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Originally posted by The P in IUP View Post
Grade inflation is because of a few factors
1)A lot of high schools that used run a grading scale of A= 100-93, B- 92-85, C-84-74 ect have moved to the 90A, 80B 70C model.
2) Back in the day schools were limited in the amount of AP course (bonus gpa points) they could offer/ students could actually take. Now with virtual options and travel kids can access more AP courses then in years past. Same things with college level/dual credit courses. Heck is some high schools are able to come to agreements that allow kids to earn their associates degree along with their high school diploma. Those courses typically carry the bonus gpa point that drives up the gpa.
3) Helicopter parents will make a teachers life miserable if little Johnny gets a B and Admin have so many other issues to deal with they aren’t providing the support to back up, so the teachers are just giving in. I’m in my late 30s now and growing up if my grades were bad my parents said it was my fault not the teachers, now a days it reversed and parents blame teachers over their kids.
4) On the other end due to ties to federal funding states in order to get their graduation rates up so schools are doing all sorts of crazy things to keep kids from failing which as others have mentioned giving a kid that has never turned anything a 50% then making them use a platform online for a few hours where they google the answers and get a passing grade.
There are other factors but those would be the main ones.
At Ship, I was in the top five percent of my graduating class with a 3.4 average, which is a basically a B-plus average. On the basis of that, I was admitted to Northwestern for graduate school. Now we have entire athletic teams at the school that carry a 3.5 average. I'm not throwing dirt at the dedication of those kids, and I think we do have some impressive young students at Ship, but really?
As you point out, a lot of parents talk the talk about a good education these days, but if their kids actually are exposed to the type of academic rigor it takes to get there, they'll have a fit. It doesn't help that most kids spend hours on the interweb, almost all have jobs (have to pay for those cars) and have gotten used to getting by with the minimum in many cases. I considered it a light night when I had less than 90 minutes of homework in high school — see much of that today?
There's a reason most of the doctors at my local hospital are either immigrants from Asia or have parents from there. Those folks still hit the books. There's nothing mysterious about it.
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Originally posted by IUPNation View Post
Emporium!
Where I briefly met a girl at IUP who was from there who told me they never saw a black person until they came to IUP.
Needlessly to say I wasn't impressed but because of that statement...I have remembered that town actually still exists.
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Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
That number even seems low. If you can spell your name and your check clears ... right now that should be the only requirement.
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Originally posted by IUPNation View Post
Admitting 70-80 percent of applicants...isn't that what a public university should be doing? Isn't that really the mission of the State System? To be where the tax paying public can send their kids for a college education?
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Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post
Those are interesting numbers and there is nothing wrong with open admissions. Leading state systems e.g. California, Texas, have had a relatively open admissions system for many decades, going all the way back to the baby boomer surge in public higher education in the '60's. Most of our schools have always had a relatively open admissions policy so it's not that much different. I will say that when I went to IUP way back when, they had a low acceptance rate for a public school, although they were able to finagle the numbers by excluding students accepted at the branch campuses and provisionally accepted students (Summer/Jans. in IUP lingo). But that is ancient history. For many years, WCU was also able to finagle their numbers, I believe, by excluding students from underperforming schools, etc. As I understand it, those types of loopholes have been closed when it comes to reporting.
In general, the difference above between Commonwealth's 97% and Ship and WCU's 88% isn't statistically significant. It's all open admissions, basically. SRU's # is interesting. If accurate, kudos to them for achieving that level of competitiveness in the process. There are other factors that can skew the results, e.g. number of part-time commuters who might legitimately not factor into the calculation.
Ultimately, I'm fine with the open admissions. I agree with what others have said regarding fulfilling the central educational mission of the system.
I could have chosen to go to Punxsutawney or Kittanning if I wanted to do a normal fall/spring freshman year. Thank God I did not do that. If I was dropped off in Punxsy I would have transferred to Millersville...where I did get accepted to start in the fall.
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Originally posted by The P in IUP View Post
Grade inflation is because of a few factors
1)A lot of high schools that used run a grading scale of A= 100-93, B- 92-85, C-84-74 ect have moved to the 90A, 80B 70C model.
2) Back in the day schools were limited in the amount of AP course (bonus gpa points) they could offer/ students could actually take. Now with virtual options and travel kids can access more AP courses then in years past. Same things with college level/dual credit courses. Heck is some high schools are able to come to agreements that allow kids to earn their associates degree along with their high school diploma. Those courses typically carry the bonus gpa point that drives up the gpa.
3) Helicopter parents will make a teachers life miserable if little Johnny gets a B and Admin have so many other issues to deal with they aren’t providing the support to back up, so the teachers are just giving in. I’m in my late 30s now and growing up if my grades were bad my parents said it was my fault not the teachers, now a days it reversed and parents blame teachers over their kids.
4) On the other end due to ties to federal funding states in order to get their graduation rates up so schools are doing all sorts of crazy things to keep kids from failing which as others have mentioned giving a kid that has never turned anything a 50% then making them use a platform online for a few hours where they google the answers and get a passing grade.
There are other factors but those would be the main ones.
The same parents who want books banned and think they are educational experts on what and how things should be taught.
The Karens should just teach their own kids then...they seem to be "doing their research" on everything. Keep little Kevin and Kaitlin at home...and when they can't get a job because they are too stupid to do anything...it's all on the Karens to pay for their upkeep as useless adults.
My mom never blamed a teacher. It was always my fault.Last edited by IUPNation; 09-27-2023, 10:54 AM.
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Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post
Emporia is in Kansas.
Where I briefly met a girl at IUP who was from there who told me they never saw a black person until they came to IUP.
Needlessly to say I wasn't impressed but because of that statement...I have remembered that town actually still exists.
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Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post
Those are interesting numbers and there is nothing wrong with open admissions. Leading state systems e.g. California, Texas, have had a relatively open admissions system for many decades, going all the way back to the baby boomer surge in public higher education in the '60's. Most of our schools have always had a relatively open admissions policy so it's not that much different. I will say that when I went to IUP way back when, they had a low acceptance rate for a public school, although they were able to finagle the numbers by excluding students accepted at the branch campuses and provisionally accepted students (Summer/Jans. in IUP lingo). But that is ancient history. For many years, WCU was also able to finagle their numbers, I believe, by excluding students from underperforming schools, etc. As I understand it, those types of loopholes have been closed when it comes to reporting.
In general, the difference above between Commonwealth's 97% and Ship and WCU's 88% isn't statistically significant. It's all open admissions, basically. SRU's # is interesting. If accurate, kudos to them for achieving that level of competitiveness in the process. There are other factors that can skew the results, e.g. number of part-time commuters who might legitimately not factor into the calculation.
Ultimately, I'm fine with the open admissions. I agree with what others have said regarding fulfilling the central educational mission of the system.
There are respectable schools in D2 and in D1 that have the same admissions profile - or are open admission. But those schools get buried in many rankings that consider acceptance rate, something only weighted to favor the truly elite schools. Most of us know how difficult it is to get accepted to Penn State's main campus, but even they have a 58% acceptance rate.
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Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
What (in the academic world) is the theory behind these GPA's soaring?
Is it as simple as school districts now frown upon giving out bad grades? A close friend of mine is a high school math teacher and he's pretty much told he's not allowed to fail anybody. Hell, they give attendance points (in high school) just to make sure everybody passes.
1)A lot of high schools that used run a grading scale of A= 100-93, B- 92-85, C-84-74 ect have moved to the 90A, 80B 70C model.
2) Back in the day schools were limited in the amount of AP course (bonus gpa points) they could offer/ students could actually take. Now with virtual options and travel kids can access more AP courses then in years past. Same things with college level/dual credit courses. Heck is some high schools are able to come to agreements that allow kids to earn their associates degree along with their high school diploma. Those courses typically carry the bonus gpa point that drives up the gpa.
3) Helicopter parents will make a teachers life miserable if little Johnny gets a B and Admin have so many other issues to deal with they aren’t providing the support to back up, so the teachers are just giving in. I’m in my late 30s now and growing up if my grades were bad my parents said it was my fault not the teachers, now a days it reversed and parents blame teachers over their kids.
4) On the other end due to ties to federal funding states in order to get their graduation rates up so schools are doing all sorts of crazy things to keep kids from failing which as others have mentioned giving a kid that has never turned anything a 50% then making them use a platform online for a few hours where they google the answers and get a passing grade.
There are other factors but those would be the main ones.
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Originally posted by IUPNation View Post
That should be the whole point of of state owned, state funded institutions of higher education.
It should be where people can go to get the education/training they need. It shouldn't cost a fortune.
Then we would no longer hear how Cletus Jr. in Emporia, PA has been left behind in this world by the big bad meanies along the 95 corridor.
He can go to college and learn something.
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Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
That number even seems low. If you can spell your name and your check clears ... right now that should be the only requirement.
It should be where people can go to get the education/training they need. It shouldn't cost a fortune.
Then we would no longer hear how Cletus Jr. in Emporia, PA has been left behind in this world by the big bad meanies along the 95 corridor.
He can go to college and learn something.
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
A regional public should indeed have higher acceptance rates. Admissions is a mess right now because we've thrown out the reliability of SAT/ACT but GPAs are so inflated. There are far more students graduating with GPAs above 3.0 than before that its hard to not accept more. But we're stuck with some harsh realities: we're in the bottom half of the higher ed hierarchy, we generally don't offer programs that attract or require the top students, we don't have financial aid to throw at the top students, and we're in a region with evaporating high school classes.
Commonwealth: 97%
Kutztown: 96%
East Stroudsburg: 94%
PennWest: 94%
Indiana: 92%
Millersville: 92%
Shippensburg: 88%
West Chester: 88%
Slippery Rock: 74%
Cheyney is open enrollment with proof of high school completion and submission of FAFSA.
Source: US Department of Education data warehouse
***For those who aren't regular consumers of higher ed stats, they are rarely how they read at face value. Acceptance rate is based on your applicant pool. I always say, if 10 supermodels asked someone out, they'd probably find a way to make it work with all 10, and have a 100% acceptance rate. Admits are up as high school GPAs soar. The other stat that isn't what it seems is graduation rate, but that's another topic.***
In general, the difference above between Commonwealth's 97% and Ship and WCU's 88% isn't statistically significant. It's all open admissions, basically. SRU's # is interesting. If accurate, kudos to them for achieving that level of competitiveness in the process. There are other factors that can skew the results, e.g. number of part-time commuters who might legitimately not factor into the calculation.
Ultimately, I'm fine with the open admissions. I agree with what others have said regarding fulfilling the central educational mission of the system.
Leave a comment:
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Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
What (in the academic world) is the theory behind these GPA's soaring?
Is it as simple as school districts now frown upon giving out bad grades? A close friend of mine is a high school math teacher and he's pretty much told he's not allowed to fail anybody. Hell, they give attendance points (in high school) just to make sure everybody passes.
Leave a comment:
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
A regional public should indeed have higher acceptance rates. Admissions is a mess right now because we've thrown out the reliability of SAT/ACT but GPAs are so inflated. There are far more students graduating with GPAs above 3.0 than before that its hard to not accept more. But we're stuck with some harsh realities: we're in the bottom half of the higher ed hierarchy, we generally don't offer programs that attract or require the top students, we don't have financial aid to throw at the top students, and we're in a region with evaporating high school classes.
Commonwealth: 97%
Kutztown: 96%
East Stroudsburg: 94%
PennWest: 94%
Indiana: 92%
Millersville: 92%
Shippensburg: 88%
West Chester: 88%
Slippery Rock: 74%
Cheyney is open enrollment with proof of high school completion and submission of FAFSA.
Source: US Department of Education data warehouse
***For those who aren't regular consumers of higher ed stats, they are rarely how they read at face value. Acceptance rate is based on your applicant pool. I always say, if 10 supermodels asked someone out, they'd probably find a way to make it work with all 10, and have a 100% acceptance rate. Admits are up as high school GPAs soar. The other stat that isn't what it seems is graduation rate, but that's another topic.***
What (in the academic world) is the theory behind these GPA's soaring?
Is it as simple as school districts now frown upon giving out bad grades? A close friend of mine is a high school math teacher and he's pretty much told he's not allowed to fail anybody. Hell, they give attendance points (in high school) just to make sure everybody passes.
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