PASSHE Institutions Merging

[boatcapt]

Believe it or not it's not ALL about the money. Or, there are cuts that could be made that would just be detrimental in the big picture. You could save money by having one name, one logo, one brand. There are reasons that probably is not a good idea.

In terms of maintaining each school's identity, athletics is the most important thing.

As I mentioned in my previous post, independent athletics programs are the norm under these types of arrangements.

Each school keeping their own sports will make all this much more palatable to those involved.

Never said that they would or even should shutter the entire athletic program at any of these campuses or that the remaining athletic teams wouldn't be branded with the campus the team/individual was at. What i said was that elimination of duplication make sense from a dollar and sense standpoint. The more I read the more it seems that these two groupings are going to be fully intigrated and act as single entities but that each campus will keep the facade of being their own entity. If you are a single entity why do you need three separate budgets or admission departments or Political Science departments example)...OR volleyball teams??

[Fightingscot82]

Athletes pay tuition too. You save $200k in men's basketball salaries but you lose 12 students paying on average $22k each. On top of that you lose basketball game revenue which funds scholarships for programs that don't charge admission. Plus, in those winter months, men's basketball guarantees you coverage twice a week on the three news networks in Erie and the newspapers in Erie and Meadville.

[shipfbfan1]

Really dissecting this financially even if they kept the athletic teams at each university they'd still save money as there would be 1 University President rather than 3, It would allow maybe the schools to keep their original name under the California and Bloomsburg umbrellas such as California-Clarion, California-Edinboro similar to the State of California University system where they have Cal-Berkley, Cal-Davis, UCLA.

[Fightingscot82]

Really dissecting this financially even if they kept the athletic teams at each university they'd still save money as there would be 1 University President rather than 3, It would allow maybe the schools to keep their original name under the California and Bloomsburg umbrellas such as California-Clarion, California-Edinboro similar to the State of California University system where they have Cal-Berkley, Cal-Davis, UCLA.

Presidents make well under market in PASSHE. Most are in the $250k range. So let's say their total compensation is $400k. These schools aren't going to sell off the president's residence - at Cal its an apartment. Somebody also needs to be in charge on the local level. It's also going to cost more for Dale Pehrsson to cover all that territory from Clarion. I don't see much savings. That's an unusual strain on VPs or Deans or Department Chairs who have to cover those three schools, supervise departments at those schools, etc.

I don't see any advantage to a consolidated name (or much of this at all). Changing the name to WPSU-Clarion or UWP-Clarion doesn't amplify anything in the same way creating PASSHE didn't amplify anything. If the goal is to salvage their individual identities, cutting athletics certainly does more to hurt their identity than. Consolidating athletics could be considered but you're still risking losing more tuition dollars than the program costs to operate including alumni support.

Obviously I'm against this plan. I don't see how it helps any of the six schools. I don't see how it saves the schools. Students don't want to attend a branch campus, otherwise the Penn State outlet stores would be more successful. The program cuts hurt but will create real savings. Forcing the leadership (VPs, Deans, Presidents, Trustees) to get more creative in their strategy would be a great start. More aggressive admissions marketing would help too.

[Bart]

Edinboro president must see the writing on the wall.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202010160167

[WarriorVoice]

One of the cost savings that being highlighted is through "shared services." Why have three seporate functions when you can have one that is shared by all three. Starting to hear that about entire programs in these groupings (why should all three campuses offer Political Science degrees (for example)? You can safe $ by eliminating this degree track at all but one campus). Same goes with athletics, why have three redundant (and expensive) and competing football programs when you can focus your resources at one location? If you are looking at these campus groupings as single units, why would you pay for 3 head football coaches (and staffs) and staff, 6 head basketball head coaches (and staffs), etc? When you are shaking the seat cusions for lose change, how can you justify paying for 6 head basketball coaches when you can get by with 2??

Back in the day, schools offered different degree programs. I remember ESU having the best computer science program in the entire system. You went to West Chester if you wanted to study music. It seems that schools will go back to specializing in certain programs of study... ESU ended their music degree program a few years ago. There were something like 8 students in that major at the time. Expect more moves like that...

[ironmaniup]

Presidents make well under market in PASSHE. Most are in the $250k range. So let's say their total compensation is $400k. These schools aren't going to sell off the president's residence - at Cal its an apartment. Somebody also needs to be in charge on the local level. It's also going to cost more for Dale Pehrsson to cover all that territory from Clarion. I don't see much savings. That's an unusual strain on VPs or Deans or Department Chairs who have to cover those three schools, supervise departments at those schools, etc.

I don't see any advantage to a consolidated name (or much of this at all). Changing the name to WPSU-Clarion or UWP-Clarion doesn't amplify anything in the same way creating PASSHE didn't amplify anything. If the goal is to salvage their individual identities, cutting athletics certainly does more to hurt their identity than. Consolidating athletics could be considered but you're still risking losing more tuition dollars than the program costs to operate including alumni support.

Obviously I'm against this plan. I don't see how it helps any of the six schools. I don't see how it saves the schools. Students don't want to attend a branch campus, otherwise the Penn State outlet stores would be more successful. The program cuts hurt but will create real savings. Forcing the leadership (VPs, Deans, Presidents, Trustees) to get more creative in their strategy would be a great start. More aggressive admissions marketing would help too.

Cuts are starting to come out, there will be more detail in 2 weeks. The idea is to cut low enrollment programs to the bone. The thing is some low enrollment programs are essential to an accredited university - Physics and Philosophy for instance. The mergers allow alot more programs to be cut, and still have a viable university. I tend to agree that the merger is not a great idea, and expect it is more sort of a thunderdome for these schools. It will be interesting how they will deal with things like endowments. How will it effect donors ? will anyone want to donate to the merged university ?

[Fightingscot82]

Edinboro president must see the writing on the wall.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202010160167

He won't have a job in 2 years.

[Fightingscot82]

Cuts are starting to come out, there will be more detail in 2 weeks. The idea is to cut low enrollment programs to the bone. The thing is some low enrollment programs are essential to an accredited university - Physics and Philosophy for instance. The mergers allow alot more programs to be cut, and still have a viable university. I tend to agree that the merger is not a great idea, and expect it is more sort of a thunderdome for these schools. It will be interesting how they will deal with things like endowments. How will it effect donors ? will anyone want to donate to the merged university ?

Faculty often pass rumors that accreditation requires certain majors or departments. Sometimes it's they can't keep university status. Simply not true.

You can keep essential courses from a department without having a full blown department or a degree program.

Kudos on the Thunderdome reference.

[ironmaniup]

Faculty often pass rumors that accreditation requires certain majors or departments. Sometimes it's they can't keep university status. Simply not true.

You can keep essential courses from a department without having a full blown department or a degree program.

Kudos on the Thunderdome reference.

I've been involved in a number of accreditation processes, and while it may be true that you don't need a named department to pass accreditation requirements, it is nearly impossible to hire, for example, Physics faculty with the credentials and abilities you need to have your programs accredited if there is not a departmen, and only a couple other physics profst. Keep in mind there is general accreditation like mid-states, and then there is program accreditation which are also important and often focuses on faculty credentials. Then there is the view of students, who see fewer majors, who aren't recruited in the same way. The mergers get around this, but at a pretty high cost.

[boatcapt]

Cuts are starting to come out, there will be more detail in 2 weeks. The idea is to cut low enrollment programs to the bone. The thing is some low enrollment programs are essential to an accredited university - Physics and Philosophy for instance. The mergers allow alot more programs to be cut, and still have a viable university. I tend to agree that the merger is not a great idea, and expect it is more sort of a thunderdome for these schools. It will be interesting how they will deal with things like endowments. How will it effect donors ? will anyone want to donate to the merged university ?

One of the things mentioned is a single accreditation for these university groupings so if a particular degree track is required for the school to receive accreditation, they would only need to offer it at one campus.

[boatcapt]

Back in the day, schools offered different degree programs. I remember ESU having the best computer science program in the entire system. You went to West Chester if you wanted to study music. It seems that schools will go back to specializing in certain programs of study... ESU ended their music degree program a few years ago. There were something like 8 students in that major at the time. Expect more moves like that...

I expect the same...Each of the remaining PASSHE schools offering general education and then beyond that offering majors in particular areas. For example, one of the existing PASSHE schools becoming the "School of Health Care"...One being the "School of Business Studies"...etc.

[iupgroundhog]

I've been involved in a number of accreditation processes, and while it may be true that you don't need a named department to pass accreditation requirements, it is nearly impossible to hire, for example, Physics faculty with the credentials and abilities you need to have your programs accredited if there is not a departmen, and only a couple other physics profst. Keep in mind there is general accreditation like mid-states, and then there is program accreditation which are also important and often focuses on faculty credentials. Then there is the view of students, who see fewer majors, who aren't recruited in the same way. The mergers get around this, but at a pretty high cost.

What's the alternative?

[Fightingscot82]

I've been involved in a number of accreditation processes, and while it may be true that you don't need a named department to pass accreditation requirements, it is nearly impossible to hire, for example, Physics faculty with the credentials and abilities you need to have your programs accredited if there is not a departmen, and only a couple other physics profst. Keep in mind there is general accreditation like mid-states, and then there is program accreditation which are also important and often focuses on faculty credentials. Then there is the view of students, who see fewer majors, who aren't recruited in the same way. The mergers get around this, but at a pretty high cost.

Good points. I wasn't thinking program accreditation as much as Middle States.

I think on the academic sides of all PASSHE schools, there needs to be a reckoning. These schools can't support research beyond what is required for rank promotion. The students sure don't. These are teaching universities and always have been. Be the best version of yourself, not a low grade imitation of something else. Attract faculty who value teaching and sell that to students.

[iupgroundhog]

Good points. I wasn't thinking program accreditation as much as Middle States.

I think on the academic sides of all PASSHE schools, there needs to be a reckoning. These schools can't support research beyond what is required for rank promotion. The students sure don't. These are teaching universities and always have been. Be the best version of yourself, not a low grade imitation of something else. Attract faculty who value teaching and sell that to students.

IUP positions itself somewhere in the middle - or in both worlds. Low grade imitation? Perhaps.

However, this doesn't apply to IUP in the same way. IUP has a lot of students involved in research. Plus, the graduate school is keeping IUP afloat.