PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Bart]

If I have the time and can find this document I will read it. For now, I stand by my previous post. I believe if I have the time to do it, which I probably don't, I could pick apart the viewpoints of The Press-Enterprise. I think it a very biased accounting. "We knew this going in" also reinforces the idea that there should have been more calls to stop it, and there weren't. "Sour grapes" is not a phrase I use too often but it seems appropriate to use.

Believe me, the Press-Enterprise is no friend of Bloomsburg University and are biased against the Bloom U. The amount of debt for each school was per student $1,527 at Bloom, $1,806 at Lock Haven, and $5,307 at Mansfield tells the tale. Mansfield has $110 million dollar debt due to 5 dormitories built in 2016; they were at 2,000 students, now at 1,300. Bloom and LHU share that debt now...it's on the books.

[iupgroundhog]

LCCC has several branch campuses, including 2 in Northumberland County: Shamokin and Watsontown. They have campuses in Lackawanna and Columbia Counties, and a few more.

Can those be considered "branch campuses?" I've seen satellites of community colleges that were a room.

My point was that the NE quadrant of PA is underserved by the community college system. I think that, looking ahead, that will benefit CU because CU can help fill that gap.

[iupgroundhog]

Believe me, the Press-Enterprise is no friend of Bloomsburg University and are biased against the Bloom U. The amount of debt for each school was per student $1,527 at Bloom, $1,806 at Lock Haven, and $5,307 at Mansfield tells the tale. Mansfield has $110 million dollar debt due to 5 dormitories built in 2016; they were at 2,000 students, now at 1,300. Bloom and LHU share that debt now...it's on the books.

That may be true but what are you going to do about it. As you say, it was 2016, before CU came to be. Everybody knew this.

There are a lot of things that I don't know. How that capital debt is dealt with is one of them. Is the debt held by Commonwealth University of Pennsylvania, PASSHE, or the state of Pennsylvania? Will students at CU be hurt financially by the debt in the form of higher tuition? I really don't know how servicing that debt works.

[Bart]

That may be true but what are you going to do about it. As you say, it was 2016, before CU came to be. Everybody knew this.

There are a lot of things that I don't know. How that capital debt is dealt with is one of them. Is the debt held by Commonwealth University of Pennsylvania, PASSHE, or the state of Pennsylvania? Will students at CU be hurt financially by the debt in the form of higher tuition? I really don't know how servicing that debt works.

Problems loom without "system or legislative intervention" according to the report. Already, need base scholarships will be reduced by 1.5 million this fall, athletic and other waivers by $76,000, and also reduce out of state scholarships. They also lost $300,000 in Board of Governor scholarships because of the court decision on affirmative action. There are other cuts I could list, such as cutting programs, classes, and jobs to save $2 million, and and another $3 million with retirements.

[iupgroundhog]

Problems loom without "system or legislative intervention" according to the report. Already, need base scholarships will be reduced by 1.5 million this fall, athletic and other waivers by $76,000, and also reduce out of state scholarships. They also lost $300,000 in Board of Governor scholarships because of the court decision on affirmative action. There are other cuts I could list, such as cutting programs, classes, and jobs to save $2 million, and and another $3 million with retirements.

Who wrote the report? Regardless, it seems like it is open to misinterpretation. Thanks for making me aware of the situation.

[Bart]

Who wrote the report? Regardless, it seems like it is open to misinterpretation. Thanks for making me aware of the situation.

It was written by Tim Shuey, a CU chief financial officer who resigned earlier this year. It is hard to misinterpret when buildings on all campuses are being torn down to help balance the budget, while Mansfied's new dorms remain empty with $110 million dollar bill.

[IUPNation]

No, it's not. In terms of geography, it covers an entire quadrant of the state. In terms of accessibility, it's not overkill. Also, that entire quadrant of the state has only 1 community college, Luzerne County CC, outside of Wilkes-Barre, so that is not accessible for people living outside of a small radius around Wilkes-Barre.

Then turn Mansfield into a community college. The fact there is really only one state system school located in the 5 county Philadelphia region is crazy. I mean yes there are 2 but Cheyney isn’t geared to serve a whole region. Yet there are three in a sparsely populated section and we wonder why so many of them are struggling.

[iupgroundhog]

It was written by Tim Shuey, a CU chief financial officer who resigned earlier this year. It is hard to misinterpret when buildings on all campuses are being torn down to help balance the budget, while Mansfied's new dorms remain empty with $110 million dollar bill.

No, I get that but there are different ways to write the report, depending on one's perspective. Why did Tim Shuey resign?

[Bart]

No, I get that but there are different ways to write the report, depending on one's perspective. Why did Tim Shuey resign?

Seventeen days after the annual high-risk report, President Bashar Hanna sent on Jan. 4, 2024, via email to the faculty and staff that Tim Shuey, the previous holder of this position, has resigned.
The email states, “He has relinquished all duties associated with the role of the position, effective immediately.”
https://buvoice.com/6416/news/cu-def...er-in-the-red/

What is your concern? CU is taking on water because SSHE tried to bail out Mansfield.

[Fightingscot82]

It was written by Tim Shuey, a CU chief financial officer who resigned earlier this year. It is hard to misinterpret when buildings on all campuses are being torn down to help balance the budget, while Mansfied's new dorms remain empty with $110 million dollar bill.

I'm curious how much is still owed on the residence halls at the consolidated campuses. We're a little over 10 years in on what were likely 30 year bonds on most of these projects.

[Fightingscot82]

Then turn Mansfield into a community college. The fact there is really only one state system school located in the 5 county Philadelphia region is crazy. I mean yes there are 2 but Cheyney isn’t geared to serve a whole region. Yet there are three in a sparsely populated section and we wonder why so many of them are struggling.

There is not an economy or sufficient population to sustain Mansfield as a community college. I'm curious what the population ages 18-40 where Mansfield is the closest college campus (2 year or 4 year). Mansfield is ideally located to be another Thaddeus Stevens but the faithful won't go for it. Mansfield has a historically well-regarded music program. Its not as large as West Chester but some consider it to be the standard bearer of the system. That's a weak argument to keep it a failing 4 year.

After arguing with a friend working at one of the Penn West campuses I'm starting to think that the only path to viability is to break up majors by campus and have some specialization. Yeah, the buildings are designed for comprehensive universities but I just don't see 3 generalized campuses as sustainable. Make each campus attractive for a certain audience and lean into that.

[ironmaniup]

There is not an economy or sufficient population to sustain Mansfield as a community college. I'm curious what the population ages 18-40 where Mansfield is the closest college campus (2 year or 4 year). Mansfield is ideally located to be another Thaddeus Stevens but the faithful won't go for it. Mansfield has a historically well-regarded music program. Its not as large as West Chester but some consider it to be the standard bearer of the system. That's a weak argument to keep it a failing 4 year.

After arguing with a friend working at one of the Penn West campuses I'm starting to think that the only path to viability is to break up majors by campus and have some specialization. Yeah, the buildings are designed for comprehensive universities but I just don't see 3 generalized campuses as sustainable. Make each campus attractive for a certain audience and lean into that.

They should have specialized the Campuses 15 years ago. Now they have hollowed out all of the good programs they had back then. It would take 5-10 years to build any reputation in a field to the point where students would travel to go there. If you had to go to Clarion for nursing, for instance, many Edinboro and certainly Cal students ( and IUP and Rock students, if they are included in the specialization -and they'd have to be for it to have a chance) would go elsewhere. That's not mentioning the food fight over which programs go where. Avoiding that was why they didn't do it when it was an obviously good idea.

[Fightingscot82]

They should have specialized the Campuses 15 years ago. Now they have hollowed out all of the good programs they had back then. It would take 5-10 years to build any reputation in a field to the point where students would travel to go there. If you had to go to Clarion for nursing, for instance, many Edinboro and certainly Cal students ( and IUP and Rock students, if they are included in the specialization -and they'd have to be for it to have a chance) would go elsewhere. That's not mentioning the food fight over which programs go where. Avoiding that was why they didn't do it when it was an obviously good idea.

I don't think that at this stage ALL campuses need to be specialized, just within the merged triads. There's no benefit to be a limping version of a traditional campus. By specializing its more likely they'll have in person classes with humans they'll see outside of class and with professors they'll see on campus. Right now 3 or 4 classes are online taught by people at another campus and with students they'll never meet. Its gotta be such a hollow experience. Now if you want that truly comprehensive university experience with nearly full in person classes regardless of subject, you'll need to choose IUP or Slippery Rock or Shippensburg or East Stroudsburg or whatever.

[Bart]

I'm curious how much is still owed on the residence halls at the consolidated campuses. We're a little over 10 years in on what were likely 30 year bonds on most of these projects.

I read right now Mansfield's debt is $110 million or $5,387 per student, Lock Haven $49 million or $1,806 per student, Bloomsburg $120 million or $1,527 per student; Bloomsburg's debt is spread across more students 7,179, Lock Haven had 2,616, and Mansfield 1,313. Guessing it is harder to pay up with less students.

The debt is 4% related to education or a shortfall in general revenue. The rest is from costs related to student housing, recreational or other auxiliary needs.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I don't think that at this stage ALL campuses need to be specialized, just within the merged triads. There's no benefit to be a limping version of a traditional campus. By specializing its more likely they'll have in person classes with humans they'll see outside of class and with professors they'll see on campus. Right now 3 or 4 classes are online taught by people at another campus and with students they'll never meet. Its gotta be such a hollow experience. Now if you want that truly comprehensive university experience with nearly full in person classes regardless of subject, you'll need to choose IUP or Slippery Rock or Shippensburg or East Stroudsburg or whatever.

It's making an already socially (very) awkward generation of students even worse. You can go to school, live in a dorm and never leave the building. I can't fathom living on campus and taking all online classes.

I sit in on tons of interviews a year -- mostly college grads between 1-5 years removed. As a whole, they are awful. It's like talking to a door.

Times have sure changed.