West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[boatcapt]

I'm shocked that the WVWC loss didn't actually drop the Toppers out of the Top 25 and end the streak. Ashland's bad loss knocked them out. Valdosta lost to then-#25 Florida Southern (not even a bad loss) and that was enough to drop them. This probably goes to show that so much of the poll is political or name-recognition or whatever. WLU & Queens (both typical top-25 "powers") are the only teams to be given "scholarships" into the Top-25 with 2 losses. Everyone else there is either a 1-loss or undefeated team.

IUP continues to play with house money and win--tough stretch coming up though. If, on an off chance, IUP would happen to take two losses during their brutal upcoming stretch, I wonder if their name recognition would be enough to keep them in the poll?

I admit that I'm glad the streak is still alive--it's a really cool little factoid about the team and the program that Crutch built here. But I kinda think this was supposed to be the week they dropped out, regrouped, and began the climb back to the top. We'll see.

Point...WLU's two losses took place with 18 days between them...Valdosta's and Ashland's occurred in the same week and in Ashland's case, they were back to back. I would imagine that losing twice in the same "ranking week" would have more impact on the voters than two losses that occurred over a three week period.

[Scrub]

Point...WLU's two losses took place with 18 days between them...Valdosta's and Ashland's occurred in the same week and in Ashland's case, they were back to back. I would imagine that losing twice in the same "ranking week" would have more impact on the voters than two losses that occurred over a three week period.

That's a fair point. Timing is everything.

[boatcapt]

I would think iup, bellarmine etc would get same consideration. Do u think the fact so many top 25 teams lost to unranked teams this week helped them? Could perhaps their schedule have been tougher than those teams in outside looking in at top 25? I know I am throwing chum in the water when talking about early tough games. Lol

Last time WLU stated a season 6-2 was in the 06-07 season (13 years ago). Hey, but at least we will be "tough" in the NCAA tourney...were ever it is played. And it doesn't get any easier with two loss Charleston and then two loss WV State next up. Real chance we could be 6-4 this time next week. But again, at least we will be stronger in the tourney!!!

[Scrub]

Last time WLU stated a season 6-2 was in the 06-07 season (13 years ago). Hey, but at least we will be "tough" in the NCAA tourney...were ever it is played. And it doesn't get any easier with two loss Charleston and then two loss WV State next up. Real chance we could be 6-4 this time next week. But again, at least we will be stronger in the tourney!!!

And in that 06-07 season, they finished 25-5 and made their first NCAA tournament. Not too shabby for a 6-2 start. ; )

[boatcapt]

And in that 06-07 season, they finished 25-5 and made their first NCAA tournament. Not too shabby for a 6-2 start. ; )

Yep. Lost in the WVIAC tourney to fall from the #1 ranking in the East Region to #2 behind Barton. Wonder if they would have claimed the #1 tourney seed and played at the ARSC had they just won ONE more game early in the regular season??

[Scrub]

Anybody get a chance to watch it? What happened this time? I was unavailable to watch.

[Scrub]

And no, Boat, playing Daemen had nothing to do with these losses. Gotta take care of business in the conference. Crutch picked up losses to the likes of Findlay and Bellarmine over the years in the non-conference. But Crutch's teams tended to take care of business in the conference. I do believe the conference has strengthened and caught up a bit. WLU isn't taking anybody by surprise anymore. But Howlett is going to have to find a formula for getting through the conference. Another tough test with WVSU coming Saturday. Yikes.

[Scrub]

You have to go all the way back to Crutch's first year (04-05) to find the last time WLU has lost three before the calendar turned.

[boatcapt]

This is the risk of "playing tough" OOC. You run the risk of having additional losses. And those losses compound as the year goes by. BEST case scenario is that it ONLY costs you a chance at hosting the Regionals...worst case it costs you a chance to even be in the NCAA tourney.

You know, we all bow at the alter of Crutch and talk about how smart he is as a basketball coach. Yet some seem completely unwilling to accept that maybe he knew what he was doing as far as scheduling goes. Seems like he understood that a win trumps any supposed value a team gets by playing and perhaps losing games against tough opponents early in a nearly five month long basketball season. Now Crutch is doing the same thing with scheduling at a new school and people are casting him as BRILLIANT while the new guy at WLU has bowed to the "experts" that say WLU should schedule tough games at the beginning of the season and we sit with 3 losses for the first time in over 15 years, a very real chance at 4 losses, quite probably the longest string of weeks in the top 25 gone, and danger close to not making the NCAA tourney. All for what?

Seems like once again, we see how much smarter Crutch is than we are.

[Scrub]

EARLY in the Crutch era, he most definitely scheduled cupcakes to get the team rolling. There's no denying that (plenty of the old OU Eastern or PSU Fayette games on those early Crutch-era schedules). But you're conveniently forgetting about the times Crutch got a bit more daring with his OOC schedule as he got more comfortable applying his system. In 08-09, Crutch scheduled a brutal OOC back-to-back with Lynn & Bellarmine (and lost them both). If not for pulling out a double-OT win vs. Pikeville, they would have lost 3 in a row OOC that year. He scheduled a very strong Northern Kentucky team in 10-11. And don't forget about 11-12 when he opened with ESU, Ship, & Findlay (taking a loss to Findlay). Then, followed that up with a Christmas break trip to Florida to play away games in notoriously tough gyms at St. Leo & Eckard. Crutch may have started his run playing PSU Fayette, but in the midst of his "heyday" at WLU, he was regularly mixing good OOC games with bad OOC games. Ohio Valley & Point Park were still regulars on the schedule, but he also mixed in the Findlays, Bellarmines, and St. Leos. Those teams are up there with this year's Daemen. And don't forget Ben scheduled Ohio Valley this year as well. In other words, Ben's schedule this year is eerily similar to Crutch's schedules in his heyday. Just because Crutch managed to pull out tough wins against the likes of St. Leo, Eckard, Northern Kentucky, etc., don't fool yourself into believing he was only scheduling cupcakes.

I repeat--this year's struggle has nothing to do with going to Daemen in November. Crutch succeeded by absolutely owning the conference teams. An OOC loss to a Bellarmine or Findlay didn't hurt him much because he never lost to WVWC or UC in the regular season. Granted, the conference was likely a lot weaker when Crutch was ripping through it, and Ben doesn't have that luxury. But the difference this year isn't that they failed to get an easy win against PSU Fayette in November (the easy win against Ohio Valley is forthcoming--don't worry). It's that they have failed to take care of business against beatable teams in the conference. Period. Forget about the OOC schedule. Howlett has to figure out how to beat the teams that are most familiar with what WLU does (and the degree of difficulty is raised now because he's not taking anyone by surprise anymore).

[Columbuseer]

And no, Boat, playing Daemen had nothing to do with these losses. Gotta take care of business in the conference. Crutch picked up losses to the likes of Findlay and Bellarmine over the years in the non-conference. But Crutch's teams tended to take care of business in the conference. I do believe the conference has strengthened and caught up a bit. WLU isn't taking anybody by surprise anymore. But Howlett is going to have to find a formula for getting through the conference. Another tough test with WVSU coming Saturday. Yikes.

i agree with you.One could argue that playing Daemen kept us in the top 25 with two losses, Had we been 6-2 with losses to wcwc and uc I don't believe we would have stayed in top 25.I did not see the game, so my comments are based on watching the earlier games.

We are vulnerable in the post against big men, especially when WLU is also having an off-shooting night. We also have to reduce the reach-in fouls and improve situational awareness on the part of some players. If our big defenders (Will or Marlon) get in foul trouble, we are vulnerable.because our backup big defenders need more experience to be ready to play against top flight big men.
Every team has vulnerabilities and strengths. Ours is playing bigs with good shooting guards when we are having an off-shooting night or getting in foul trouble at key positions.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I watched the game while sitting at gymnastics for three hours.

I guess I'll start by saying Charleston is a pretty good team. In my opinion, they are an NCAA-caliber team -- or very close to it. That is a very strong defensive team. The guy they had on Bolon all night is a top-notch, shutdown defender. Bolon was visibly frustrated as that game wore on. The announcers called him the best defender in the MEC. They also held WL down to just 14 attempts from deep (they made 7 of them).

As the announcers told us (over and over) Charleston did a great job of keeping the game at their pace.

The blatant difference in the game in my eyes was Charleston just dominated the glass (40-24) and second-chance points (WL had just 3 second-chance points all game). I don't watch WL enough but something is off with this year's press. The games I've watched it's not causing the 'chaos' it has in the the past. Granted, I've only watched the Daemen and Charleston games. Charleston broke it with ease last night as did Daemen.

Keith Williams had a career night (27 points, 9 boards). He was sizzling in the second half. Charleston isn't real deep. They played about 6 guys the bulk of the game. They played their true freshmen big, Denbow, 10 minutes as the 7th man, but he was a disaster last night. His stat line had 2 turnovers and that was it.

I don't understand how Malik McKinney only got 5 minutes last night. I would have put him on Williams -- especially in the second half. I can't see him staying there next year if he's going to be such a bit player.

Boswell and Dyer had a combined 5 points in 55 minutes on the floor. From what I've seen, I don't overly know what Boswell's role is in the offense.

I don't know .. McKinney and Robinson could be a really strong duo playing together. But, that would mean some of the more traditional WL guard types would have to sit. McKinney and Robinson aren't going to be out there popping treys all night ... but they are both extremely good slashers, etc., and would be a huge upgrade on defense.

[Dirtybird]

[Columbuseer]

I watched the game while sitting at gymnastics for three hours.

I guess I'll start by saying Charleston is a pretty good team. In my opinion, they are an NCAA-caliber team -- or very close to it. That is a very strong defensive team. The guy they had on Bolon all night is a top-notch, shutdown defender. Bolon was visibly frustrated as that game wore on. The announcers called him the best defender in the MEC. They also held WL down to just 14 attempts from deep (they made 7 of them).

As the announcers told us (over and over) Charleston did a great job of keeping the game at their pace.

The blatant difference in the game in my eyes was Charleston just dominated the glass (40-24) and second-chance points (WL had just 3 second-chance points all game). I don't watch WL enough but something is off with this year's press. The games I've watched it's not causing the 'chaos' it has in the the past. Granted, I've only watched the Daemen and Charleston games. Charleston broke it with ease last night as did Daemen.

Keith Williams had a career night (27 points, 9 boards). He was sizzling in the second half. Charleston isn't real deep. They played about 6 guys the bulk of the game. They played their true freshmen big, Denbow, 10 minutes as the 7th man, but he was a disaster last night. His stat line had 2 turnovers and that was it.

I don't understand how Malik McKinney only got 5 minutes last night. I would have put him on Williams -- especially in the second half. I can't see him staying there next year if he's going to be such a bit player.
I
Boswell and Dyer had a combined 5 points in 55 minutes on the floor. From what I've seen, I don't overly know what Boswell's role is in the offense.

I don't know .. McKinney and Robinson could be a really strong duo playing together. But, that would mean some of the more traditional WL guard types would have to sit. McKinney and Robinson aren't going to be out there popping treys all night ... but they are both extremely good slashers, etc., and would be a huge upgrade on defense.

Did not see UC game.
Malik and Patrick usually come in together. Malik is averaging 17 mins and Patrick is averaging 21 minutes. I can se Malik shutting down opposing big guards in March. Future is is very bright for both players IMHO.Looking at UC stats, we had relatively few assists (10) and got beaten on the glass.
I am hoping that Alessandro and Hazelbaker will get more comfortable and earn more minutes by March, which could really help us against bigger teams.

[Scrub]

Did not see UC game.
Malik and Patrick usually come in together. Malik is averaging 17 mins and Patrick is averaging 21 minutes. I can se Malik shutting down opposing big guards in March. Future is is very bright for both players IMHO.Looking at UC stats, we had relatively few assists (10) and got beaten on the glass.
I am hoping that Alessandro and Hazelbaker will get more comfortable and earn more minutes by March, which could really help us against bigger teams.

They're going to have to get minutes (earned or not), as Moore went down yesterday late, and it seemed serious enough that he might not be back immediately. At the very end of the game (I was only able to catch the final 7 minutes or so--so this part I do know), Alessandro was tasked with defending McManus.