West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Good question. I have no idea. Those Glenville rent-a-players leaving not all bad if you want to play like wlu.
Brandon was associate head coach. if he does not get head coaching gig, does he leave Glenville?
Elevate Connor Harr? He is a bball savant.

I hope no one tries to poach coach howlett.

He'd have likely been gone already. Oddly, I haven't even seen his name mentioned anywhere for openings. That's very strange given his age and success. He should be making way more than WL is paying him. If I was him I'd tell the brass down there it's time to open the check book. He should be among the top paid HCs in D2. Jordan Fee shouldn't be making more than BH.

[Chuck Norris]

He'd have likely been gone already. Oddly, I haven't even seen his name mentioned anywhere for openings. That's very strange given his age and success. He should be making way more than WL is paying him. If I was him I'd tell the brass down there it's time to open the check book. He should be among the top paid HCs in D2. Jordan Fee shouldn't be making more than BH.

I honestly wonder how much interest there actually is at the D1 level in Crutch and his disciples. That’s not meant as a slight to them, but do D1 ADs look at that style of play and just figure it can’t work at that level? It does seem tailor made for D2 ball and below.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I honestly wonder how much interest there actually is at the D1 level in Crutch and his disciples. That’s not meant as a slight to them, but do D1 ADs look at that style of play and just figure it can’t work at that level? It does seem tailor made for D2 ball and below.

I think it could work (to an extent).

If -- big if -- you could get the right roster assembled. I'd envision a whole roster of 3-star types -- perhaps overlooked fringe guys for one reason or another. You'd have trouble getting 4-star and 5-star guys wanting to play just 22 mpg.

I think it would have -- to varying degrees -- the same effect on D1 teams that it does on D2 teams.

The caveat would be all D1 teams have depth. That's not the case in D2, so it may not be as effective in simply tiring teams out. D1 defenses are also much faster, longer and stronger, so they can make up ground in spacing much quicker than D2 teams.

I suppose it's a matter of which level of D1. I'd have doubts about P5, but it could be interesting in the mid-major level.

It would be interesting to see. That's why I'm shocked mid-majors are lining up for Ben.

[Ship69]

I think it could work (to an extent).

If -- big if -- you could get the right roster assembled. I'd envision a whole roster of 3-star types -- perhaps overlooked fringe guys for one reason or another. You'd have trouble getting 4-star and 5-star guys wanting to play just 22 mpg.

I think it would have -- to varying degrees -- the same effect on D1 teams that it does on D2 teams.

The caveat would be all D1 teams have depth. That's not the case in D2, so it may not be as effective in simply tiring teams out. D1 defenses are also much faster, longer and stronger, so they can make up ground in spacing much quicker than D2 teams.

I suppose it's a matter of which level of D1. I'd have doubts about P5, but it could be interesting in the mid-major level.

It would be interesting to see. That's why I'm shocked mid-majors are lining up for Ben.

There have been some notable attempts to play press-and-run at the D1 level, most spectacularly Loyola-Marymount of some years back which was basically a sort of West Liberty system without playing much defense. They had some spectacular wins, including a tourney game where I believe they beat Michigan 143-116, or somewhere in that range, but sooner or later most of those teams run into a team with a good backcourt that can slice and dice them. A team with a quality D1 level backcourt can usually get a good many open shots against a pressing team. Iowa under Dr. Tom Davis for years had some success with a full-court press that probably was not quite as frenetic as West Liberty's, but still extended the court for 40 minutes. But again they'd eventually run into a team that could handle it and would usually bow out about the second round or so of the NCAAs. Of course one problem you run into with a press is that if you have an off shooting night, or the other team plays exceptional defense, you're not always able to set up the press.

[boatcapt]

I honestly wonder how much interest there actually is at the D1 level in Crutch and his disciples. That’s not meant as a slight to them, but do D1 ADs look at that style of play and just figure it can’t work at that level? It does seem tailor made for D2 ball and below.

Most (all?) D1 basketball programs are driven by alumni donations. By and large, the deep pocketed donors demand to see "big name" recruits (or now, transfers from P5 schools). Don't bring in name players, donors are going to revolt and keep their dollars in their pockets.

The WLU System could succeed at the D1 level but the success would need to be dramatic and immediate...like winning the first 10 games 125-90 and ending the year with 20+ wins and a Conf Final apperance. Anything less is going to leave room for donor hate and discontent. Going 16-16 the first year, even if the team went 6-26 the previous five seasons ain't going to be enough to for this notional WLU Style coach to keep his job.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Most (all?) D1 basketball programs are driven by alumni donations. By and large, the deep pocketed donors demand to see "big name" recruits (or now, transfers from P5 schools). Don't bring in name players, donors are going to revolt and keep their dollars in their pockets.

The WLU System could succeed at the D1 level but the success would need to be dramatic and immediate...like winning the first 10 games 125-90 and ending the year with 20+ wins and a Conf Final apperance. Anything less is going to leave room for donor hate and discontent. Going 16-16 the first year, even if the team went 6-26 the previous five seasons ain't going to be enough to for this notional WLU Style coach to keep his job.

That sounds more like P5 logic. The mid-majors are much more forgiving. Said coach would get more time. Put it that way.

[boatcapt]

Ok Ben!

I hear WLU's ship is sinking!!

[boatcapt]

That sounds more like P5 logic. The mid-majors are much more forgiving. Said coach would get more time. Put it that way.

Maybe more forgiving, but not nearly as forgiving as DII's.

[boatcapt]

Lamberti is hired by Western Colorado as Head Coach. Safe to say Howlett will be back

The Jim Crutchfeld coaching tree is sprouting limbs! Ben at WLU, Hoehn at Bluefield, Fee at Gannon and Lamberti at Western Colorodo. Got to believe that if you are a high quality young coach looking for a place to "intern," Nova and WLU have to be at the top of your list!

[Chuck Norris]

There have been some notable attempts to play press-and-run at the D1 level, most spectacularly Loyola-Marymount of some years back which was basically a sort of West Liberty system without playing much defense. They had some spectacular wins, including a tourney game where I believe they beat Michigan 143-116, or somewhere in that range, but sooner or later most of those teams run into a team with a good backcourt that can slice and dice them. A team with a quality D1 level backcourt can usually get a good many open shots against a pressing team. Iowa under Dr. Tom Davis for years had some success with a full-court press that probably was not quite as frenetic as West Liberty's, but still extended the court for 40 minutes. But again they'd eventually run into a team that could handle it and would usually bow out about the second round or so of the NCAAs. Of course one problem you run into with a press is that if you have an off shooting night, or the other team plays exceptional defense, you're not always able to set up the press.

Yeah I was thinking about teams that have run anything remotely similar to what WL does and their window of success wasn’t long. Loyola was really the only one who ran anything near that ‘extreme’ and they were a flash in the pan (the WL system plays better defense most of the time). I don’t see any coach implementing that style having a 10-15+ year run as a D1 coach. But a young guy like Howlett could easily go back to D2 if things didn’t work out after a few years.

[Columbuseer]

I think it could work (to an extent).

If -- big if -- you could get the right roster assembled. I'd envision a whole roster of 3-star types -- perhaps overlooked fringe guys for one reason or another. You'd have trouble getting 4-star and 5-star guys wanting to play just 22 mpg.

I think it would have -- to varying degrees -- the same effect on D1 teams that it does on D2 teams.

The caveat would be all D1 teams have depth. That's not the case in D2, so it may not be as effective in simply tiring teams out. D1 defenses are also much faster, longer and stronger, so they can make up ground in spacing much quicker than D2 teams.

I suppose it's a matter of which level of D1. I'd have doubts about P5, but it could be interesting in the mid-major level.

It would be interesting to see. That'swhy I'm shocked mid-majors are lining up for Ben.

Good points.
- The many D1 players with delusions of nba want 30+ mins a game. They only give lip service to winning is everything.
- D1 ADs and coaches are incredibly overpaid. They know a non sports gig might pay them 100k. So they are risk adverse and make decisions accordingly in order to ride the gravy train as long as possible.
- Press Virginia showed that d1 athletes cannot handle pressure in team situations. however, wvu did not have the shooting prowess of wlu.

I agree with you. I see a bottom feeder mid major taking a chance, where there is nowhere to go but up. Or perhaps military academies or ivy league where NIL is not an issue.

Even in d2, bottom of standings teams are more willing to take the risk. Witness Western Colorado.

[Columbuseer]

Yeah I was thinking about teams that have run anything remotely similar to what WL does and their window of success wasn’t long. Loyola was really the only one who ran anything near that ‘extreme’ and they were a flash in the pan (the WL system plays better defense most of the time). I don’t see any coach implementing that style having a 10-15+ year run as a D1 coach. But a young guy like Howlett could easily go back to D2 if things didn’t work out after a few years.

From a defensive perspective:
WVU Press Virginia
Nolan richardsons 40 mins of hell at Arkansas
early rick pitino at providence, who influenced crutchfield

Wlu also has 5-out positionless basketball where nearly everyone is deadly from three and who also share the ball.
color analyst at new haven game marveled at rarity of high 3 point attempts and high assists. The fatigue results in wide open practice shots.

[IUPalum]

The Jim Crutchfeld coaching tree is sprouting limbs! Ben at WLU, Hoehn at Bluefield, Fee at Gannon and Lamberti at Western Colorodo. Got to believe that if you are a high quality young coach looking for a place to "intern," Nova and WLU have to be at the top of your list!

Shamgod Wells: Player development coach Dallas Mavericks
Ron Fugala: Head coach USCB
Allen Payne: Asstistant Georgia St
Chris Fite: head coach Shippensburg
Rob Zewe: assistant coach U of Denver
Tray Woodall: associate head coach Fordham

[boatcapt]

Shamgod Wells: Player development coach Dallas Mavericks
Ron Fugala: Head coach USCB
Allen Payne: Asstistant Georgia St
Chris Fite: head coach Shippensburg
Rob Zewe: assistant coach U of Denver
Tray Woodall: associate head coach Fordham

Two Head Coaches...Not bad.

[Ship69]

Shamgod Wells: Player development coach Dallas Mavericks
Ron Fugala: Head coach USCB
Allen Payne: Asstistant Georgia St
Chris Fite: head coach Shippensburg
Rob Zewe: assistant coach U of Denver
Tray Woodall: associate head coach Fordham

Doubt Chris Fite would be interested in interning anywhere at this point in his life as he was an assistant at IUP for several years and has now run his own program for quite a few years. And his system doesn't have much resemblance to that of WL and Nova.