaint_hopeful]

I'm not necessarily into the nuts and bolts as much as you guys are; however, I had a thought. It seems to me that at least 90% of the actual integration could be accomplished without combining the schools into 1 entity (with 1 accreditation, athletics program, administration, etc.)

It's the 1 entity part where this all gets into trouble. Do you need to have a President/Provost, etc. to maintain accreditation at the individual schools? I don't know. But they can implement virtually all they are trying to implement on an individual school level without making it a unified entity. I'm sure of that.

In fact, they already have the plan laid out. Just don't make it one school (which would actually save money initially).

Right! And I've had similar discussions with some people. We don't need 1 entity. We need more sharing among schools...and yes maybe that's 1 President for 2 schools, etc. And share classes and programs.

If someone calls campus A and wants to join a program not offered, send them to campus B or let them take it online.

[Fightingscot82]

I think they could do that. For example, as you have mentioned several times Cheyney farms out a lot of admin/purchasing, etc. to WCU. I have to think it could be done.

I don't think it has to be one school.

Oh I agree. The original sustainability plans with financial cushion provided by Recovery Act funds and state bailout of construction debt could be enough. The original sustainability plans already called for merging of services such as HR, business operations, IT, etc.

[complaint_hopeful]

They must have separate sets of administration with some degree of autonomy to maintain their own independent accreditation. That's why they reversed course and named hub campuses. Its also why the Penn State and Pitt campuses rarely show up in college rankings.

So how is Clarions Pres Edinboro's Pres now? And Blooms President is also Lock Haven's?