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  • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    Spread the word about WLU Men's Basketball!

    The folks in the Wheeling/Steubenville/Pittsburgh area don't realize don't realize how fortunate they are to have an extraordinarily high level of basketball being played in their backyard by athletes who are actually serious students, as evidenced by many statistics. If I were a coach or a parent who had an aspiring basketball team/player, I would take my team/child to the ASRC as much as I could to watch how WLU plays the game. A few statistics to support my assertion:

    Scoring: > 100 points per game - # 1 in D1 and D2 - They have averaged over 100 pts a game for something like 12 out of the last 14 years.
    Points per possession: > 1.25, - #1 in D1 and D2
    Team 3 point shooting - >42% - #1 in D1 and D2
    Winning % over the last decade - 90% - #1 in D1 and D2
    Effective Field Goal % (Accounts for higher value of 3 point shots ) - 5 players over 60% (Steph Curry averages 60%, albeit from greater distance).
    Team free throw percentage well over 70%
    At least one Academic All American (only 15 chosen nationwide) for seven consecutive years.
    National Player of the Year 3 out of last 8 years
    Low turnovers per game
    Intense pressure, trapping defense on makes and misses.
    Great team ball movement on offense and unselfish passing where a player passes up a good shot to give a teammate a great shot.
    A team that goes 10 deep - if you are good enough to play, you will play significant minutes - 9 players average over 10 minutes per game as WLU uses a two platoon system.
    Some of their players have had the opportunity to play professionally outside USA after graduation.
    In 2018, they had one All-American and one freshman All-American!

    What you won't see at WLU.
    - 6-9 guys who can do amazing dunks but for whom every foul shot is an adventure
    - Boring NBA-like dribble drive, where one or two players monopolize the ball on offense (e.g., Houston Rockets and the James Harden offense)
    - Poor team passing skills
    - Selfish play
    - Exorbitant ticket and concession prices

    Given the quality of basketball, it should take a season ticket to even a get a seat in the ASRC for all games! It is approximately $70 for something like 15 games, which is less than $5 per game. They don't gouge you on the concession prices, so it an affordable family event.

    Spread the word!

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    • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

      FYI official press release of final 4 players in 2019-2020 recruiting class
      https://hilltoppersports.com/news/20...er-roster.aspx

      Comment


      • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

        Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
        FYI official press release of final 4 players in 2019-2020 recruiting class
        https://hilltoppersports.com/news/20...er-roster.aspx
        I like Butler ... saw him many times at Latrobe games. He's a WL type. His grandfather attends a lot of IUP games.

        He's nowhere near 6'5" but ... none of them are. He needs a solid year in the weightroom. I'd guess he is about 165 lbs. Max.

        Get that year done and he'll be a big player down there.

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        • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

          Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
          I like Butler ... saw him many times at Latrobe games. He's a WL type. His grandfather attends a lot of IUP games.

          He's nowhere near 6'5" but ... none of them are. He needs a solid year in the weightroom. I'd guess he is about 165 lbs. Max.

          Get that year done and he'll be a big player down there.
          The two transfers had been previously reported but I was not expecting any additional HS recruits! AND they seem to be the typical high quality guys that Ben is becoming known for. These are great late recruiting season additions!

          Comment


          • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

            Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
            I like Butler ... saw him many times at Latrobe games. He's a WL type. His grandfather attends a lot of IUP games.

            He's nowhere near 6'5" but ... none of them are. He needs a solid year in the weightroom. I'd guess he is about 165 lbs. Max.

            Get that year done and he'll be a big player down there.
            Maybe he went thru a growth spurt since u saw him. Spoke with him on jul 22 and he is clearly taller than I. I am 6-3. He did not look skinny. Maybe 180-185. Great shooter. His post footwork is incredible.

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            • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

              Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
              Maybe he went thru a growth spurt since u saw him. Spoke with him on jul 22 and he is clearly taller than I. I am 6-3. He did not look skinny. Maybe 180-185. Great shooter. His post footwork is incredible.
              IUP allegedly blew off Dustin Sleva coming out of high school. He was 6'4" ...

              Three years later he was 6'10". He wanted to come here and Joe had no interest. True story.

              I can only imagine him and Cobo as teammates on the floor together. Wow.

              Comment


              • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

                Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
                IUP allegedly blew off Dustin Sleva coming out of high school. He was 6'4" ...

                Three years later he was 6'10". He wanted to come here and Joe had no interest. True story.

                I can only imagine him and Cobo as teammates on the floor together. Wow.
                IMHO, that would have brought a national championship to IUP!

                Comment


                • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

                  Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
                  The two transfers had been previously reported but I was not expecting any additional HS recruits! AND they seem to be the typical high quality guys that Ben is becoming known for. These are great late recruiting season additions!
                  Huh? They announced the Butler signing last October. He's been signed at WL for almost a year.

                  Comment


                  • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

                    Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
                    Maybe he went thru a growth spurt since u saw him. Spoke with him on jul 22 and he is clearly taller than I. I am 6-3. He did not look skinny. Maybe 180-185. Great shooter. His post footwork is incredible.
                    Latrobe has become a stellar high school basketball program. That is where Shippensburg signed Jake Biss.

                    Biss, my opinion, may be the PSAC EAST POY this year as a junior.

                    I know WL signed Butler early. I wonder what other offers he had. Fite has been dominating the WPIAL lately.

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                    • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

                      Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
                      Huh? They announced the Butler signing last October. He's been signed at WL for almost a year.
                      Quinn Hiles and Mason Shifflet. While we've known about Shifflet for about a month, this is the first mention I can recall about Hiles signing with the Toppers.

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                      • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

                        Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
                        Quinn Hiles and Mason Shifflet. While we've known about Shifflet for about a month, this is the first mention I can recall about Hiles signing with the Toppers.
                        WLU is loading up on complete players, who are great shooters. That is not surprising. What is surprising is that some of these recruits are elite level shooters who can also drive to the basket; they average at 40% from three and they are shooting from NBA range and beyond. Shiflett hit 46% from three against elite competition. Other examples: Hazelbaker - 38%, Conley and Butler deadly from 3.

                        Some of WLU's opponents shoot in the high 30% from three, but often their tiptoes are right on the line and flaws in their shot mechanics will not maintain this percentage from greater distance.

                        With the 3 pt line moving back to 22+ft next year, this will make WLU even more dangerous as it will spread the floor even more, opening up the middle of the court.

                        For those long time WLU fans, think of some of these recruits as super-sized versions of Tim Hausfeld, with more athletic ability.

                        Comment


                        • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

                          Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
                          WLU is loading up on complete players, who are great shooters. That is not surprising. What is surprising is that some of these recruits are elite level shooters who can also drive to the basket; they average at 40% from three and they are shooting from NBA range and beyond. Shiflett hit 46% from three against elite competition. Other examples: Hazelbaker - 38%, Conley and Butler deadly from 3.

                          Some of WLU's opponents shoot in the high 30% from three, but often their tiptoes are right on the line and flaws in their shot mechanics will not maintain this percentage from greater distance.

                          With the 3 pt line moving back to 22+ft next year, this will make WLU even more dangerous as it will spread the floor even more, opening up the middle of the court.

                          For those long time WLU fans, think of some of these recruits as super-sized versions of Tim Hausfeld, with more athletic ability.
                          I think the 3 PT line move will have a bigger impact than people realize...particularly in DII. Heck, even for a good 3 PT shooting team like WLU it will probably impact their overall shooting % a bit...Can't imagine what it will do to marginal shooting teams. I would think the effect for these teams will be 1. Fewer 3 PT tries per game and 2. Perhaps a 10% point drop in the make/miss rate. Combined this could result in double digit reductions in PPG which will have a negative effect on W/L.

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                          • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

                            Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
                            I think the 3 PT line move will have a bigger impact than people realize...particularly in DII. Heck, even for a good 3 PT shooting team like WLU it will probably impact their overall shooting % a bit...Can't imagine what it will do to marginal shooting teams. I would think the effect for these teams will be 1. Fewer 3 PT tries per game and 2. Perhaps a 10% point drop in the make/miss rate. Combined this could result in double digit reductions in PPG which will have a negative effect on W/L.
                            When i watch the videos of last year's games, many of WL 3 pt shots were behind the new 3 point line. So I am more optimistic that our opponent's 3 point shooting will decline more than WL.
                            Question: Are they still leaving room for the corner 3, which I think was closer than than the top of the key three point distance?

                            Also, if it does decline, it may be due to normal statistical variation due to player turnover. Last year's team was the best 3 point shooting WL team in at least 8 years! However, we lost several elite shooters in Meininger, French and Hill with Meininger and French often shooting from NBA 3 range.

                            Here are some stats comparing past WL teams in FG % 3PT % and FT %


                            Year ending Team FG % Team 3 pt % Free Throw %
                            2019 49.9% 42.5% 77.7%
                            2018 45.3% 37.8% 76.8%
                            2017 48.7% 35.9% 72.1%
                            2016 49.8% 40.9% 73.4%
                            2015 52.0% 41.3% 70.9%
                            2014 49.2% 39.7% 75.1%
                            2013 51.8% 41.2% 76.4%
                            2012 50.7% 41.1% 79.9%
                            Median 49.9% 41.00% 75.75%

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                            • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

                              The move back for NCAA men is one foot to 20 ft 9 in. For marginal 3 point shooters, one foot is a pretty big adjustment and will probably convince many of them not to take the shot. For true 3 pt snipers, I don't think it will ultimately be a huge deal. Does set up a one year aberration were everyone to include upperclassmen and incoming freshmen will be adjusting to the change at the same time...May have situations were a true freshman is able to adjust quicker than an experienced college player and might "steal" minutes from him!

                              IF WLU's shooters can make the adjustment and shoot at or near their previous % and IF WLU's opponents take fewer 3 pt shots because they can't adjust, that COULD increase WLU's MOV. Lot's of if's and could's there but I think it is more likely tan the opposite happening (WLU shooters being unable to adjust and shooting fewer 3 pointers).

                              Comment


                              • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

                                Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
                                The move back for NCAA men is one foot to 20 ft 9 in. For marginal 3 point shooters, one foot is a pretty big adjustment and will probably convince many of them not to take the shot. For true 3 pt snipers, I don't think it will ultimately be a huge deal. Does set up a one year aberration were everyone to include upperclassmen and incoming freshmen will be adjusting to the change at the same time...May have situations were a true freshman is able to adjust quicker than an experienced college player and might "steal" minutes from him!

                                IF WLU's shooters can make the adjustment and shoot at or near their previous % and IF WLU's opponents take fewer 3 pt shots because they can't adjust, that COULD increase WLU's MOV. Lot's of if's and could's there but I think it is more likely tan the opposite happening (WLU shooters being unable to adjust and shooting fewer 3 pointers).
                                Might have misunderstood your post.
                                My understanding is that the current NCAA men's 3 pt line is 20.75 ft (20 ft 9 inches). Next year in D2 (this year in D1), the line moves back to 22.15 ft (22 ft 1 3/4 inches) or an increase of 1.4 ft (16 3/4 inches).
                                Unless I am mistaken, the 22.15 ft wil be the same in the corners as on the rest of the court, just as it was previously.
                                Only the NBA has a "short corner" Three at 22 ft, which is about a foot shorter than the rest of the arc.

                                Based on watching video, folks who often shot beyond the new arc this past year and should not be affected significantly are: Bolon, Yoakum, Shifflett, Butler, Conley, Boswell, Hile, and Dyer ( when he does shoot, it is often from greater distance).
                                Don't know about the others.
                                Last edited by Columbuseer; 08-02-2019, 03:42 PM.

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