OT: NFL

[IUP24]

I think you misinterpreted my point. I was fine with Pickett but I felt like the media and some others gave cheap shot excuses as to why he wasn't a first rounder.

Apologies for misinterpreting.

I think your point there is fair. Overall, plenty of guys become first rounders who aren't. Happens all the time, specifically at QB. JJ McCarthy has shown me absolutely nothing in his time at Michigan that tells me he will be a dynamic franchise elevating starting QB. There are Vegas oddsmakers who think he will go top 5.

[Chuck Norris]

I think Pickett's great last year at Pitt made people struggle to come up with reasons to avoid him, thus his age, hand size, etc.

it feels like the reasons people had not to reach for him in the first round turned out to be fairly prophetic. He even threw in a poor attitude, which no one was accusing him of having.

[Fightingscot82]

it feels like the reasons people had not to reach for him in the first round turned out to be fairly prophetic. He even threw in a poor attitude, which no one was accusing him of having.

That really surprised me because I don't recall ever hearing anything about his attitude when he was at Pitt.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

That really surprised me because I don't recall ever hearing anything about his attitude when he was at Pitt.

I'm not saying he did or didn't have any issues at Pitt, but, Pitt is notorious for shielding its athletes from the media (as are most P5 programs).

In college they can still somewhat protect what gets out (other than anything with criminal charges).

[Chuck Norris]

That really surprised me because I don't recall ever hearing anything about his attitude when he was at Pitt.

Me neither. He was pretty much universally praised for all the intangible stuff. The Steelers aren’t blameless here, but refusing to dress for the Seattle game and answering a question about whether you learned anything watching from the sidelines while injured with a “No” in full boo boo face mode are bad looks. And that’s just stuff we know about.

[IUP24]

Me neither. He was pretty much universally praised for all the intangible stuff. The Steelers aren’t blameless here, but refusing to dress for the Seattle game and answering a question about whether you learned anything watching from the sidelines while injured with a “No” in full boo boo face mode are bad looks. And that’s just stuff we know about.

The "did you learn anything watching from the sidelines..." situation is a bad look. But I think you are looking at this very pointedly and not seeing the full context - or you've reached your own conclusion on how things unfolded. And that's fine. People can believe the version of the events they choose to believe. Regarding all that's unfolded since Seattle, there's another side of that conversation too.

It's being pieced together that Gerry Dulac's "source" is Art Rooney II. Dejan wrote a story a few days ago that he had multiple players on the team confirm that Pickett was never medically cleared to be available to play in the football game. Tomlin wanted Pickett to dress as the 3rd string emergency QB. Pickett didn't feel comfortable doing so with 4 broken ribs. So Dulac's story isn't wrong about Pickett not wanting to dress, but there's greater context to it. It had nothing to do with him being the backup behind Mason. Art 2 was supposedly unhappy Pickett didn't want to dress when not medically cleared to play because Roethlisberer did that for so long, so Art 2 soured on Pickett. If that's accurate, then it makes Art 2 - and Tomlin for that matter - both look like a real POS. That would fit everyone's narrative they like to push about an owner not giving a sh!t about players and just wanting to make money off of their "labor."

Others began reporting over the weekend that Pickett asked to be moved because he no longer trusted the organization. He was initially told that it would be an open QB competition - but he was told it would be him and Mason Rudolph. Rudolph and his agent recently were returning to the Steelers to accept a contract that was offered to him. They arrived and the Steelers informed them that they were rescinding their offer. Rudolph informed Pickett of that, and days later Pickett learns via social media that the team is signing Wilson. Tomlin then informed Pickett that there would be no competition and he Wilson would be the starter. He felt duped and lied to by the organization and head coach, so he wanted a fresh start. There are national people reporting that sequence of events.

I'm not defending Pickett by any means. I'm just presenting the full context. He's not without fault in all of this. If he plays at the level of an NFL QB, we aren't sitting here having this discussion. He was horrific playing QB during the 2023 season. But the character assassinations are pretty out of control. This is surprisingly very good civil discussion here. It's not for many, unfortunately.

[IUP24]

I'm not saying he did or didn't have any issues at Pitt, but, Pitt is notorious for shielding its athletes from the media (as are most P5 programs).

In college they can still somewhat protect what gets out (other than anything with criminal charges).

You added the caveat that most P5 programs are good at that, but what is the context of "shielding its athletes from the media?"

I guess my question is, what are the examples or data points you are referencing that make you believe that outside of Narduzzi not letting players talk to the media in open scrums during the Penn State games? There are requirements they have to meet regarding player availability before and after games, which they meet. Heck, Pickett was on a weekly radio spot his last year.

We could be looking at or interpreting two different things, however.

[Chuck Norris]

The "did you learn anything watching from the sidelines..." situation is a bad look. But I think you are looking at this very pointedly and not seeing the full context - or you've reached your own conclusion on how things unfolded. And that's fine. People can believe the version of the events they choose to believe. Regarding all that's unfolded since Seattle, there's another side of that conversation too.

It's being pieced together that Gerry Dulac's "source" is Art Rooney II. Dejan wrote a story a few days ago that he had multiple players on the team confirm that Pickett was never medically cleared to be available to play in the football game. Tomlin wanted Pickett to dress as the 3rd string emergency QB. Pickett didn't feel comfortable doing so with 4 broken ribs. So Dulac's story isn't wrong about Pickett not wanting to dress, but there's greater context to it. It had nothing to do with him being the backup behind Mason. Art 2 was supposedly unhappy Pickett didn't want to dress when not medically cleared to play because Roethlisberer did that for so long, so Art 2 soured on Pickett. If that's accurate, then it makes Art 2 - and Tomlin for that matter - both look like a real POS. That would fit everyone's narrative they like to push about an owner not giving a sh!t about players and just wanting to make money off of their "labor."

Others began reporting over the weekend that Pickett asked to be moved because he no longer trusted the organization. He was initially told that it would be an open QB competition - but he was told it would be him and Mason Rudolph. Rudolph and his agent recently were returning to the Steelers to accept a contract that was offered to him. They arrived and the Steelers informed them that they were rescinding their offer. Rudolph informed Pickett of that, and days later Pickett learns via social media that the team is signing Wilson. Tomlin then informed Pickett that there would be no competition and he Wilson would be the starter. He felt duped and lied to by the organization and head coach, so he wanted a fresh start. There are national people reporting that sequence of events.

I'm not defending Pickett by any means. I'm just presenting the full context. He's not without fault in all of this. If he plays at the level of an NFL QB, we aren't sitting here having this discussion. He was horrific playing QB during the 2023 season. But the character assassinations are pretty out of control. This is surprisingly very good civil discussion here. It's not for many, unfortunately.

Nah, I get it. But honestly, even if every word of it is true, there’s nothing in that story that I can’t see happening in every NFL facility all the time. Guys get jerked around. Guys get the side eye if they won’t play hurt. And good on him for standing up for himself, but given how he’s played to this point I doubt there’s a team in the league that wouldn’t have shown him the door in these circumstances.

[IUP24]

Nah, I get it. But honestly, even if every word of it is true, there’s nothing in that story that I can’t see happening in every NFL facility all the time. Guys get jerked around. Guys get the side eye if they won’t play hurt. And good on him for standing up for himself, but given how he’s played to this point I doubt there’s a team in the league that wouldn’t have shown him the door in these circumstances.

If an owner and a head coach show a player a door because they won't play when they aren't medically cleared by a doctor to do so that's a pretty bad look. That's probably a worse look than a 2nd year player saying "no" when asked if they've learned anything watching from the sidelines.

And if that's one of the dominoes that fell regarding Pickett's departure from the Steelers, I'm not sure any of us would not have wanted a different situation to work in either.

Pickett played poorly. These things aren't personal. It's all supposed to be business. And if it's business for the Steelers, it's business for Pickett too.

[TheBigCat2192]

Pickett was the same age exiting college as every other year senior who stays for a 5th year. If he had an early birthday, he had an early birthday, but he had no additional games under his belt. In his true freshman year, he took snaps in 4 games. In today's game, he would have still been eligible for a redshirt. So I'm not sure his age has anything to do with anything. Sean Clifford played more college football games at Penn State and was older than Pickett leaving college. There were others too. But that seemingly never got talked about. I get one was a first round pick and the others weren't however.

Generally, quarterbacks play their way into the first round in their last year of college football. That's not unique to Pickett. Sure, it was a bad class. But your general point is that one high level of college football was a red flag. You can/should say that about a ton of guys. Most 1st round quarterbacks end up being busts.

I'm not defending Pickett. I think he was horrific at the NFL level. I'm trying to explain that there's more context than what you are just saying. You can say the exact same thing you wrote in your post about plenty of guys over the years.

Pickett came into the league at 24 when most guys do so at 22 or 23. Just as a fun example, Pickett is 2 months older than the guy he might be backing up in Philly but has 2 fewer seasons of NFL experience. He was old for a draftee and no amount of would’ve/could’ve about redshirting is going to change that. As for the idea that most QBs play their way into the first round in their final year I’d need to see some serious numbers. Usually guys who ball out as sophomores or juniors tend to be the ones with draft hype. Not that no one ever surprises late but the tippy-top of prospects separate themselves early in their careers. In general age; especially relative to competition is a big filter for pro athletic success in multiple sports (football, basketball, and baseball at least). Guys who don’t perform well until they’re older than the competition have historically made poor pro prospects because their late spike in performance is often a sign they’re beating up on guys less developed/experienced than them more so than a sign they’ve truly improved their game.

[IUP24]

Pickett came into the league at 24 when most guys do so at 22 or 23. Just as a fun example, Pickett is 2 months older than the guy he might be backing up in Philly but has 2 fewer seasons of NFL experience. He was old for a draftee and no amount of would’ve/could’ve about redshirting is going to change that. As for the idea that most QBs play their way into the first round in their final year I’d need to see some serious numbers. Usually guys who ball out as sophomores or juniors tend to be the ones with draft hype. Not that no one ever surprises late but the tippy-top of prospects separate themselves early in their careers. In general age; especially relative to competition is a big filter for pro athletic success in multiple sports (football, basketball, and baseball at least). Guys who don’t perform well until they’re older than the competition have historically made poor pro prospects because their late spike in performance is often a sign they’re beating up on guys less developed/experienced than them more so than a sign they’ve truly improved their game.

You and I aren’t aligned - and won’t be - on this topic. Our assessments and views on it are different. That’s okay. Agree to disagree.

Pickett wasn’t the first 5th year senior quarterback to enter the NFL draft. He won’t be the last either. In a previous era, a lot of those guys existed. We are splitting hairs regarding months in a calendar year for his birthday falling in the summer of his academic year and draft class. In general, him turning 24 4-6 months earlier than guys in the same academic year is hardly a reason to be down on a player. But I digress. If the same guy exists that is 21, you probably lean towards taking the younger guy, for sure.

Regarding what you would call a “late bloomer,” I think anymore players just leave when it’s opportune to do so. You see so few guys sticking around until they are seniors anymore because they just strike when the iron is hot and bolt for the league. If you closely follow major college football, you can also recognize that more quarterbacks are starting for programs earlier in their college careers than ever before. If coaches don’t do that, they would transfer as soon as they could. Thus, the players have the necessary film and they bolt earlier than they did previously. To your point, Pickett didn’t have that tape earlier in his Pitt career. Did that mean Kenny was horrible, or were those Pitt teams just not very good?

You still have to play and put your work on film, but generally, the guys at the high end schools tend to excel and excel quickly because they are surrounded by so much sheer talent around them at every position. But if you play at an Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia, etc., you have NFL guys at every position. I’m not saying it’s “easy,” but you are generally able to do your job more effectively at the QB position because of it. But I think we’d agree, those guys aren’t guarantees either. Most of those guys fail too.

My worry about Pickett as a Steelers fan from day one wasn’t that he couldn’t be a good NFL QB. It was that he wouldn’t be a good NFL QB on a team that had other pieces missing. That has nothing to do with him being a few months older than somebody else. Generally speaking, talent is relative to the level you are playing at. It took being surrounded by exceptional talent on a Pitt team that was undoubtedly a top end team in 2021 to have the type of year he did. That tells me he isn’t the type of guy that’s going to elevate people around him, but can be good when he’s in the right environment, surrounded by the right people. The Steelers were just a bad landing spot. It was a putrid OL. The WRs didn’t move the needle (don’t care what anyone thought of Johnson or thinks of Pickens - those guys aren’t “elite” by definition). His tight end can’t block and is hardly used in their offense. And their running game tended to be pretty inconsistent behind a bad OL. It just wasn’t the right spot for a guy that perhaps needed a Brock Purdy-like situation to walk into. That’s not defense of Pickett. That’s just objectively looking at the situation and story arc.

[IUPNation]

He was a star QB on two Yinzerburgh teams for a few years and got done dirty by the Stillers front office and the fans turned on him like Yinzers usually do to QB's not performing like Bradshaw or Bloated Bluto.

Fresh start on your favorite team back near home......he needs to just be quiet now.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

He was a star QB on two Yinzerburgh teams for a few years and got done dirty by the Stillers front office and the fans turned on him like Yinzers usually do to QB's not performing like Bradshaw or Bloated Bluto.

Fresh start on your favorite team back near home......he needs to just be quiet now.

Oh he'll be quiet for sure. The clipboard holder doesn't say much. His wife will get more press in Philly than he will. I think she wanted to be the next Brittany Mahomes.

[Ram040506]

Pickett came into the league at 24 when most guys do so at 22 or 23. Just as a fun example, Pickett is 2 months older than the guy he might be backing up in Philly but has 2 fewer seasons of NFL experience. He was old for a draftee and no amount of would’ve/could’ve about redshirting is going to change that. As for the idea that most QBs play their way into the first round in their final year I’d need to see some serious numbers. Usually guys who ball out as sophomores or juniors tend to be the ones with draft hype. Not that no one ever surprises late but the tippy-top of prospects separate themselves early in their careers. In general age; especially relative to competition is a big filter for pro athletic success in multiple sports (football, basketball, and baseball at least). Guys who don’t perform well until they’re older than the competition have historically made poor pro prospects because their late spike in performance is often a sign they’re beating up on guys less developed/experienced than them more so than a sign they’ve truly improved their game.

Kyler Murray played sparingly at Texas AM then was the back up to Baker Mayfield at Oklahoma for a season. Then he balled out and won the heisman as a junior, to be the #1 pick and has had an up and down career so far. Jury still out I guess on his career.

Joe Burrow came out of nowhere his senior year at LSU, he was older as well like Pickett. Think most would say he's one of the top 5 qbs in the world now.

Dwayne Haskins sat for 2 seasons at Ohio State, had one pretty outstanding season and was a first round pick when many thought he should have stayed in school.

Mitchell Trubisky sat for 2 seasons at UNC, then started his junior year and had a great season that made him a #2 pick in the draft.

Brandon Weeden had a big senior season to catapult him into first round discussion, eventually being taken in the first round at #22. His senior season and rise as an older prospect is somewhat similar to Pickett.

Cam Newton, 1 good season at Auburn and ends up as the top pick in the draft.

[iupgroundhog]

Will Steeler fans be able to let it go and move on? I have to think Pickett already has.