IUP Football 2019

[iupgroundhog]

Re: IUP Football 2019

My approach is different. I don't make as many assumptions. I test things. That's what I do. I do research to identify what the problems are first and do my best to support that reasoning. Your approach, as near as I can figure out, is that you already have all the answers, you just know more than everybody else. 'Here is the solution', you say. Then you try to ram it down everybody's throat. It seems to me that you didn't succeed in what you were trying to do. And that's ok. But I think you needed to listen more.

You blame the inability to affect change on others' unwillingness to adapt and/or resistance to the changes that you want to enact. I think this comes through in the language you use. I am referencing your last post.

It's definitely a combination of a couple of factors.

You know what the factors are, definitely? I don't think anybody knows that.

What you need to understand is ...

Yes, tell us what we need to understand.

We tried to explain to them

They should have understood that you knew what the issues were, definitely.

[PSACfan1]

Re: IUP Football 2019

It's definitely a combination of a couple of factors.

What you need to understand is that IUP worked really hard to steamroll the "I Usually Party" reputation the school had decades ago. And with some less than stellar news coverage the past couple years, they aren't going to encourage athletic events to be "organized parties." We tried to explain to them that it's not about getting people into the game, it's about getting them to the parking lots or outside the stadium. They were resistant to events where alcohol or potential student debauchery might have occurred. We even provided them with ideas to create a more controlled setting:

1) Get a local establishment to sponsor a tented tailgate in the parking lot - serve food and alcohol. Charge a flat fee to get in, card people at the door so only 21+ can enter, and control the environment. Reasons why this could not happen:
A) IUP has a contract with Aramark and they could not work with outside vendors to serve food on IUP grounds for IUP sanctioned events.
B) IUP is a dry campus, therefore, they can't permit the sale or distribution of alcohol on campus.
C) They have an alumni reception in the KCAC prior to every home game and they felt that serves the purpose. The event is expensive, boring, and vanilla. They sell alcohol at this event, which makes me question their response that I listed in reason B.

2) Book some artist to have a pregame concert outside the stadium - use your contracted food vendor, Aramark, and have a fun time with food and live music outside the stadium. Reasons why this could not happen:
A) Entertainment bookings at IUP are done through either The Entertainment Network (TEN) or Global Marketing (the company that runs the KCAC). Essentially, IUP and the athletic department either can't through some bureaucratic red tape or doesn't want to spend any money in their limited budget booking an artist for a pregame concert.
B) We approached TEN, which is a student run organization with a university employee that heads it. They use their budget to book other events (homecoming concerts, comedy shows, etc.) and weren't interested in pursuing this.
C) Global expressed that they didn't have the budget to organize this and also successfully book/plan that year's events at the KCAC. They did bring in Jake Owen that spring, which was an awesome show (so no bad blood there).

3) Shut down food service in the dining hall for a game (preferably the first game of the season). Utilize Aramark to set up a large student tailgate/meal service during pregame. Make this be the location where students can use their meal plan for their "all you can eat" meal swipe. Cal used to do this all the time for their first home game of the season. It was called "Party in the Park." It worked great there. They didn't eliminate all food options, but they shut down the main dining hall. If you wanted to use your meal plan for an all you can eat meal option during a set time, you had to go to the stadium. If you showed up to eat, you were more inclined to stay for the game. Reasons why this could not happen:
A) Logistics of needing personnel and equipment to set up the event.
B) Logistics of needing the proper storage methods for food during the time of the event.

The reality is that there are many ways things can happen to be improved, but the powers to be at IUP hide behind red tape, contracts, and the "it's not my department" school of thought. FightingScot82 has discussed how a unionized environment has created this. And he's right. Organizing these things are no single person or team of employee's jobs. Because of that, very few employees are going to take the effort needed to improve something they aren't contractually obligated to care about. Groundhog believes that he and I have substantive disagreements, which is essentially saying that we have different views on what reality is. I see where he's coming from - to a point. Only his reality is that people don't show up because IUP has changed since the 1960s, 70s, 80s. He's not wrong about that, but that doesn't have to constitute the norm or create a defeatist attitude.

Adapt or die. My reality is that IUP doesn't do what's necessary because they don't want to. They need to adapt. Until they do, we'll continue to have this discussion.

Awesome insight.. Thanks for sharing

[Chuck Norris]

Re: IUP Football 2019

My approach is different. I don't make as many assumptions. I test things. That's what I do. I do research to identify what the problems are first and do my best to support that reasoning. Your approach, as near as I can figure out, is that you already have all the answers, you just know more than everybody else. 'Here is the solution', you say. Then you try to ram it down everybody's throat. It seems to me that you didn't succeed in what you were trying to do. And that's ok. But I think you needed to listen more.

You blame the inability to affect change on others' unwillingness to adapt and/or resistance to the changes that you want to enact. I think this comes through in the language you use. I am referencing your last post.



You know what the factors are, definitely? I don't think anybody knows that.



Yes, tell us what we need to understand.



They should have understood that you knew what the issues were, definitely.

[IUP Ebbs]

Re: IUP Football 2019

Football season can't arrive soon enough. The arguing, backbiting and snippong here is nearly insufferable.

All petty BS too. Nothing to get your knickers in a twist over.

May civility return to the forum soon.

[IUP24]

Re: IUP Football 2019

My approach is different. I don't make as many assumptions. I test things. That's what I do. I do research to identify what the problems are first and do my best to support that reasoning. Your approach, as near as I can figure out, is that you already have all the answers, you just know more than everybody else. 'Here is the solution', you say. Then you try to ram it down everybody's throat. It seems to me that you didn't succeed in what you were trying to do. And that's ok. But I think you needed to listen more.

You blame the inability to affect change on others' unwillingness to adapt and/or resistance to the changes that you want to enact. I think this comes through in the language you use. I am referencing your last post.

You did a good job of acting like a news network that tries to create a narrative towards a politician they don't like based on a couple sound bites from a political speech. Rather than interpreting the context of the entire response, you took fragments of a detailed post and attempted to create a narrative that I was a know it all jerk trying to ram my opinions down your throat.

"It's definitely a combination of a couple of factors."

PSACFan1 said this... "Well that just goes to show that either A) they don't care about the attendance numbers or B) they don't know what they are doing and/or are lazy.. I'm probably going to guess it's a little bit of both." So he introduced two factors that create an environment that negatively impact IUP attendance. You claim that I don't know what real factors are. Okay, sure, maybe I don't know all of them. But can't we agree that it's a "combination of a couple of factors?" For the deep concern of this important of a topic, it's never just one thing, is it? So I'm not sure where I said anything wrong here. Perhaps if I didn't say "definitely" you would have been happier.

"What you need to understand is..."

To my point above, you pulled a CNN here and took one phrase to frame a picture you wanted to create without taking that phrase in true context. The post that drew your ire wasn't even directed at you. It was in response to a post that was a response to one of mine from PSACFan1. He's a Slippery Rock guy and isn't dialed into the history or reputation of IUP. The word "you" in that sentence was directed at him, not you. Apologies you took offense to that or that makes me come off as a "know it all." Him and I were having a very productive and civil conversation.

What you failed to do was provide the rest of that paragraph because you were too busy making it look like I was talking down to you.

"What you need to understand is that IUP worked really hard to steamroll the "I Usually Party" reputation the school had decades ago. And with some less than stellar news coverage the past couple years, they aren't going to encourage athletic events to be "organized parties." We tried to explain to them that it's not about getting people into the game, it's about getting them to the parking lots or outside the stadium. They were resistant to events where alcohol or potential student debauchery might have occurred. "

Take that paragraph in context. You say I'm making assumptions and you dislike that. What exactly did I say there that's wrong, incorrect, or not factual? Can we not ALL agree that IUP had an awful reputation? For goodness sakes, they tore down fraternity houses near the football stadium years ago because of the commotion. Fast forward to now... Hasn't IUP worked hard to shed that reputation? Haven't they experienced bad publicity in the last five years? Nothing there is incorrect.

You say you want to test theories and data instead of making assumptions. For a long time you were an advocate for noon kickoffs, but in the last few days you have changed your tune. So I'm not sure where you really stand on the issue. That said, to provide you, and the rest of those involved with this discussion hard evidence, IUPBigIndians has provided the average attendance numbers for kickoff times in the last 5 years. Despite that, you state people won't go later because it gets cold. Well, where's your test data on that? Because to me, that seems like a subjective statement that's largely based on an assumption of "why" people might not go.

It appears that you and me are the same, Groundhog. Hopefully this feud is over. Camp can't get here soon enough for me.

[ShoNuff]

Re: IUP Football 2019

It's definitely a combination of a couple of factors.

What you need to understand is that IUP worked really hard to steamroll the "I Usually Party" reputation the school had decades ago. And with some less than stellar news coverage the past couple years, they aren't going to encourage athletic events to be "organized parties." We tried to explain to them that it's not about getting people into the game, it's about getting them to the parking lots or outside the stadium. They were resistant to events where alcohol or potential student debauchery might have occurred. We even provided them with ideas to create a more controlled setting:

1) Get a local establishment to sponsor a tented tailgate in the parking lot - serve food and alcohol. Charge a flat fee to get in, card people at the door so only 21+ can enter, and control the environment. Reasons why this could not happen:
A) IUP has a contract with Aramark and they could not work with outside vendors to serve food on IUP grounds for IUP sanctioned events.
B) IUP is a dry campus, therefore, they can't permit the sale or distribution of alcohol on campus.
C) They have an alumni reception in the KCAC prior to every home game and they felt that serves the purpose. The event is expensive, boring, and vanilla. They sell alcohol at this event, which makes me question their response that I listed in reason B.

2) Book some artist to have a pregame concert outside the stadium - use your contracted food vendor, Aramark, and have a fun time with food and live music outside the stadium. Reasons why this could not happen:
A) Entertainment bookings at IUP are done through either The Entertainment Network (TEN) or Global Marketing (the company that runs the KCAC). Essentially, IUP and the athletic department either can't through some bureaucratic red tape or doesn't want to spend any money in their limited budget booking an artist for a pregame concert.
B) We approached TEN, which is a student run organization with a university employee that heads it. They use their budget to book other events (homecoming concerts, comedy shows, etc.) and weren't interested in pursuing this.
C) Global expressed that they didn't have the budget to organize this and also successfully book/plan that year's events at the KCAC. They did bring in Jake Owen that spring, which was an awesome show (so no bad blood there).

3) Shut down food service in the dining hall for a game (preferably the first game of the season). Utilize Aramark to set up a large student tailgate/meal service during pregame. Make this be the location where students can use their meal plan for their "all you can eat" meal swipe. Cal used to do this all the time for their first home game of the season. It was called "Party in the Park." It worked great there. They didn't eliminate all food options, but they shut down the main dining hall. If you wanted to use your meal plan for an all you can eat meal option during a set time, you had to go to the stadium. If you showed up to eat, you were more inclined to stay for the game. Reasons why this could not happen:
A) Logistics of needing personnel and equipment to set up the event.
B) Logistics of needing the proper storage methods for food during the time of the event.

The reality is that there are many ways things can happen to be improved, but the powers to be at IUP hide behind red tape, contracts, and the "it's not my department" school of thought. FightingScot82 has discussed how a unionized environment has created this. And he's right. Organizing these things are no single person or team of employee's jobs. Because of that, very few employees are going to take the effort needed to improve something they aren't contractually obligated to care about. Groundhog believes that he and I have substantive disagreements, which is essentially saying that we have different views on what reality is. I see where he's coming from - to a point. Only his reality is that people don't show up because IUP has changed since the 1960s, 70s, 80s. He's not wrong about that, but that doesn't have to constitute the norm or create a defeatist attitude.

Adapt or die. My reality is that IUP doesn't do what's necessary because they don't want to. They need to adapt. Until they do, we'll continue to have this discussion.

Great post!

[Fightingscot82]

Re: IUP Football 2019

The dry campus line is a terrible excuse and goes to show that the staff member in question is so insular that he/she doesn't know what's going on at the other system schools. Plus you can bet your 401k that IUP serves alcohol at events without asking permission.

[IUPalum]

Re: IUP Football 2019

Football season can't arrive soon enough. The arguing, backbiting and snippong here is nearly insufferable.

All petty BS too. Nothing to get your knickers in a twist over.

May civility return to the forum soon.

This board hasn't been civil in a few years. This is why I don't post much anymore. Between this garbage and that Homer moron, I can't stomach this board.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: IUP Football 2019

They should just keep with the norm.


It's great

[iupgroundhog]

Re: IUP Football 2019

For a long time you were an advocate for noon kickoffs, but in the last few days you have changed your tune.

Please find a previous comment where I said I was in favor of noon kick-offs. I never have been so I think that is fake news.


It doesn't matter because I am outtahere.


I think you are right IUP24. I really am just too old to have any viable ideas. Trying to keep up with dynamic 27 year olds like you is a losing battle.


In fact, I am coming to terms that I am just too old for this forum nonsense. I'm leaving it to you creative young bucks. You pretty much know everything anyhow.


See you in September. I'm sure you can come up with a lot of great things to discuss between now and then.

[IUP CRIMSON HAWKS]

Re: IUP Football 2019

Wasn't the Indiana High QB on that roster too? Then transferred to Mercyhurst to never been hear from again? Weaver?

In the debacle that was the Kutztown game---Weaver got to take a snap.
And then that was that.
In 2014 the IUP QB position was handled like crap.

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[IUP CRIMSON HAWKS]

Re: IUP Football 2019

I've stated many on here. You just don't hear them.

What good ideas have you espoused on this forum?

Let's review here:

-Being Pro-Joe Paterno AFTER the most horrific scandal in all of sports ever. A man who failed to act to stop a pedophile that was right in his midst for decades.

-Being a constant Haslett lover and apologist.

-Advocating 12 PM kickoffs.

-Being Pro-Ron Thomas.


Enough said! Geez, Groundhog.

_

[EdinboroFB]

Re: IUP Football 2019

In the debacle that was the Kutztown game---Weaver got to take a snap.
And then that was that.
In 2014 the IUP QB position was handled like crap.

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[IUP CRIMSON HAWKS]

Re: IUP Football 2019

Cignetti most likely saved your boy $tockett from being the most hated IUP player and worst qb in recent memory. His 9 of 28 passing could have been 90 for 280.. on a team that couldnt run that well.
Haslett threw the ball 285 x in 11 games.

That is actually some great stat digging there. Yeah, 2014 was a rebuilding year after losing so much talent. It was bad all around.

When asked about his 2014 teams execution after playin' like complete s hit
Curt thought about it a moment and said that he would be in favor of it

Its easy to get enamored with what a guy looks like in a uniform (big athletic looking, strong arm)...Stockett and Box ..etc.
Boro has a version of that right now...that last year without Fletcher dump offs and forward pitches in the backfield.. would've had a completion % in the 30's. And got benched for"Chase" Kellar. Mishandling it just means they didn't have one...not much to handle.. but I'd take 60% completion over 30% any day.

My only problem with your pronouncements here is that I would have to assume that you did not get the opportunity to see $tockett play in the three now landmark scrimmages in spring ball of 2014. Goodness, the guy had some real tools for the QB position. Reminded me a bit of Ken Ferguson two decades before. I think the main problem is that he was not a fit into the system that they wanted to use. He was more like a Peter Lalich who needed to freewheel and move around and throw deep. That was more his game. His reputation of being money was well-earned.

Hell, even that time he went on vacation to Mexico all the natives were pointing him out and saying to one another that "el hombre es dinero!"

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[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: IUP Football 2019

That team also built the foundation of the 2017 undefeated team.