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  • Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    I'm going to take that as sarcasm.
    I guess it is hard to read sarcasm on a message board.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by CALUPA69 View Post
      Any possibility WOLF runs for senate seat?
      I doubt it. The names I read being tossed around were mostly those elected to the House.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by IUPNation View Post

        I doubt it. The names I read being tossed around were mostly those elected to the House.
        Any front runners?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by CALUPA69 View Post
          Any possibility WOLF runs for senate seat?
          Wolf couldn't win a bid on Homecoming at Homer-Center right now.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post

            Wolf couldn't win a bid on Homecoming at Homer-Center right now.
            Not really significant when you get 87% of Philly and 60ish% in Allegheny, Chester, Delaware Montgomery and Lehigh.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

              Greenstein is being careful to present a limited, short-term plan although the long term results are existential for some of the schools and the system itself.

              I think he needs to present a realistic medium-term plan before this all blows up in our collective faces, we go back to square one and Greenstein decides to bolt.

              Face it, the Bloomfield Haven plan results in a weakened LHU and a virtually non-existent Mansfield. That's the inevitability of his plan. He needs to put that out there if Mansfield and LH are destined to become branches of Bloomsburg. People need to see where it's going. Clearly, there are too many special interests with 14 university communities, all with a variety of constituencies.

              As for the western PA schools, I think he needs to present it as a western PA plan. The inevitability there is you end up with 2 or 3 schools with satellite branches. He needs to present that plan (which is more drastic) rather than beat around the bush as he is now.

              These 2 ultimate plans leave the satellite schools in place, albeit reduced, and allow them to die their slow deaths in whatever shape that takes.

              I understand Greenstein is a take-charge guy with unparalleled experience but all the competing interests threaten to derail any needed progress.
              I honestly think they only know the big picture of what the want to do. The how and what haven't been figured out. And there isn't a lot of time to do that. But, it's fairly complex.

              Like taking classes from any school in PASSHE sounds great, but the schools use a lot of different systems. They have different processes to enroll. They aren't even all on the same academic calendar. A LOT of things need changed to make this happen. And some of it could involve implementing new technology and integrating it among the schools. This won't be something that happens over night.

              Then the sharing of resources like Faculty sounds good. But how do you share in person faculty? The pandemic is already showing that some students aren't interested in online education or view it as worth less. It's like the timing of the pandemic is working for and against this plan at the same time.

              The Chancellor is a bright visionary. It's really too bad he didn't get here 5 or 10 years ago when things were more stable and he could have taken gradual steps then.

              I believe it was Armenti from Cal in the mid-2000's that recognized the state was privatizing colleges without a plan by cutting state funding year over year. Essentially making them stand on their own financially. What we're seeing is the end result of that cut. You take the state funding back up to state average in the US and these schools are doing much, much better and their service levels could likely increase too.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post

                Wolf couldn't win a bid on Homecoming at Homer-Center right now.
                No he couldn’t but if we had listened to the people in Homer City we’d be worse off with Rona than we already are...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post

                  I honestly think they only know the big picture of what the want to do. The how and what haven't been figured out. And there isn't a lot of time to do that. But, it's fairly complex.

                  Like taking classes from any school in PASSHE sounds great, but the schools use a lot of different systems. They have different processes to enroll. They aren't even all on the same academic calendar. A LOT of things need changed to make this happen. And some of it could involve implementing new technology and integrating it among the schools. This won't be something that happens over night.

                  Then the sharing of resources like Faculty sounds good. But how do you share in person faculty? The pandemic is already showing that some students aren't interested in online education or view it as worth less. It's like the timing of the pandemic is working for and against this plan at the same time.

                  The Chancellor is a bright visionary. It's really too bad he didn't get here 5 or 10 years ago when things were more stable and he could have taken gradual steps then.

                  I believe it was Armenti from Cal in the mid-2000's that recognized the state was privatizing colleges without a plan by cutting state funding year over year. Essentially making them stand on their own financially. What we're seeing is the end result of that cut. You take the state funding back up to state average in the US and these schools are doing much, much better and their service levels could likely increase too.
                  He could also really build a football program. The 'how' ... well, that's a different story.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post

                    I honestly think they only know the big picture of what the want to do. The how and what haven't been figured out. And there isn't a lot of time to do that. But, it's fairly complex.

                    Like taking classes from any school in PASSHE sounds great, but the schools use a lot of different systems. They have different processes to enroll. They aren't even all on the same academic calendar. A LOT of things need changed to make this happen. And some of it could involve implementing new technology and integrating it among the schools. This won't be something that happens over night.

                    Then the sharing of resources like Faculty sounds good. But how do you share in person faculty? The pandemic is already showing that some students aren't interested in online education or view it as worth less. It's like the timing of the pandemic is working for and against this plan at the same time.

                    The Chancellor is a bright visionary. It's really too bad he didn't get here 5 or 10 years ago when things were more stable and he could have taken gradual steps then.

                    I believe it was Armenti from Cal in the mid-2000's that recognized the state was privatizing colleges without a plan by cutting state funding year over year. Essentially making them stand on their own financially. What we're seeing is the end result of that cut. You take the state funding back up to state average in the US and these schools are doing much, much better and their service levels could likely increase too.
                    10 years ago we had a governor who felt the state should get out of the education service. His actions expedited what Armenti was talking about (the gradual divestment of the state's share of funding PASSHE). I've long argued that PASSHE needs to negotiate increased funding in exchange for price fixing. The legislature needs to understand that tuition is directly related to state funding, not administrative bloat (another topic for another day). But with Covid, I don't think that's happening. We're right back to where we were post-9/11 with less margin of error. Demographics are still declining in our state and in our region. Fewer possible students means fewer actual students and fewer actual students means a reduction in the source of ~70% of the schools' revenue. Greenstein is exactly what the system needs but I agree - I wish he were here sooner. The only thing I can see saving the individual identity of the 14 schools is *maybe* Biden's plan to significantly increase federal financial aid for families making less than $125k if students attend public campuses. If that plan passes, it will transform the industry and undercut the discounting advantage of the private schools. If Carlow or Chatham or Point Park closes, the Pittsburgh region hardly notices and that real estate quickly transfers. If Clarion or Mansfield closes, entire counties will be on life support for generations or possibly forever.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

                      10 years ago we had a governor who felt the state should get out of the education service. His actions expedited what Armenti was talking about (the gradual divestment of the state's share of funding PASSHE). I've long argued that PASSHE needs to negotiate increased funding in exchange for price fixing. The legislature needs to understand that tuition is directly related to state funding, not administrative bloat (another topic for another day). But with Covid, I don't think that's happening. We're right back to where we were post-9/11 with less margin of error. Demographics are still declining in our state and in our region. Fewer possible students means fewer actual students and fewer actual students means a reduction in the source of ~70% of the schools' revenue. Greenstein is exactly what the system needs but I agree - I wish he were here sooner. The only thing I can see saving the individual identity of the 14 schools is *maybe* Biden's plan to significantly increase federal financial aid for families making less than $125k if students attend public campuses. If that plan passes, it will transform the industry and undercut the discounting advantage of the private schools. If Carlow or Chatham or Point Park closes, the Pittsburgh region hardly notices and that real estate quickly transfers. If Clarion or Mansfield closes, entire counties will be on life support for generations or possibly forever.
                      Nice post! And I agree with all your points.

                      Plus, I want to add that with the rise of SNHU and online schools, while the student amount is declining...schools like that are taking some of our students. Then our community colleges enter into agreements with them to lose even more. That points to no overall strategy for state funded/affiliated education. (As do the numerous Pitt/Penn State campuses in PASSHE schools backyards.)

                      I had a Gartner doc from several years ago that talked about the market our schools is in being basically the worst market. It's hypercompetitive. Kids looking for lower cost education go to community colleges initially. Then if you want a big name and/or prestigious school...you pay a little more and go to that school. Then, you have the online giants. It's really tough. We have brands but they're largely regional or local. So when the amount of people in that market decline...trouble.

                      And, the schools within PASSHE seemed to be competing against each other! I had a friend from Edinboro mention that there was a Cal U sign right outside Edinboro's campus! (I think she mentioned that's gone now, but still.)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

                        10 years ago we had a governor who felt the state should get out of the education service. His actions expedited what Armenti was talking about (the gradual divestment of the state's share of funding PASSHE). I've long argued that PASSHE needs to negotiate increased funding in exchange for price fixing. The legislature needs to understand that tuition is directly related to state funding, not administrative bloat (another topic for another day). But with Covid, I don't think that's happening. We're right back to where we were post-9/11 with less margin of error. Demographics are still declining in our state and in our region. Fewer possible students means fewer actual students and fewer actual students means a reduction in the source of ~70% of the schools' revenue. Greenstein is exactly what the system needs but I agree - I wish he were here sooner. The only thing I can see saving the individual identity of the 14 schools is *maybe* Biden's plan to significantly increase federal financial aid for families making less than $125k if students attend public campuses. If that plan passes, it will transform the industry and undercut the discounting advantage of the private schools. If Carlow or Chatham or Point Park closes, the Pittsburgh region hardly notices and that real estate quickly transfers. If Clarion or Mansfield closes, entire counties will be on life support for generations or possibly forever.
                        Armenti was right, and a few years ago the schools that were doing well when WCU wanted to go it alone should have pushed for it. IUP SRU WCU Millersville, and Bloom could have probably made it, had they been able to get out from under the state regs, and union contracts then. I disagree about Greenstein though. He's wasted alot of time with useless meetings and commissions. He's very clearly just a hatchet man, though definitely Smooth - I don't believe he was ever seriously re-imagining the system. He was just providing the sweet talk before he dropped the ax. Would Bidens Plan of more federal money for students at state schools help ? Short term maybe a little, But I doubt it will pass, as most states outside of PA already really subsidize their students. The final bill will peobably give the states scontroll of the money. and there is still the PSU branches.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ironmaniup View Post

                          Armenti was right, and a few years ago the schools that were doing well when WCU wanted to go it alone should have pushed for it. IUP SRU WCU Millersville, and Bloom could have probably made it, had they been able to get out from under the state regs, and union contracts then. I disagree about Greenstein though. He's wasted alot of time with useless meetings and commissions. He's very clearly just a hatchet man, though definitely Smooth - I don't believe he was ever seriously re-imagining the system. He was just providing the sweet talk before he dropped the ax. Would Bidens Plan of more federal money for students at state schools help ? Short term maybe a little, But I doubt it will pass, as most states outside of PA already really subsidize their students. The final bill will peobably give the states scontroll of the money. and there is still the PSU branches.
                          Probably so. The integrations all end up in a similar place and that's with less faculty/staff and operating as one. By forcing the sustainability plans in 2 years though, that makes the cuts happen BEFORE the integrations.

                          I still think a lot of kids are going to think twice before going to schools...all but 2 classified as in some type of financial trouble. And it's unknown if you go to about 5 of them, if the name of the school will be the same when you graduate. We'll see I guess.

                          But, yes - What's happening isn't innovation. They're essentially copying what a few other state systems did to stay afloat.

                          I kind of wondered if his ties to the Gates Foundation had some other motives. Put him in charge of a failing system, and see if some of the Gates stuff can be implemented to fix it. I'd like to see more corporate partnerships, etc. At the end of the day though, it's really hard to innovate in higher ed.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post

                            Probably so. The integrations all end up in a similar place and that's with less faculty/staff and operating as one. By forcing the sustainability plans in 2 years though, that makes the cuts happen BEFORE the integrations.

                            I still think a lot of kids are going to think twice before going to schools...all but 2 classified as in some type of financial trouble. And it's unknown if you go to about 5 of them, if the name of the school will be the same when you graduate. We'll see I guess.

                            But, yes - What's happening isn't innovation. They're essentially copying what a few other state systems did to stay afloat.

                            I kind of wondered if his ties to the Gates Foundation had some other motives. Put him in charge of a failing system, and see if some of the Gates stuff can be implemented to fix it. I'd like to see more corporate partnerships, etc. At the end of the day though, it's really hard to innovate in higher ed.
                            The short window is the hand that Greenstein was dealt. The law that gives the PASSHE the ability to effect change without Legislative approval had a 3 year shelf-life AND levied a whole raft of meetings, hearings, re-writes and "consultations" before anything actually goes into effect. While it would be more effective to make changes to the system as part of a logical process, the controversial nature of some of the changes such as academic staff cuts means that those changes are going to take longer that less controversial changes (such as shared services). That makes the process somewhat herky jerky.

                            Greenstein and the PASSHE have been given 3 years to impliment their plan before the Legislature steps back in. I said when they started that they REALLY needed to have the changes made in 2 years which would give them 1 year to show success. That would make it more difficult for the politicans to step back in and enter political alliances that might be good for a local community or two that they serve, but not good for the PASSHE as a whole. Any changes made in the last year of the law would face a very real chance of being repealed by the Legislature.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                              The short window is the hand that Greenstein was dealt. The law that gives the PASSHE the ability to effect change without Legislative approval had a 3 year shelf-life AND levied a whole raft of meetings, hearings, re-writes and "consultations" before anything actually goes into effect. While it would be more effective to make changes to the system as part of a logical process, the controversial nature of some of the changes such as academic staff cuts means that those changes are going to take longer that less controversial changes (such as shared services). That makes the process somewhat herky jerky.

                              Greenstein and the PASSHE have been given 3 years to impliment their plan before the Legislature steps back in. I said when they started that they REALLY needed to have the changes made in 2 years which would give them 1 year to show success. That would make it more difficult for the politicans to step back in and enter political alliances that might be good for a local community or two that they serve, but not good for the PASSHE as a whole. Any changes made in the last year of the law would face a very real chance of being repealed by the Legislature.
                              Well, it shouldn't be the PASSHE versus the state legislature. It's a real problem that these small-town/rural areas that house the PASSHE schools have gone Republican in terms of their representation.

                              These Republicans that they voted in might make the locals feel good as far as gun rights and "conservative values", but when it comes to stuff like economic development and keeping these areas in the PA hinterlands relevant they are going to strike out - in fact, they aren't even going to come to bat.

                              There should be a coalition of state legislators supporting the system right now. Maybe I don't know about it but I don't think there is.

                              To paraphrase Walter Cronkite, ' And that's the way it is, October 11, 2020.'
                              Last edited by iupgroundhog; 10-11-2020, 10:54 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ironmaniup View Post

                                Armenti was right, and a few years ago the schools that were doing well when WCU wanted to go it alone should have pushed for it. IUP SRU WCU Millersville, and Bloom could have probably made it, had they been able to get out from under the state regs, and union contracts then. I disagree about Greenstein though. He's wasted alot of time with useless meetings and commissions. He's very clearly just a hatchet man, though definitely Smooth - I don't believe he was ever seriously re-imagining the system. He was just providing the sweet talk before he dropped the ax. Would Bidens Plan of more federal money for students at state schools help ? Short term maybe a little, But I doubt it will pass, as most states outside of PA already really subsidize their students. The final bill will peobably give the states scontroll of the money. and there is still the PSU branches.
                                We will never know whether some PASSHE schools could have made it as a private institution. Most people thought that would have been an uphill struggle. Not only that, it would have meant abandoning their central mission of providing educational opportunities within reach of all Pennsylvanians.

                                I never thought Armenti was right. Sure, he cast a light on the decreased state subsidy. However, I didn't think the answer was to abandon their state relationship. I thought the answer at the time was to fight for an adequate subsidy from the state. That's a completely different direction.

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