West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I wish him well. Avg 19 min, 7 pts, only 31% from three and 36% fg assist to turnover under 2.0. Only started 4 games out of 16.
big declines in stats going to community college.
he had a bright future at wl. Hope he has a successful academic career and is happy at Cleveland state.

funny how things work out. Got a better offensive player in Robinson iii. Both he and Malik are much better defensively. They have much stronger bodies.

That Tallahassee program has become like a hub for guys just like him. They have a stacked roster every year. Many go from Tallahassee to major D1 programs.

One of the teams in Pittsburgh is similar (CCBC). Most years CCBC would easily compete in the Atlantic Region. CCBC scrimmaged three PSAC West middle pack schools this year and I've heard beat two of them up.

The more local (Pa, DC, MD, VA) JUCO circuit is loaded for this coming recruiting season. Lasy year it was a bit down.

Harford, for example, has 3-4 guys our schools will be lining up to sign. That's the same program that has produced Micah Till, Brandon Spain, Tevin Hanner, Martin Kelly (Concord), etc. It's also where IUP snagged Dom Keyes, although that one ultimately didn't work out. Joe of course redshirted him and then he allegedly got in trouble.

This year Harford has Fairmont State PG cast-off Christain Sweazie and a very coveted 6'5" shooting guard.

Players land there for a variety of reasons. Some academics, some looking for a better opportunity.

If you look around, the Atlantic Region is loaded with guys from JUCO schools.

[Columbuseer]

That Tallahassee program has become like a hub for guys just like him. They have a stacked roster every year. Many go from Tallahassee to major D1 programs.

One of the teams in Pittsburgh is similar (CCBC). Most years CCBC would easily compete in the Atlantic Region. CCBC scrimmaged three PSAC West middle pack schools this year and I've heard beat two of them up.

The more local (Pa, DC, MD, VA) JUCO circuit is loaded for this coming recruiting season. Lasy year it was a bit down.

Harford, for example, has 3-4 guys our schools will be lining up to sign. That's the same program that has produced Micah Till, Brandon Spain, Tevin Hanner, Martin Kelly (Concord), etc. It's also where IUP snagged Dom Keyes, although that one ultimately didn't work out. Joe of course redshirted him and then he allegedly got in trouble.

This year Harford has Fairmont State PG cast-off Christain Sweazie and a very coveted 6'5" shooting guard.

Players land there for a variety of reasons. Some academics, some looking for a better opportunity.

If you look around, the Atlantic Region is loaded with guys from JUCO schools.

Good info. Thanks. The risk yahel faces at d1 is his physical stature. Guys at d1 are often bigger and stronger. But his skills could result in a role at a low level d1 school like CSU. Hopefully he will develop his defense this year.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Per VC, the biblical figure down in Florida snagged a power forward from Ohio.

[boatcapt]

Some scheduling comparisons. In Crutch's final five years of scheduling (this includes Ben's first year of 17-18), the winning % of the OOC teams on WLU's schedule was:

17-18 .330
16-17 .383
15-16 .304
14-15 .456
13-14 .396

Over that five year period, WLU played DII teams that finished the season at or above .500 on four occasions:

17-18 Kings 19-11
16-17 Lemoyne 22-7
15-16 NONE
14-15 Fayet State 15-13 and Holly Family 22-8
13-14 NONE

In Ben's two seasons being exclusively responsible for the scheduling, the winning % for his OOC opponents is:

19-20 .579 (thus far)
18-19 .555

Over those two seasons he has played SIX teams that are at or above .500:

19-20 Shaw 5-5 and Damien 11-2
18-19 Kutztown 16-14, WCU 22-9, Salem 17-9, King 15-14

[Scrub]

I like it, Boat. Bringin' the data! Your point is a good one. Up above in the discussion, I was paying more attention to the period just before that (10-11, 11-12, etc.) when it seemed like Crutch was more willing to challenge himself. But there's no arguing with the data you provided about the last 5 years. It does appear that Crutch & Howlett differ in their philosophy on the OOC schedule. Neither guy won the championship on the Hilltop, so it's tough to say which philosophy works better in March (which both philosophies are geared for). I would say Howlett's team overachieved expectations in March last year, so that's a good sign. This year is off to a rough start to say the least. Guess we'll see.

[boatcapt]

I know we are working on scant data, but for comparison, here are WLU's season results between "scheduling tough" as Ben does and "scheduling easy" as Crutch favored:

2019-20, OOC % .579, W/L 7-3, ?? seed, ?? results
2018-19, OOC % .555, W/L 28-4, #2 seed, Lost in Regional Final
2017-18, OOC % .330, W/L 26-3, #4 seed, Lost in first round
2016-17, OOC % .383, W/L 28-3, #3 seed, Lost in first round
2015-16, OOC % .304, W/L 27-3, #2 seed, Regional Champion
2014-15, OOC % .456, W/L 27-2, #1 seed, Lost in Regional Final
2013-14, OOC % .396, W/L 26-3, #2 seed, Regional Champion

IMHO, for WLU to have a chance at getting a high seed, they effectively have to run the table and win the MEC tourney...Or perhaps have one more loss along the way. That is a TALL order going 20-1 "down the stretch" in the always tough MEC!!

[Columbuseer]

I like it, Boat. Bringin' the data! Your point is a good one. Up above in the discussion, I was paying more attention to the period just before that (10-11, 11-12, etc.) when it seemed like Crutch was more willing to challenge himself. But there's no arguing with the data you provided about the last 5 years. It does appear that Crutch & Howlett differ in their philosophy on the OOC schedule. Neither guy won the championship on the Hilltop, so it's tough to say which philosophy works better in March (which both philosophies are geared for). I would say Howlett's team overachieved expectations in March last year, so that's a good sign. This year is off to a rough start to say the least. Guess we'll see.

[Columbuseer]

Per VC, the biblical figure down in Florida snagged a power forward from Ohio.

A PF who shoots 36% from three and had 3.75 GPA. Had some interest from Penn. I suspect he is another do it all player like 6-10 Shane hunter this year.

Sunahara was injured against ave Maria. Probably a factor in close loss to Rollins. Matchup nightmare.

[boatcapt]

I would agree with your supposition that Crutch scheduled easy because he couldn't find difficult opponents if it wasn't apparently so easy for Ben to find difficult opponents. I believe there are SOME difficult teams that are not willing to play WLU, but not EVERY difficult opponent then or now is unwilling.

IMHO, the reason Crutch scheduled like he did (does) is because he's looking for certain "outcomes" on the season. He understands that Rule Number 1 is "just win baby" and losing to a tough opponent early in the year does a lot more harm to a team come playoff selection time than any perceived "battle toughness" it may provide when in the playoffs at the end of the season. Not saying Crutch NEVER scheduled a random 'tough game," but as Scrub pointed out, on the occasions when it did happen, it was typically around/over Christmas...AFTER he had used the early season to whip the players into shape and build team chemistry.

I would be hard pressed to disagree with the wisdom of what Crutch does and how he schedules...both at WLU and now at Nova. Clearly Ben sees things differently and perhaps this year is just an aberration...but I would note that we are sitting at 7-3 and unranked for the first time in a LOONNNGGGG time. Ben has plenty of games left this year to prove the wisdom of how he does things over how his mentor Crutch did them...but if you were a betting man, who would you put money on being the "right" way of doing things??

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I would agree with your supposition that Crutch scheduled easy because he couldn't find difficult opponents if it wasn't apparently so easy for Ben to find difficult opponents. I believe there are SOME difficult teams that are not willing to play WLU, but not EVERY difficult opponent then or now is unwilling.

IMHO, the reason Crutch scheduled like he did (does) is because he's looking for certain "outcomes" on the season. He understands that Rule Number 1 is "just win baby" and losing to a tough opponent early in the year does a lot more harm to a team come playoff selection time than any perceived "battle toughness" it may provide when in the playoffs at the end of the season. Not saying Crutch NEVER scheduled a random 'tough game," but as Scrub pointed out, on the occasions when it did happen, it was typically around/over Christmas...AFTER he had used the early season to whip the players into shape and build team chemistry.

I would be hard pressed to disagree with the wisdom of what Crutch does and how he schedules...both at WLU and now at Nova. Clearly Ben sees things differently and perhaps this year is just an aberration...but I would note that we are sitting at 7-3 and unranked for the first time in a LOONNNGGGG time. Ben has plenty of games left this year to prove the wisdom of how he does things over how his mentor Crutch did them...but if you were a betting man, who would you put money on being the "right" way of doing things??

Isn't the argument, however, the 2017-18 season when you guys had a 26-2 record but got seeded 4th due to the awful non-conference schedule?

Aside from Daemen, Ben isn't exactly playing a world-beater schedule here so I'm not following your point. The rest: Shaw (4-5), Mansfield (2-6), Salem (4-6), Ohio Valley (3-8), Ohio Dominican (4-8). Aside from Daemen, I'm not sure how he could have scheduled any easier?

Losing at home to a 4-7 (then 1-6) West Virginia Wesleyan is far more hurtful than losing to Daemen.

[Columbuseer]

[Columbuseer]

[boatcapt]

Isn't the argument, however, the 2017-18 season when you guys had a 26-2 record but got seeded 4th due to the awful non-conference schedule?

Aside from Daemen, Ben isn't exactly playing a world-beater schedule here so I'm not following your point. The rest: Shaw (4-5), Mansfield (2-6), Salem (4-6), Ohio Valley (3-8), Ohio Dominican (4-8). Aside from Daemen, I'm not sure how he could have scheduled any easier?

Losing at home to a 4-7 (then 1-6) West Virginia Wesleyan is far more hurtful than losing to Daemen.

That was the "argument" that some made. If I remember correctly, the major proponents of having WLU play a tougher early season schedule were fans of OTHER teams. Always struck me as odd that fans of another regional power would want us to derive what they foisted as the great post season benefit of playing tougher teams. Always felt that it was more a desire to have us lose additional games which would positively effect THEIR ability to host regionals.

If I remember correctly, the often spouted lines were:

1. WLU needs to play a tougher OOC schedule.
2. WLU needs to play early games on the road.

Folks on the board did point to the 17-18 seeding and say "SEE...YOU DON'T PLAY TOUGH LIKE US AND THIS IS WHAT YOU GET." Of course, they convienantly ignore 14, 15, 16 and 17 when we garnered top 3 seedings (and two Regional Championships) playing an easy OOC schedule.

[boatcapt]

No disrespect to our opponents, but our losses were more due to wl not consistently playing their style. Imho some reasons:
- takes a while to unlearn how u have played for years and replace it with wl stylesome bumps in the road.

And THAT is exactly what WLU used to use the early part of their schedule each year to do! Under Crutch, the early part of the season was typically treated as an extended practice were new players "unlearned" what they had done previously, the team as a whole learned what each players strengths, weaknesses and tendencies were and Crutch learned how best to manage the team to get maximum results.

I too feel they will be better in March...Question is, will there BE a March??

We've almost used up our quota of "bumps" and we are only 10 games into the season.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

That was the "argument" that some made. If I remember correctly, the major proponents of having WLU play a tougher early season schedule were fans of OTHER teams. Always struck me as odd that fans of another regional power would want us to derive what they foisted as the great post season benefit of playing tougher teams. Always felt that it was more a desire to have us lose additional games which would positively effect THEIR ability to host regionals.

If I remember correctly, the often spouted lines were:

1. WLU needs to play a tougher OOC schedule.
2. WLU needs to play early games on the road.

Folks on the board did point to the 17-18 seeding and say "SEE...YOU DON'T PLAY TOUGH LIKE US AND THIS IS WHAT YOU GET." Of course, they convienantly ignore 14, 15, 16 and 17 when we garnered top 3 seedings (and two Regional Championships) playing an easy OOC schedule.

But it did cost you that year and the committee gave you a four seed due to it. That's when Ben said in the media he wanted to beef it up. Your coach said that ... nobody else's.

I still think losing to Daemen made you better than beating Pitt-Greensburg by 80 points.

I also highly doubt Ben felt peer pressure from a stupid message board.

To your last paragraph ... you had better teams those years. It's as simple as that.

Your arguments make you sound like WL is terrified to play anybody with a pulse in the non-conference.

Daemen right now anyway is just a better team and also has WL kryptonite in that big kid. He's on par with Sleva. Losing to Daemen on the road won't kill you. Losing at home to WVW is a different story.