PASSHE Institutions Merging

[WarriorVoice]

I think that its similar to comparing FBS to D2. Its not about quality its about size & scope. There are too many stories that say coursework is just as hard if not more difficult at PASSHE schools than the big names. One reason is that professor job opportunities are so limited that PhDs go where the jobs are. I had several faculty at Edinboro who had all degrees from Ivy League schools. One professor, new at the time, said he took a job at Edinboro because the pay was better. A second reason is that the emphasis in PASSHE is teaching not research. In PASSHE there are no grad student teaching assistants - every class is taught by a full time or part time professor. At Penn State, there are 23 year olds who graduated in May teaching a freshman class in August. This is because Penn State is focused on research - professors teach fewer classes each term because they're expected to spend more time researching and writing. But this doesn't mean PASSHE can't be that for some students. There are foremost researchers teaching in PASSHE, but that's really the difference, in PASSHE they're still teaching. PASSHE doesn't have full-time research institutes because we're not designed for that.

The compensation for a research professor is way higher than other profs and adjuncts. PASSHE schools, generally speaking, can't compete with that...

[Fightingscot82]

The compensation for a research professor is way higher than other profs and adjuncts. PASSHE schools, generally speaking, can't compete with that...

You'd be surprised. PASSHE faculty make above the 90th percentile in professor salary - and that doesn't consider the pretty strong benefits package PASSHE offers. The trade-off is that they have a higher teaching load (4 courses per fall/spring semester, summer is extra). For everywhere but Cheyney & West Chester, the pay is pretty good compared to the low cost of living. What PASSHE doesn't have are non-teaching research faculty like you see at places like Pitt and Penn State, where they have faculty status & tenure but never or rarely teach a course. They may run a lab or long-term research project. Medical & law school faculty also make more plus usually practice on the side, and we don't have that in PASSHE. Its also to scale - most departments at Pitt and Penn State also offer the full range of degrees through doctoral. Most departments in PASSHE only offer a bachelor's degree.

[WarriorVoice]

You'd be surprised. PASSHE faculty make above the 90th percentile in professor salary - and that doesn't consider the pretty strong benefits package PASSHE offers. The trade-off is that they have a higher teaching load (4 courses per fall/spring semester, summer is extra). For everywhere but Cheyney & West Chester, the pay is pretty good compared to the low cost of living. What PASSHE doesn't have are non-teaching research faculty like you see at places like Pitt and Penn State, where they have faculty status & tenure but never or rarely teach a course. They may run a lab or long-term research project. Medical & law school faculty also make more plus usually practice on the side, and we don't have that in PASSHE. Its also to scale - most departments at Pitt and Penn State also offer the full range of degrees through doctoral. Most departments in PASSHE only offer a bachelor's degree.

I just Googled it...The average Professor salary at Penn State is $178,298...At ESU, the average Professor salary is $64,847...I rest my case...

[Fightingscot82]

I just Googled it...The average Professor salary at Penn State is $178,298...At ESU, the average Professor salary is $64,847...I rest my case...

Yes but what's the curve. You also have to look at it by rank. PASSHE just spent several years doing early retirement incentives for faculty who would have been at the top of that scale. The Chronicle of Higher Education (industry news organization) publishes average faculty salaries by school but they break it down by rank. Rank is an individual status rather than a hierarchal rank like the military. Its possible that a department has all full professors at the top of the salary scale and another department with all younger lesser ranked professors. The last datapoint they have is the 2018-19 year.

https://data.chronicle.com/category/...ulty-salaries/

[WarriorVoice]

Yes but what's the curve. You also have to look at it by rank. PASSHE just spent several years doing early retirement incentives for faculty who would have been at the top of that scale. The Chronicle of Higher Education (industry news organization) publishes average faculty salaries by school but they break it down by rank. Rank is an individual status rather than a hierarchal rank like the military. Its possible that a department has all full professors at the top of the salary scale and another department with all younger lesser ranked professors. The last datapoint they have is the 2018-19 year.

https://data.chronicle.com/category/...ulty-salaries/

You're joking right? I think my point still stands pretty well. PASSHE schools can't compete with Penn State when it comes to salaries. That DOESN'T mean that there are NO professors at a PASSHE school who make more than a Penn State prof.

[only1]

PASSHE's Predicament(which helped lead to the West Penn and some salary info).

https://www.alleghenyinstitute.org/w...ol20No32-1.pdf

[Fightingscot82]

You're joking right? I think my point still stands pretty well. PASSHE schools can't compete with Penn State when it comes to salaries. That DOESN'T mean that there are NO professors at a PASSHE school who make more than a Penn State prof.

I guess what you're saying is correct - but the salary systems are different. PASSHE they're unionized so your discipline and duties don't matter as much as your rank (instructor/assistant/associate/full) plus your years in that salary schedule. Faculty at Penn State aren't unionized (they are at Penn State-controlled Penn College of Technology).

PASSHE benefits are damn good. Health insurance is just 5% of your salary (2.5% if you do an annual screening) and the retirement match is double the employee contribution.

Generally speaking though, full time professor jobs are so hard to come by anymore that people will go where they can find work. Outside of true state universities, faculty pay isn't public so its hard to weigh. Most new PhDs will take the job they find - but some do covet going to an R1 like Penn State while others truly value going to a small private and don't consider the jobs the same.

[IUPNation]

What will change, what won't, when Edinboro University becomes PennWest on July 1

https://www.goerie.com/story/news/ed...s/65352609007/

Transfer to IUP!

[IUPNation]

I just Googled it...The average Professor salary at Penn State is $178,298...At ESU, the average Professor salary is $64,847...I rest my case...

[only1]

Happy Integration Day to Bloom, Lock Haven and Mansfield!

https://gantnews.com/2022/07/01/inte...ties-complete/

[ironmaniup]

I just Googled it...The average Professor salary at Penn State is $178,298...At ESU, the average Professor salary is $64,847...I rest my case...

But in many of these cases, the Research faculty earns their own salary, through research grants, and if you don't get them, you don't stay at the research university. So for someone with a salary of 178 k its likely 1/3 of that comes from grants. And the law schools, Med schools and Engineering schools command much larger salaries than the 120 k you see other full profs at. The best ones pay all of their salary through grants, whcih can be really high if they direct an institute or something like that. Then there ar the guys who write books and get on TV - they get really high salaries. PSU can pay a faculty member whatever they want to, while PASSHE is limited to the contractual amounts.

[Fightingscot82]

But in many of these cases, the Research faculty earns their own salary, through research grants, and if you don't get them, you don't stay at the research university. So for someone with a salary of 178 k its likely 1/3 of that comes from grants. And the law schools, Med schools and Engineering schools command much larger salaries than the 120 k you see other full profs at. The best ones pay all of their salary through grants, whcih can be really high if they direct an institute or something like that. Then there ar the guys who write books and get on TV - they get really high salaries. PSU can pay a faculty member whatever they want to, while PASSHE is limited to the contractual amounts.

I think that's the explanation. Faculty know if they're world class or not. The 99% who are divided by who wants research/scholarship to be their focus and who wants teaching. PASSHE requires 4 courses per term when most schools are 3 courses per term. PASSHE's contract rewards years in the system rather than disciplinary prestige or department. English faculty make the same as MBA faculty with the same rank/experience. You also get capped at just north of $120k. That's a nice salary for 9 month work but nobody's getting rich.

[Fightingscot82]

To quote POTUS when he was VPOTUS, this is a big f'n deal: https://www.inquirer.com/news/pennsy...-20220708.html

[IUPNation]

To quote POTUS when he was VPOTUS, this is a big f'n deal: https://www.inquirer.com/news/pennsy...-20220708.html

[CALUPA69]

Uhh, I think that extra $150M is earmarked for paying off the ANGELO DOME and other assorted improvements in the Valley !?!?