PASSHE Institutions Merging

[complaint_hopeful]

Yes. I know all three people who spoke. Sam and I overlapped in our time as Edinboro students but I don't remember him. Met him on the last president search. He totally gets it. Forgot to mention that his wife is an Edinboro professor too. Unsure about their job situations with consolidation. Lydia's dad was the first professor I had at Edinboro. He was famous for learning your name on the first class and being pretty good at remembering it years later. He was something special. MJ was also one of my professors teaching history of education. She's stayed local after retirement and sits on the Foundation board. All good speakers but all flowing through the faculty perspective. I was disappointed in the student speakers - they are ones who have enough regular contact with leadership (who must 100% buy in to consolidation) to take this at face value. I want to hear from student leaders who don't feel pressure to appease leadership - the fraternity council president, the sports team captain, the RA, etc.

Nailed it on students. The ones in the meetings will be on board and I'd venture that they're juniors or seniors and won't be here for this.

Pretty sure some employees won't speak their mind directly to the Chancellor. Thus on his tours when he started people wanted change. I think a lot of people doubt this plan and not just resisting change. The plans aren't well defined.

It's the freshman, sophomores, and prospective students that this will mainly impact.

Although, I don't know how you communicate with everyone.

[iupgroundhog]

With the NCAA aspect, somebody needs to ask DG "When?" When do we hear from the NCAA? and "Why haven't we heard from the NCAA?" and "DG, can you get that NCAA thing straightened out because, like, we need to know?" This is absurd. Jus' sayin'.

[complaint_hopeful]

Senator Lindsey Williams wants to hear your thoughts:

https://www.senatorlindseywilliams.com/passheredesign/

[Fightingscot82]

Something that scares me...

Leadership keeps saying that Edinboro will always be Edinboro, Clarion and Cal the same. The only known merger of two state universities, Armstrong State and Georgia Southern, is now a few years old. Armstrong had its athletic programs cut and now Georgia Southern refers to it as its Savannah campus. Three years in and only old farts will know of Armstrong.

[complaint_hopeful]

Something that scares me...

Leadership keeps saying that Edinboro will always be Edinboro, Clarion and Cal the same. The only known merger of two state universities, Armstrong State and Georgia Southern, is now a few years old. Armstrong had its athletic programs cut and now Georgia Southern refers to it as its Savannah campus. Three years in and only old farts will know of Armstrong.

Yep. Right now they say they're creating a new entity but keeping old identities. When the individual web pages and email addresses go away (if they do that. I assume they will), and other things like that...how much identity will schools have remaining?

You just can't rename something and keep the old name. Can't have both at high levels without confusion.

[WarriorVoice]

I'm not sure I understand the confusion. Administration and other services will be shared by the consolidating institutions, but the institutions aren't going away. Mansfield, Lock Haven, and Bloomsburg universities would be managed by a single administrative house. Another house would manage Clarion, California and Edinboro universities in the western part of the state. Each university would keep its individual branding and other elements that uniquely identify it. It would have a single president, a single leadership team, a single faculty, a single academic program array, but the participating universities would also be able to maintain their name, brand, and identity.

[complaint_hopeful]

I'm not sure I understand the confusion. Administration and other services will be shared by the consolidating institutions, but the institutions aren't going away. Mansfield, Lock Haven, and Bloomsburg universities would be managed by a single administrative house. Another house would manage Clarion, California and Edinboro universities in the western part of the state. Each university would keep its individual branding and other elements that uniquely identify it. It would have a single president, a single leadership team, a single faculty, a single academic program array, but the participating universities would also be able to maintain their name, brand, and identity.

It sounds good in theory, but in the execution you'll likely need to combine things to the point that it's very impractical. Like will the schools have 3 different websites or 1? If 3, then you have to maintain similar info on 3 different spots which can lead to confusion. That's one example.

When you want to enroll as a student, what will that process look like? Will each school have separate admissions phone numbers? Like will you call Clarion and they transfer you to the Cal U campus if you want to go to a program at Cal U?

And, how will the NCAA respond to the whole 1 budget/1 Athletic Staff/1 Financial Aid for 3 schools...that compete against each other? You likely could see scenarios where certain teams get loaded up with resources to field a highly competitive team tot he detriment of others. Like football - Cal U is usually pretty good. Edinboro and Clarion not so much. Wouldn't it makes sense to give Cal U a couple more scholarships? For recruiting, wouldn't it make sense to send the best players to Cal U? What about transfers? Go to Clarion and Edinboro and play as a freshman/soph and play for 2 years and when you develop transfer to Cal U.

And other sports would be opposite where you sent the best players to Clarion or Edinboro.

[Fightingscot82]

I'm not sure I understand the confusion. Administration and other services will be shared by the consolidating institutions, but the institutions aren't going away. Mansfield, Lock Haven, and Bloomsburg universities would be managed by a single administrative house. Another house would manage Clarion, California and Edinboro universities in the western part of the state. Each university would keep its individual branding and other elements that uniquely identify it. It would have a single president, a single leadership team, a single faculty, a single academic program array, but the participating universities would also be able to maintain their name, brand, and identity.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that the universities won't keep their branding for long. There's some lip service to names & nicknames staying - but not really. I have been volunteering on a focus group working with a Boston-area marketing firm to flesh out marketing & branding for the western triad. There will be a new name, website, etc. and the campuses will stay named for the universities that once operated there - but similar to Penn State campuses it will be "New Name - Clarion Golden Eagles". Let's say PASSHE picks something stupid like Western Triad University. ESU will now be playing Western Triad - California.

The proposed names ranged from "I guess that's alright" to "there's no f-ing way you're serious about this one." Most were kitchy names that sounded more like a new community college or a for-profit online school.

The thing other schools should be concerned about is whether this plan is a test for future consolidations. The system has clearly identified IUP and West Chester as the only untouchable universities - possible hub campuses for future consolidation based on east/west. Although University of Eastern Pennsylvania at East Stroudsburg is a mouth full.

[Fightingscot82]

It sounds good in theory, but in the execution you'll likely need to combine things to the point that it's very impractical. Like will the schools have 3 different websites or 1? If 3, then you have to maintain similar info on 3 different spots which can lead to confusion. That's one example.

When you want to enroll as a student, what will that process look like? Will each school have separate admissions phone numbers? Like will you call Clarion and they transfer you to the Cal U campus if you want to go to a program at Cal U?

And, how will the NCAA respond to the whole 1 budget/1 Athletic Staff/1 Financial Aid for 3 schools...that compete against each other? You likely could see scenarios where certain teams get loaded up with resources to field a highly competitive team tot he detriment of others. Like football - Cal U is usually pretty good. Edinboro and Clarion not so much. Wouldn't it makes sense to give Cal U a couple more scholarships? For recruiting, wouldn't it make sense to send the best players to Cal U? What about transfers? Go to Clarion and Edinboro and play as a freshman/soph and play for 2 years and when you develop transfer to Cal U.

And other sports would be opposite where you sent the best players to Clarion or Edinboro.

The plan shows that 3 athletic programs don't just need to be maintained but grown. I think the NCAA decision could be the silver bullet to trash this plan.

Administratively, the plan seems alright. The system was already exploring system-wide contracts, increasing shared services, and outsourcing some campus services like landscaping, housekeeping, and student health services.

Academically, there are things that I like. In the West, the three schools have strong programs in nursing, social work, & speech & hearing sciences. Edinboro and Clarion already offer a joint Doctor of Nursing Practice for those who want to be a nurse practitioner and/or teach nursing. Use that model to share faculty and build programs that bring in new students. I also like the idea of all three schools having big business programs that can allow students to take classes from any one of the three if needed (probably online).

As for the student experience, traditional aged students don't prefer taking online courses, but they're also a declining demographic in the west. The online college demographic are working adults with limited flexibility, who travel, or don't live close to a brick & mortar campus. A lot of these folks are military or middle-aged, first time college students. So you're going to eventually have excess academic buildings the same way most schools have a ton of excess dorm capacity. Also, given the cost, students aren't going to be happy about paying for dorms & meal plans for two years if a decent amount of their classes are online. And how many will choose to live on campus when they could commute? Everything points to revenue losses further exacerbating the key issue.

[complaint_hopeful]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that the universities won't keep their branding for long. There's some lip service to names & nicknames staying - but not really. I have been volunteering on a focus group working with a Boston-area marketing firm to flesh out marketing & branding for the western triad. There will be a new name, website, etc. and the campuses will stay named for the universities that once operated there - but similar to Penn State campuses it will be "New Name - Clarion Golden Eagles". Let's say PASSHE picks something stupid like Western Triad University. ESU will now be playing Western Triad - California.

The proposed names ranged from "I guess that's alright" to "there's no f-ing way you're serious about this one." Most were kitchy names that sounded more like a new community college or a for-profit online school.

The thing other schools should be concerned about is whether this plan is a test for future consolidations. The system has clearly identified IUP and West Chester as the only untouchable universities - possible hub campuses for future consolidation based on east/west. Although University of Eastern Pennsylvania at East Stroudsburg is a mouth full.

I'm pretty sure PASSHE has put out there that they want to share courses between schools and there are some behind the scenes projects going on to enable this. Now, whether that will mean other schools go into a Triad and it becomes a Quad or not...I think there will be more sharing of classes and services among ALL schools. In what form? Unknown.

And the sharing of classes and services is probably going to happen whether the Triads happen or not. Just like layoffs will happen under Sustainability plans.

[complaint_hopeful]

The plan shows that 3 athletic programs don't just need to be maintained but grown. I think the NCAA decision could be the silver bullet to trash this plan.

Administratively, the plan seems alright. The system was already exploring system-wide contracts, increasing shared services, and outsourcing some campus services like landscaping, housekeeping, and student health services.

Academically, there are things that I like. In the West, the three schools have strong programs in nursing, social work, & speech & hearing sciences. Edinboro and Clarion already offer a joint Doctor of Nursing Practice for those who want to be a nurse practitioner and/or teach nursing. Use that model to share faculty and build programs that bring in new students. I also like the idea of all three schools having big business programs that can allow students to take classes from any one of the three if needed (probably online).

As for the student experience, traditional aged students don't prefer taking online courses, but they're also a declining demographic in the west. The online college demographic are working adults with limited flexibility, who travel, or don't live close to a brick & mortar campus. A lot of these folks are military or middle-aged, first time college students. So you're going to eventually have excess academic buildings the same way most schools have a ton of excess dorm capacity. Also, given the cost, students aren't going to be happy about paying for dorms & meal plans for two years if a decent amount of their classes are online. And how many will choose to live on campus when they could commute? Everything points to revenue losses further exacerbating the key issue.

I feel like I agree with a lot of that.

My problem with the Administrative side is that it's going to take longer than a year to get the key things in place. It's going to take more like 2-3 years to get the Phase 1 items done with quality.

I don't see the overall cost savings in this. I think it will come out in a wash. I also don't see how these schools will miraculously start to grow because they're in a triad. I think they might lose enrollment.

Now, IF they decided to upon approval, design how things worked down to every detail and take 2-3 years to implement it...I'd be on board with this much more.

[WarriorVoice]

Names matter but not for everybody. Folks have been calling ESU "Stroud" for decades. Edinboro will be Edinboro until the doors close for good.

[Fightingscot82]

I'm pretty sure PASSHE has put out there that they want to share courses between schools and there are some behind the scenes projects going on to enable this. Now, whether that will mean other schools go into a Triad and it becomes a Quad or not...I think there will be more sharing of classes and services among ALL schools. In what form? Unknown.

And the sharing of classes and services is probably going to happen whether the Triads happen or not. Just like layoffs will happen under Sustainability plans.

I think sharing of classes is a good thing. There is probably a limit on how many times this could be done via accreditation but whatever helps students graduate on time. At most schools if you can't get the class you need or its full, you can apply for an independent study. Instead offer the opportunity to complete the class from another PASSHE school (in person or online).

[Fightingscot82]

I feel like I agree with a lot of that.

My problem with the Administrative side is that it's going to take longer than a year to get the key things in place. It's going to take more like 2-3 years to get the Phase 1 items done with quality.

I don't see the overall cost savings in this. I think it will come out in a wash. I also don't see how these schools will miraculously start to grow because they're in a triad. I think they might lose enrollment.

Now, IF they decided to upon approval, design how things worked down to every detail and take 2-3 years to implement it...I'd be on board with this much more.

Same. The only way this attracts students is if they cut the cost. But that's not the plan. If someone is comparing the triads with an on-the-ground option, they're going to choose the on-the-ground school - especially if they're between PASSHE schools or a local private and the price is perceived as only a bit more. Similar reason people weren't willing to pay $20 to stream a movie on its release day. Its not the same experience as seeing it in the theater with your friends.

[complaint_hopeful]

I think sharing of classes is a good thing. There is probably a limit on how many times this could be done via accreditation but whatever helps students graduate on time. At most schools if you can't get the class you need or its full, you can apply for an independent study. Instead offer the opportunity to complete the class from another PASSHE school (in person or online).

Yes - I'm for that as long as it's done correctly. Like MAT 100...you don't need professors making 100k at each school teaching low level classes. That can be a cost savings.