Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

[Looking For 9]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

Well said !!

[alumnifan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

Remember how some of us were saying we need to be patient and let Cooper build his program for a couple of years? Yeah, that means longer than the first 2 months of recruiting for his first season.

But no, by all means, go off the deep end, I mean we've signed 6 recruits in total and none of them are expected to be NBA lottery picks, so obviously we are doomed.

FWIW the same source I had that gave me the names of the coaching search finalists reads (or at least used to read) this message board. He told me flat-out that the D3 talk is utter nonsense. The administration (both of the athletic department and the school itself) are dedicated to remaining D2.

As for Cooper and this recruiting class - It looks to me like he's in the very early stages of changing our recruiting to the Bellarmine model. I'm not saying we will ever be "a Bellarmine" but anyone with half a brain can see that recruiting primarily high school players (many of them local/regional/in state) with a light sprinkling of transfers from D1 or JUCO has been a very successful model for them. Is Cooper a Scotty D? It's pretty early to say for certain that he is or isn't, but obviously he is from Scotty's coaching tree and you have to think he learned a lot from him. Cooper was instrumental in recruiting some of the best players to have ever put on a Bellarmine uniform. Again...I'm not saying that he's certain to do so well at KWC, but the only way to know for sure is to give him time! We core fans - the ones who pay for season tickets, who subscribe to the booster club (now Panther Athletic Fund), who are in the seats of the Owensboro Sportscenter every game even when the team is a complete trash-heap as it was this past year - we HAVE to give him time!

By all means let's be patient. Any criticism that I have about KWC basketball has nothing to do with Coach Cooper. Kentucky Wesleyan has not won an NCAA tournament game since 2012, and this is an 8 time NCAA National Championship program. BTW, I have been attending KWC basketball games at the Sportscenter and on the road for the past 37 years. Now, that does not hold a candle to some of the real fans who are much older than myself. Still, it gives me a little history to draw from. Also, I have been known to give money to the program and I am pretty sure that I have spent my fair share on the men's basketball program both in time, travel and money. You talk about being a core fan. Well, they don't get much more hard core than the dude writing this post. I'm too old at this point to expend much more time, energy and money on my Alma Mater's basketball program until I see some results.

The D3 chit chat was in jest, but I do know for A FACT that it has been discussed among the BOT. The BOT member who brought it up told me so. It was shot down, but the theory was IF KWC went D3 they could win more. It was not a good idea then and I don't think it's a good idea now, but if they can't win on the D2 level anymore it makes sense. It is a nice way to light a fire under somebody to bring back the TRADITION of WINNING when it counts. You can rack up all the wins you want in the regular season, but none of those wins mean very little in the big picture if the team cannot win in the NCAA tournament. Ask the University of Kentucky. KWC is not UK, but KWC has had the tradition of UK on the D2 level in the past.

[alumnifan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

Furthermore, I could care less about BELLARMINE. I have been to Knights Hall when you couldn't pack another sardine in that can. Bellarmine and Scotty Davenport hold absolutely no interest for me. That's because I am a Kentucky Wesleyan alum and fan. If Coach Cooper turns this program around, I will be the first one to drive 260 miles to watch them play at the Sportscenter.

[kdubnation]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

I don't doubt that D3 has been discussed by the BOT and I'm sure there's one or two of them that think it's a great idea, but they are by far in the minority as far as that goes. And maybe you could care less about Bellarmine but the sad fact is for the last decade they have been sitting pretty atop D2 which is where WE are supposed to be, so if we can use some of the same methods to get back to that position I'm all for it.

[Knightmoves]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

Your calculations for technical fouls made me curious about how many technicals Bellarmine players got last year, so I looked at the box scores. Chivarsky Corbett got 1. That was it. (The one technical, IMO, may well have cost Bellarmine the game against Parkside. It was for taunting an opponent, and watching it on the webcast, it looked like it was an over reaction by the ref.) Scotty did have 5 for the year, which actually was a considerable increase over the last few years. Technicals on the coach are much different than on players. It is part of the coach's job description to "work" the refs. It is clear that Scotty tells his players to leave the complaining to him. It's obvious from the KWC totals that they were a captainless ship last season. The good news for KWC is that is no longer the case. Drew Cooper is not the fire brand that Davenport is, but he will not put up with the kind of misbehavior illustrated by the technical foul totals.

[alumnifan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

I don't doubt that D3 has been discussed by the BOT and I'm sure there's one or two of them that think it's a great idea, but they are by far in the minority as far as that goes. And maybe you could care less about Bellarmine but the sad fact is for the last decade they have been sitting pretty atop D2 which is where WE are supposed to be, so if we can use some of the same methods to get back to that position I'm all for it.

Kentucky Wesleyan holds almost all the D2 records in the NCAA tournament, and believe it or not they still hold most of the records for the GLVC tournament and they have not been in the GLVC in awhile. The biggest mistake Kentucky Wesleyan ever made was joining the G-MAC. I didn't use to think that, but I thought again.

Bellarmine has played in ONE National Championship game and has won ONE National Championship, and that was in 2011. Kentucky Wesleyan played in the very first NCAA DII Tournament and was the National Runner Up in 1958 and has played in 13 National Championship Games. This is no knock on Bellarmine, but you tell me who has the most tradition? The college, the administration, the BOT and the current coaching staff with the help of the Good Lord needs to right the ship for the Kentucky Wesleyan men's basketball team and they need to do it NOW.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_II_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes_Valley_Conference_Men%27s_Basketball_T ournament

[kdubnation]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

Kentucky Wesleyan holds almost all the D2 records in the NCAA tournament, and believe it or not they still hold most of the records for the GLVC tournament and they have not been in the GLVC in awhile. The biggest mistake Kentucky Wesleyan ever made was joining the G-MAC. I didn't use to think that, but I thought again.

Bellarmine has played in ONE National Championship game and has won ONE National Championship, and that was in 2011. Kentucky Wesleyan played in the very first NCAA DII Tournament and was the National Runner Up in 1958 and has played in 13 National Championship Games. This is no knock on Bellarmine, but you tell me who has the most tradition? The college, the administration, the BOT and the current coaching staff with the help of the Good Lord needs to right the ship for the Kentucky Wesleyan men's basketball team and they need to do it NOW.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_II_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes_Valley_Conference_Men%27s_Basketball_T ournament

Of course we have more tradition going back to the beginning of what is now NCAA D2. But which of the two teams has been on top of D2 for the past 10 years? It ain't us! All I'm saying is that we need to get back to where we need to be (the top 10 and a legit regional title contender EVERY year), and the Happy Osborne model of recruiting was not doing so. The problem is, it's going to take time to rebuild the program and it's not fair to the new coaching staff or the athletic department to act as if they should be able to somehow be a national title contender already.

As for making a mistake moving to the G-MAC, that's not an opinion that I share, though I do know that it is not an uncommon opinion amongst KWC fans. It's obvious it has not helped the national prominence of the basketball program, but it HAS helped other programs such as baseball, softball, etc etc. And I see no reason why basketball isn't in a great place for a resurgence at this point, with the addition of Findlay, Hillsdale, Ohio Dominican, and Walsh the G-MAC as a basketball conference is now every bit as strong as the GLIAC top to bottom, and though I'm sure the GLVC guys will vehemently disagree I really don't think we're THAT far behind the GLVC top to bottom. So while the G-MAC has ultimately hurt our basketball program over the last 3 or 4 years - and I think it's questionable whether G-MAC or Happy Osborne's somewhat lackadaisical recruiting methods hurt more - the conference is now in a position to actually help us gain back our national prominence, assuming Cooper can bring in and develop players that will be able to get us back to winning the conference title more often than not. But again, I don't think it can be emphasized enough - if we're going to recruit primarily 4 year players it's going to take 2-3 years of being in rebuilding mode before we are likely to be nationally competitive. Unless somehow Cooper convinces a few McD's All-Americans to sign....

[alumnifan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

I can agree with most of what you just said. However, what disappoints me is the 8 or 9 years that will lapse between our last NCAA tournament win in order to win another NCAA tournament game. Righting the ship may take another 3 years, but I don't have to like it. Why and how was Osborne's recruiting methods lackadaisical? Why did the administration not step in and help him see the error of his ways? If we can be nationally competitive in 2-3 years that will be fine, assuming nationally competitive means advancing to the Elite 8.

The G-MAC hurt attendance at the Sportscenter big time, which cost the athletic program money. Whether the attendance will improve while playing in the G-MAC is still yet to be seen. We won't see USI and Bellarmine at the Sportscenter every year. When you have two big draws with a ton of rivalry infused in those games, it's pretty tough to make up for that with any two programs in the G-MAC.

Also, right now while posting, this website is not secure. If I get another virus from somebody trying to hack into my PC, I will know it came from this website. That really bothers me and it would bother anybody else.

[kdubnation]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

Something tells me we're going to be putting up a lot of 3's this season. 2 more shooters signed today

[Looking For 9]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

Yes we have more than a hand full of players that can shoot threes at a high %. Pass pass pass cut pass 4 seconds left on the shot clock shoot..good for three.

[WKYDave]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

I hope Coach Cooper either has a system that works very well or he can spot hidden talent better than most coaches. It seems that most of his first group of recruits were looking at/being recruited by D3/NAIA according to scouting services and press reports. I am not being a pessimist but looking at facts - too many on this page look at KWC through rose-colored glasses. I like the philosophy of 4 year players with a few transfers mixed in. I like having "good" kids, but ultimately I want to see KWC be an "it" program again and that takes recruiting players with talent/skill that can perform at a high D2 level. Yes, I am willing to be patient with developing players but I am worried that there isn't much "talent" to develop. The MSJ kid could light it up against D3 schools but only hit 1 shot against Bellermine. Again, if you are happy with 18-10 records year after year and graduating good kids, there is no reason for concern looking at this recruiting class. If you want to see KWC compete for regional championships, you have to hope he gets better players next year. I want to stress that these are good kids who can play basketball - I am just not convinced that they are "Higgs/Drake" caliber players that had D1 opportunities but chose D2 and neither were other D2/D1 coaches based on media reports, etc. Yes, I picked Higgs/Drake because they were recruited by a new coach after some bad seasons, like the environment our current coach is in. I hope this group proves me wrong.

My "hand-wringing" is based on the future of the program. 2 years ago I thought the Sr. year Bosley/Jacks team had a chance to put KWC back on the map that could be built upon and attract new people to the Sportscenter. Unfortunately they laid an egg against Quincy. Then, despite having good talent, last year's team was a complete train wreck from coaching on down. The stands kept getting emptier and older as the year went on. If KWC has a losing record again this year, what happens to attendance? What if they have another losing record in 2019-20? Who will be left in the stands? KWC, like all schools, is fighting demographic/culture trends that have fewer and fewer people attending Live sporting events. I would bet that the average age of season ticket holders at KWC is over 60, maybe even over 65! As they die off or are no longer able to attend games, who will be in the stands? If attendance is consistently 500 or less, why play at Sportcenter? KWC could use a new marketing push to attract fans but you have to have a good "product" to sell, otherwise you will not get "repeat" business - they won't come back. When will KWC have a "product" to sell again? Getting local kids is good, but I am under no illusions that Nathan Boyle will attract new people to Sportscenter other than family. We could sign the entire senior class of all the local high schools and not increase attendance by more than 50 people per game - that's not going to move the needle.

[Looking For 9]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

I share most of your thoughts/concerns. I think the powers to be decided that starting from ground zero was the best way to move forward. I do not know the make up of putting this team together but I think Cooper has used less than full rides and a number who will walk on. I think he has a couple more coming. This years goal is to show how his teams will play. I agree these signees do not bring in many stars but most have shown improvement this year and played on above average HS teams. I have not had to discover why it did not work with their last team (s). I think this will be a team that can be marketed and may even see stories in the MI. Cooper found out early that the remaining players could not recruit the kind of kids he wanted. We will see if these new players can recruit as they get better. I do not know what Cooper has to do to keep his job. It may be more than Ws but without wins he will not last.

[Lawson]

[Lawson]

[Looking For 9]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

First week of school me and a couple of players went to a high school gym to play a pick up game. My high school team in Indiana was very good but I noticed theses guys were as good or even better. I hear that a local high school player was going to join us. I thought good I will not be the worst player here. Player joining was Wayne chapman.


Another time I remember high school players coming for a visit. They are in the "hut". Charley Taylor, Mike Redd, Wes Unseld, a player named Pool (drowned later)
a player that went to WKU and died I think in car accident. All all state and in today's rating would be three stars or more.