PSAC 2023 (Week 1) Non-Conference Games

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Wholistically though, outside of Lock Haven (and the PSAC), it's not the same conversation. They have 2,400 students. Perhaps those 100 bodies do mean something. For a school like Akron (and to be clear, I'm just using them as an example because I know the response will be, "well they just built a new football stadium!"), where they typically have an enrollment between 12,000-14,000 do those 100 bodies mean as much? They earn the university a check every year by getting their heads bashed in at State College or Columbus, but for the sake of the conversation, I am going to say that at some point for a number of those types of schools, somebody will eventually answer that question with a resounding, "no."

I forget the exact week but typically around mid-October (or perhaps a little later) the MAC starts whoring its teams out to play Tuesday and/or Wednesday night games -- just for the sake of giving ESPN some filler. It always baffles me to look in the stands at those mid-week games. They are almost all 85% empty. I attended one at Ohio U several years ago. I was in the proximity overnight for work and thought why not. If there were 4,000 people there I'd have been shocked.

I went to Akron's new stadium several years ago when Pitt played a (very rare) road game (at a MAC school). Beautiful stadium. I wish Pitt had an exact duplicate of it. I know Akron was really excited to host a P5 team. It unfortunately was near a monsoon the entire day and the gate was terrible.

I just don't see schools dropping football left and right. To be fair, the D2 vs D1 conversation is completely different. We don't see bowl money or TV deals down here in the bus leagues.

I don't remember the details well enough but obviously Cheyney and Mansfield dropped the sport -- when both of them could have clearly used the extra 100 male bodies paying tuition.

Hard to say what the future holds in the PSAC. Personally, I think the 'triads' are a ticking time bomb -- both doomed from the start. My guess is they eventually go down to one football program each.

[Fightingscot82]

Mansfield dropped NCAA football and had athletics start a glorified club team. Yeah, they play Ivies and service academies but people in Tioga County don't necessarily identify with or embrace Yalies even if they're playing the beloved hometown Mounties LOL. Cheyney dropped all NCAA programs and kept M/W basketball and women's volleyball - playing an independent schedule without any sort of classification or league membership. They played everything from NCCSA to D3 to D2 but were able to keep their annual game vs Lincoln.

Both moves were shortsighted. Mansfield struggles to maintain a roster and a coaching staff. It seems that every year they're searching for 2 or 3 coaches. The alumni didn't line up to support Mansfield any better than the bottom third of the conference but they sure as heck don't support sprite football or twink football or whatever its called. Cheyney's dropping of athletics was a REALLY dumb financial mood because athletes were a good chunk of their enrollment and it made their need to be financially solvent even more difficult. But it was a drastic move that allowed their president to show the state and corporate partners that they were making big changes (sound familiar?). Mansfield football struggled because of facilities, funding, and location. Every once in a while they got a stud - remember Pooh Bear MacNeil? Cheyney suffered from all of those things but especially scholarship funding and the school's inability to attract quality students who could afford to pay what grants & scholarships didn't cover. Their retention rate is abysmal because they're recruiting some of the poorest and least academically prepared high school students. Cheyney needs to figure out how to price themselves that a full Pell eligible student can go for free between Pell & PHEAA grants. Debt free college is debt free college.

[Ship69]

The recruiting for the new guy at LH is not local, though. He's reaching far and wide.

Well, given his location and their football history, he doesn't have much choice. Doubt you're going to recruit a juggernaut from the Clinton County area these days.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

The recruiting for the new guy at LH is not local, though. He's reaching far and wide.

Recruiting some solid freshmen has never been their issue. That's one of the positives of having to sign 35+ of them yearly.

Seeing their top players return the following season is the main problem.

Right now it's get in there, get some film ... and get the hell out of town.

It's a very difficult job -- on many levels.

[cwfenn]

Seems like Kutztown is trying some innovative recruiting methods this year:

https://www.wfmz.com/news/area/berks...8db1262cf.html

[ctrabs74]

I, too, think the decision to drop a football program goes beyond the pure accounting math. For example, what are the factors which led Mansfield and Cheyney to shut their intercollegiate teams down?

In the case of LH, I don't think having a perennially bad team shuts it down or it would have already happened. Plus, it would be a Commobnwealth U. decision now.

Cheyney's enrollment dropped precipitously to the point where they were on the verge of closing, as I recall. I can't speak to Mansfield, but I'd suspect the falling enrollment there might have played a factor as well.

[IUPNation]

Mansfield dropped NCAA football and had athletics start a glorified club team. Yeah, they play Ivies and service academies but people in Tioga County don't necessarily identify with or embrace Yalies even if they're playing the beloved hometown Mounties LOL. Cheyney dropped all NCAA programs and kept M/W basketball and women's volleyball - playing an independent schedule without any sort of classification or league membership. They played everything from NCCSA to D3 to D2 but were able to keep their annual game vs Lincoln.

Both moves were shortsighted. Mansfield struggles to maintain a roster and a coaching staff. It seems that every year they're searching for 2 or 3 coaches. The alumni didn't line up to support Mansfield any better than the bottom third of the conference but they sure as heck don't support sprite football or twink football or whatever it’s and Nansfield called. Cheyney's dropping of athletics was a REALLY dumb financial mood because athletes were a good chunk of their enrollment and it made their need to be financially solvent even more difficult. But it was a drastic move that allowed their president to show the state and corporate partners that they were making big changes (sound familiar?). Mansfield football struggled because of facilities, funding, and location. Every once in a while they got a stud - remember Pooh Bear MacNeil? Cheyney suffered from all of those things but especially scholarship funding and the school's inability to attract quality students who could afford to pay what grants & scholarships didn't cover. Their retention rate is abysmal because they're recruiting some of the poorest and least academically prepared high school students. Cheyney needs to figure out how to price themselves that a full Pell eligible student can go for free between Pell & PHEAA grants. Debt free college is debt free college.

Twink Foosball…Good One!!


If it wasn’t for Mansfield and Cheyney, some coaches in the past in the East wouldn't have as pretty a resume.

Im not naming names.

:-)

[Ship69]

Twink Foosball…Good One!!


If it wasn’t for Mansfield and Cheyney, some coaches in the past in the East wouldn't have as pretty a resume.

Im not naming names.

:-)

Well, don't forget that Lock Haven was in the Western Division for quite a few years, and they were hardly a ball of fire.

[Ship69]

Mansfield dropped NCAA football and had athletics start a glorified club team. Yeah, they play Ivies and service academies but people in Tioga County don't necessarily identify with or embrace Yalies even if they're playing the beloved hometown Mounties LOL. Cheyney dropped all NCAA programs and kept M/W basketball and women's volleyball - playing an independent schedule without any sort of classification or league membership. They played everything from NCCSA to D3 to D2 but were able to keep their annual game vs Lincoln.

Both moves were shortsighted. Mansfield struggles to maintain a roster and a coaching staff. It seems that every year they're searching for 2 or 3 coaches. The alumni didn't line up to support Mansfield any better than the bottom third of the conference but they sure as heck don't support sprite football or twink football or whatever its called. Cheyney's dropping of athletics was a REALLY dumb financial mood because athletes were a good chunk of their enrollment and it made their need to be financially solvent even more difficult. But it was a drastic move that allowed their president to show the state and corporate partners that they were making big changes (sound familiar?). Mansfield football struggled because of facilities, funding, and location. Every once in a while they got a stud - remember Pooh Bear MacNeil? Cheyney suffered from all of those things but especially scholarship funding and the school's inability to attract quality students who could afford to pay what grants & scholarships didn't cover. Their retention rate is abysmal because they're recruiting some of the poorest and least academically prepared high school students. Cheyney needs to figure out how to price themselves that a full Pell eligible student can go for free between Pell & PHEAA grants. Debt free college is debt free college.

It's isn't only athletes who cover the cost of sports programs. Most schools use a chunk of student activity fees for sports. When enrollment drops to the extent that Cheyney's did, that's pulling out quite a bit of money.

[Fightingscot82]

It's isn't only athletes who cover the cost of sports programs. Most schools use a chunk of student activity fees for sports. When enrollment drops to the extent that Cheyney's did, that's pulling out quite a bit of money.

Yep. The athletes are also funding athletics. There are very few activity fee waivers - and in PASSHE true athletic scholarships are real money so they don't affect revenue.

[WarriorVoice]

Well, don't forget that Lock Haven was in the Western Division for quite a few years, and they were hardly a ball of fire.

IUP offers a Masters Degree in Selective Memory?

[IUPNation]

Well, don't forget that Lock Haven was in the Western Division for quite a few years, and they were hardly a ball of fire.

Yeah but Frank beat everyone. That’s why he was punished.

[IUPNation]

IUP offers a Masters Degree in Selective Memory?

Again Frank beat everyone.

IUP fans can also subtract out the almost unbeaten records of former East coaches vs Mansfield and Cheyney to get their real resume.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Again Frank beat everyone.

IUP fans can also subtract out the almost unbeaten records of former East coaches vs Mansfield and Cheyney to get their real resume.

I can imagine some of the stat lines hung on those teams, too.

[Ship69]

I can imagine some of the stat lines hung on those teams, too.

Seton Hill has finally improved some the past couple of years. Their first few years in the league were certainly stat builders for the West, plus Ship when we got to play them.