PASSHE Institutions Merging

[complaint_hopeful]

Looks like these two have the inside track to be the next presidents of the new schools:

"Clarion President Dale-Elizabeth Pehrsson was appointed to lead the effort that will begin the next phase of exploring the combination of the three western universities, while Bloomsburg President Bashar Hanna was named to head up the group looking at integrating the three northcentral schools."

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/1...-campuses.html

That's been the rumor. I listened to the meeting yesterday and I'd say that those 2 are the Presidents of these schools. No inside track. I'd say it's clear that they're going to be leading it.

[complaint_hopeful]

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202010140147

While nothing is set in stone, at one point I believe it was Clarions President indicated that Clarions name has changed many times over the years. She didn't directly say their name would change, but some listening thought that implied it.

I think you might see something like Western PA University - Clarion/Edinboro/California. Kind of like Penn State - McKeesport, etc.

[complaint_hopeful]

If that's how it plays out ... it is hard to imagine some of these schools no longer having a football or basketball team on campus. I get the general public could care less if Clarion has a football team or Edinboro has basketball ... but for us long-time PSAC fans it will be pretty odd.

If sports leave a Clarion or Edinboro ... just seems a matter of time until they become glorified community college (commuter) campuses.

From my perspective, why would anybody go to these schools? Athletics are a major part of campus life. In the West, should this go down, I see IUP and SRU laughing all the way to the bank. They'll get huge spikes out of this merger (of sorts). Do you want to go to the varsity college or the junior varsity college?

I get there are other sports beside football and basketball ... but ... two drive the bus.

I don't know that they'll get rid of sports. Maybe a program here and there, but I think they'll keep most. Just a gut feeling. Atleast not initially.

They're not going to do things in this that kill public support until it's well established that it's a success.

Now the Faculty Union did complain on the call. The Clarion President seemed to state that Administrative positions will get cut in this also among the schools. Now whether that means management or management and staff remains to be seen. But 1 school would provide services for 3 or some conglomeration.

[iupgroundhog]

Another article from The Express below. It's all a step closer (Greenstein has put the next steps out there as I suggested, LOL.).

As a LH native, I am in favor of the whole 3-school plan. It makes total sense on virtually every level.

Sports will be affected to some extent. It might not be immediate but it's not that far down the road.

I've been a fan of LH wrestling for over 50 years. It's a part of me (and vice-versa) just as IUP football is. I'm concerned about the LHU wrestling program but it has a lot of support. Maybe more support than any single team in the PSAC (perhaps SRU and IUP football).

LHU wrestling is privately funded in terms of scholarships almost up to the D1 limit. Some of the travel is also supported privately. The community support is very high. Plus, wrestling in Lock Haven is an industry. The camps, the tournaments, they bring in a lot of people. It can be placed under the banner of tourism.

Moreover, what Coach Scott Moore has revived with LHU is great. By any interpretation, whether it's rankings, academic performance of the team, attendance, they are a top 25 team in D1. The incoming recruiting class is awesome and ranked very highly nationally. Hopefully, the program can survive for a long time.

I couldn't imagine LHU without sports. Personally, I think they should drop football and replace it with a sprint program. That would have the result of strengthening all other sports and putting any Title IX concerns to rest. I don't see any reason that LHU and Bloom can't continue to have robust athletic programs at each campus (Mansfield I'm not so sure).

I will say that I think that system-wide the current changes will eventually drastically change the PSAC.

The article below.

https://www.lockhaven.com/news/urgen...a-step-closer/

[Fightingscot82]

The problem with cutting sports is that yes, its cutting budget, but you also cut students. Cutting football sheds a nice chunk of the athletic budget but is met with equal or greater tuition revenue losses. When you cut football, that's roughly 100 students right there. What's great about the PASSHE setup is that all students bring in full tuition anyway - all financial aid is external so its not like they save on discounting. Some sports - like football - bring in a disproportionate number of out of state students, so that's additional revenue lost when they leave. Athletics is also a big factor in their ability to enroll non-white students. Schools like Clarion, Lock Haven, and Mansfield aren't adjacent to diverse metro areas like Pittsburgh, Erie, or Philadelphia. Lock Haven is 2 hours from Harrisburg. Conversely, Edinboro is within 2 hours of Buffalo, Cleveland, Erie, and Pittsburgh. It's harder to recruit a diverse enrollment when you're not a very diverse campus surrounded by much less diverse communities. They're not going to make that happen by recruiting the few non-white students in Franklin, Williamsport, and Wellsboro.

I think you'll see some consolidation in lesser sports. Can Edinboro and Clarion both sustain D1 wrestling? Maybe. Clarion's president recently found money to increase the scholarship numbers for football, basketball, and wrestling.

[iupgroundhog]

The problem with cutting sports is that yes, its cutting budget, but you also cut students. Cutting football sheds a nice chunk of the athletic budget but is met with equal or greater tuition revenue losses. When you cut football, that's roughly 100 students right there. What's great about the PASSHE setup is that all students bring in full tuition anyway - all financial aid is external so its not like they save on discounting. Some sports - like football - bring in a disproportionate number of out of state students, so that's additional revenue lost when they leave. Athletics is also a big factor in their ability to enroll non-white students. Schools like Clarion, Lock Haven, and Mansfield aren't adjacent to diverse metro areas like Pittsburgh, Erie, or Philadelphia. Lock Haven is 2 hours from Harrisburg. Conversely, Edinboro is within 2 hours of Buffalo, Cleveland, Erie, and Pittsburgh. It's harder to recruit a diverse enrollment when you're not a very diverse campus surrounded by much less diverse communities. They're not going to make that happen by recruiting the few non-white students in Franklin, Williamsport, and Wellsboro.

I think you'll see some consolidation in lesser sports. Can Edinboro and Clarion both sustain D1 wrestling? Maybe. Clarion's president recently found money to increase the scholarship numbers for football, basketball, and wrestling.

That is all true. However, I would argue that it's not the whole picture. How much does running the FB program cost? You save that money. Dropping the sport is a one shot deal. Then you start to recover in other areas. LH has a notoriously bad FB program. Could it help their image? I remember one year when Swarthmore College had a really good FB team and the students got all bent out of shape about it. They didn't want to go to a school with a good football team. Kind of an opposite case scenario.

As far as attracting minority students. It's challenging, but LHU has always had a pretty good minority recruitment program and not just focused on sports

[Sec10-A-14]

Adjusted for inflation, $412,751,000 in 2011 would be $483,934,446 in today's dollars.

Great elderly friend of mine retired in 2007 from private industry (union worker). Since that time he has not rec'd one penny increase in his pension. No Cost of living increase... Nada... Zippo... none. That can't be said for the free wheeling spenders in Pa.
How is he to keep paying higher taxes? Real estate, Food, Electric, Heating atc. Its killing seniors.
But all these schools want is more money. Pa with an aging population will tend to drive more people out
with all those tax increases.

[Bart]

Great elderly friend of mine retired in 2007 from private industry (union worker). Since that time he has not rec'd one penny increase in his pension. No Cost of living increase... Nada... Zippo... none. That can't be said for the free wheeling spenders in Pa.
How is he to keep paying higher taxes? Real estate, Food, Electric, Heating atc. Its killing seniors.
But all these schools want is more money. Pa with an aging population will tend to drive more people out
with all those tax increases.

Should the budget cut from $487 million for PASSHE or out of the 2.5 Billion Department of Corrections?

[WarriorVoice]

While nothing is set in stone, at one point I believe it was Clarions President indicated that Clarions name has changed many times over the years. She didn't directly say their name would change, but some listening thought that implied it.

I think you might see something like Western PA University - Clarion/Edinboro/California. Kind of like Penn State - McKeesport, etc.

Everything I've read says the schools will retain their names, they'll just be run by one administrative group.

[boatcapt]

That is all true. However, I would argue that it's not the whole picture. How much does running the FB program cost? You save that money. Dropping the sport is a one shot deal. Then you start to recover in other areas. LH has a notoriously bad FB program. Could it help their image? I remember one year when Swarthmore College had a really good FB team and the students got all bent out of shape about it. They didn't want to go to a school with a good football team. Kind of an opposite case scenario.

As far as attracting minority students. It's challenging, but LHU has always had a pretty good minority recruitment program and not just focused on sports

I think what will happen with regard to athletics is that they will be combined in each grouping and treated as a one program behind the scenes (one budget, one AD, etc.). The three college groupings will have one football program, one men's basketball program, one women's basketball program, one wrestling program, etc. These programs will be split-up between the three campuses that constitute each university. I think the "big 3" sports (football, men's and women's basketball) will be divided between the three campuses so one campus will not get football and basketball while another gets cross country, field hockey and tennis as their "big" sports.

[WarriorVoice]

I think what will happen with regard to athletics is that they will be combined in each grouping and treated as a one program behind the scenes (one budget, one AD, etc.). The three college groupings will have one football program, one men's basketball program, one women's basketball program, one wrestling program, etc. These programs will be split-up between the three campuses that constitute each university. I think the "big 3" sports (football, men's and women's basketball) will be divided between the three campuses so one campus will not get football and basketball while another gets cross country, field hockey and tennis as their "big" sports.

Nothing I've read indicates anything like that. Each school maintains their name, so why would they drop ANY sports teams?! The savings will come from consolidating the administrations.

[iupgroundhog]

I think what will happen with regard to athletics is that they will be combined in each grouping and treated as a one program behind the scenes (one budget, one AD, etc.). The three college groupings will have one football program, one men's basketball program, one women's basketball program, one wrestling program, etc. These programs will be split-up between the three campuses that constitute each university. I think the "big 3" sports (football, men's and women's basketball) will be divided between the three campuses so one campus will not get football and basketball while another gets cross country, field hockey and tennis as their "big" sports.

The more I think about it I think athletics will be the last thing to become "integrated." Some sports might get cut but that is the trend at all the schools, whether they are part of the integration or not.

I don't see how having one athletics department for the "system" could work. I think they will all maintain their athletics identity, although Mansfield is a little suspect simply based on its small enrollment.

There are combinations of campuses everywhere that operate as separate entities in sports. For example, 2 PSU campuses (Behrend and Altoona) and 2 Pitt campuses (Bradford and Greensburg) are members of the Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference and compete against each other. Here in El Paso, UTEP just played UT-Austin (mismatch) in football. This is the pattern everywhere. So, I think concerns about sports teams are probably not warranted.

I do think football at LHU is endangered, especially when the impact of the pandemic becomes clearer. Mansfield dropped football and that has allowed them to support an 11-sport program. They couldn't do any of those sports if they still had NCAA football, I don't think.

[boatcapt]

Nothing I've read indicates anything like that. Each school maintains their name, so why would they drop ANY sports teams?! The savings will come from consolidating the administrations.

One of the cost savings that being highlighted is through "shared services." Why have three seporate functions when you can have one that is shared by all three. Starting to hear that about entire programs in these groupings (why should all three campuses offer Political Science degrees (for example)? You can safe $ by eliminating this degree track at all but one campus). Same goes with athletics, why have three redundant (and expensive) and competing football programs when you can focus your resources at one location? If you are looking at these campus groupings as single units, why would you pay for 3 head football coaches (and staffs) and staff, 6 head basketball head coaches (and staffs), etc? When you are shaking the seat cusions for lose change, how can you justify paying for 6 head basketball coaches when you can get by with 2??

[boatcapt]

The more I think about it I think athletics will be the last thing to become "integrated." Some sports might get cut but that is the trend at all the schools, whether they are part of the integration or not.

I don't see how having one athletics department for the "system" could work. I think they will all maintain their athletics identity, although Mansfield is a little suspect simply based on its small enrollment.

There are combinations of campuses everywhere that operate as separate entities in sports. For example, 2 PSU campuses (Behrend and Altoona) and 2 Pitt campuses (Bradford and Greensburg) are members of the Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference and compete against each other. Here in El Paso, UTEP just played UT-Austin (mismatch) in football. This is the pattern everywhere. So, I think concerns about sports teams are probably not warranted.

I do think football at LHU is endangered, especially when the impact of the pandemic becomes clearer. Mansfield dropped football and that has allowed them to support an 11-sport program. They couldn't do any of those sports if they still had NCAA football, I don't think.

When things are going well, there are things that you can do with regard to athletics (multiple teams from the same organization funding the same sports) that make much less sense when multiple schools within that organization are on the verge of financial failure.

[iupgroundhog]

One of the cost savings that being highlighted is through "shared services." Why have three seporate functions when you can have one that is shared by all three. Starting to hear that about entire programs in these groupings (why should all three campuses offer Political Science degrees (for example)? You can safe $ by eliminating this degree track at all but one campus). Same goes with athletics, why have three redundant (and expensive) and competing football programs when you can focus your resources at one location? If you are looking at these campus groupings as single units, why would you pay for 3 head football coaches (and staffs) and staff, 6 head basketball head coaches (and staffs), etc? When you are shaking the seat cusions for lose change, how can you justify paying for 6 head basketball coaches when you can get by with 2??

Believe it or not it's not ALL about the money. Or, there are cuts that could be made that would just be detrimental in the big picture. You could save money by having one name, one logo, one brand. There are reasons that probably is not a good idea.

In terms of maintaining each school's identity, athletics is the most important thing.

As I mentioned in my previous post, independent athletics programs are the norm under these types of arrangements.

Each school keeping their own sports will make all this much more palatable to those involved.