PASSHE Institutions Merging

[iupgroundhog]

At what point does all this uncertainty with PASSHE and news of schools being insolvent and financially unstable poison the well and make students go to other schools?

To a large extent, the major news stations don't seem to be picking this up. It seems mainly the small local papers and Universities run the stories on this stuff. The Faculty Union is launching a whole campaign about how retrenchment will mean lower quality for students. And they may be right. But, is all this bad press going to just mean less students?

APSCUF discusses retrenchment at town hall -
APSCUF President explains faculty layoffs happening at PASSHE universities
http://www.theonlinerocket.com/news/...-at-town-hall/

And of course students and faculty will not want to see faculty lose their jobs. But, the finances are so bad that schools may go out of business. This isn't a situation where doing nothing makes it better. Heck, even making these changes might not fix it. It might be too late. We may just need less schools.

Greenstein is being careful to present a limited, short-term plan although the long term results are existential for some of the schools and the system itself.

I think he needs to present a realistic medium-term plan before this all blows up in our collective faces, we go back to square one and Greenstein decides to bolt.

Face it, the Bloomfield Haven plan results in a weakened LHU and a virtually non-existent Mansfield. That's the inevitability of his plan. He needs to put that out there if Mansfield and LH are destined to become branches of Bloomsburg. People need to see where it's going. Clearly, there are too many special interests with 14 university communities, all with a variety of constituencies.

As for the western PA schools, I think he needs to present it as a western PA plan. The inevitability there is you end up with 2 or 3 schools with satellite branches. He needs to present that plan (which is more drastic) rather than beat around the bush as he is now.

These 2 ultimate plans leave the satellite schools in place, albeit reduced, and allow them to die their slow deaths in whatever shape that takes.

I understand Greenstein is a take-charge guy with unparalleled experience but all the competing interests threaten to derail any needed progress.

[Fightingscot82]

Greenstein is being careful to present a limited, short-term plan although the long term results are existential for some of the schools and the system itself.

I think he needs to present a realistic medium-term plan before this all blows up in our collective faces, we go back to square one and Greenstein decides to bolt.

Face it, the Bloomfield Haven plan results in a weakened LHU and a virtually non-existent Mansfield. That's the inevitability of his plan. He needs to put that out there if Mansfield and LH are destined to become branches of Bloomsburg. People need to see where it's going. Clearly, there are too many special interests with 14 university communities, all with a variety of constituencies.

As for the western PA schools, I think he needs to present it as a western PA plan. The inevitability there is you end up with 2 or 3 schools with satellite branches. He needs to present that plan (which is more drastic) rather than beat around the bush as he is now.

These 2 ultimate plans leave the satellite schools in place, albeit reduced, and allow them to die their slow deaths in whatever shape that takes.

I understand Greenstein is a take-charge guy with unparalleled experience but all the competing interests threaten to derail any needed progress.

Since a plan hasn't yet been developed, I think its premature to declare it as a negative. We don't know what the "integration" will look like and its entirely possible that they each look different. It's also possible that the public will reject the model. Tuition paying students tend to vote with their feet. Will students in that region instead choose an independent PASSHE school or one of the Penn State outlet stores? I imagine Lou Barletta will help pay for students to attend PSU Hazleton as long as they're white.

[ironmaniup]

Since a plan hasn't yet been developed, I think its premature to declare it as a negative. We don't know what the "integration" will look like and its entirely possible that they each look different. It's also possible that the public will reject the model. Tuition paying students tend to vote with their feet. Will students in that region instead choose an independent PASSHE school or one of the Penn State outlet stores? I imagine Lou Barletta will help pay for students to attend PSU Hazleton as long as they're white.

The BIg unknown in all of this is knowing what the students will do. Schools are less attractive if there is no stability, and if the morale of the place is bad. There should be a bump next fall as Covid clears, and the students that put off college return. But where will they go ? to schools where they will be on-line half the time ? I doubt it, that's what they wanted to avoid in the first place. The state system used the small classes taught by faculty who give you personal attention as a recruiting pitch, that doesn't work if half of your profs are 100 miles away, on Zoom. I think some of the schools are headed for community college status. There is no plan to save the 14 institutions, its just a 3 years and see where we are kind of thing.

[Fightingscot82]

At what point does all this uncertainty with PASSHE and news of schools being insolvent and financially unstable poison the well and make students go to other schools?

To a large extent, the major news stations don't seem to be picking this up. It seems mainly the small local papers and Universities run the stories on this stuff. The Faculty Union is launching a whole campaign about how retrenchment will mean lower quality for students. And they may be right. But, is all this bad press going to just mean less students?

APSCUF discusses retrenchment at town hall -
APSCUF President explains faculty layoffs happening at PASSHE universities
http://www.theonlinerocket.com/news/...-at-town-hall/

And of course students and faculty will not want to see faculty lose their jobs. But, the finances are so bad that schools may go out of business. This isn't a situation where doing nothing makes it better. Heck, even making these changes might not fix it. It might be too late. We may just need less schools.

News stations don't cover the complex PASSHE news because its hard to explain in a 30-second snippet or a 90-second report. The Pittsburgh Post Gazette (for now) has a full-time higher ed reporter whose daughter attends a PASSHE school. He's the bane of a PR office's existence but he knows what he's writing about.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202010080115

[Bart]

Since a plan hasn't yet been developed, I think its premature to declare it as a negative. We don't know what the "integration" will look like and its entirely possible that they each look different. It's also possible that the public will reject the model. Tuition paying students tend to vote with their feet. Will students in that region instead choose an independent PASSHE school or one of the Penn State outlet stores? I imagine Lou Barletta will help pay for students to attend PSU Hazleton as long as they're white.

Rumor is Lou might run for governor. He is a PASSHE graduate.

[boatcapt]

"If the pattern does not change, PASSHE could see Lock Haven and Shippensburg Universities become insolvent and Bloomsburg, East Stroudsburg and Millersville Universities become financially unstable."

http://www.theonlinerocket.com/news/...-goes-virtual/

WOW! A lot to unpack in that one short sentance. One would presume that 2020-21 is not going to be one that changes the "pattern" (declining enrollment) so the inclusion of LHU and Ship on the insolvent list seems a very real possibility if not an outright certainty. That would mean 6 of the 13 PASSHE schools will have effectively failed and will be drawing off resources from the two stable schools, WCU and SRU, to stay afloat.

[iupgroundhog]

Rumor is Lou might run for governor. He is a PASSHE graduate.

His position on PASSHE could be "Stay in Philly!"

[iupgroundhog]

Since a plan hasn't yet been developed, I think its premature to declare it as a negative. We don't know what the "integration" will look like and its entirely possible that they each look different. It's also possible that the public will reject the model. Tuition paying students tend to vote with their feet. Will students in that region instead choose an independent PASSHE school or one of the Penn State outlet stores? I imagine Lou Barletta will help pay for students to attend PSU Hazleton as long as they're white.

Seems like a plan to me. No roadmap yet. Just some guy at the filling station telling us to take a left at the 2nd light. You can't miss it.

[Bart]

His position on PASSHE could be "Stay in Philly!"

Lou was the mayor of Hazleton before heading to Washington. Hazleton has a population of roughly 25,000 with 10,000 Hispanics. He has grandchildren who are non-white. Why bash him?

[IUPNation]

SRU isn't on the news in a negative light every other week, either. IUP has had a lot of violent, well-publicised crimes over the past several years. That adds up.

Now, I'm not saying crime doesn't happen everywhere, but IUP sure gets a lot of bad press from it everytime.

SRU is doing well. It added majors young kids actually want. Their Dukes of Hazard police force keeps things hush-hush.

IUP has an image problem in Western PA. IUP people don't like to admit it but most non-IUP peoole think this is a frat-run, 24-hour party. That image was appealing in the late 80s and 90s. It isn't any longer.

IUP also has a tremendously fast growing reputation of being in a racist town. Only half of African American students who come as freshmen return as sophomores. The Penn ran a very eye-opening article on this very topic. Comments on this topic among students in the Twitter world are rampant - and alarming. Two former (prominent) IUP football players discussed the topic -- including the very well-spoken and intelligent Walt Pegues.

I don't overly buy the old buildings theory. That campus is near pristine right now. When IUP thrived in the 80s and 90s the campus was full of run-down buildings and crappy dorms.

It's an image thing more than anything else. A re-branding and a fresh, massive marketing campaign would go a long way. Recruiting needs a huge overhaul.

The school should be easy to sell -- especially compared to other PASSHE schools. Yet, ... it's not right now.

IUP doesn't have any more crime than West Chester does. It's not keeping kids out of The WC for school. IF crime was a deterrent, nobody would go to Temple.

I think your point that Slimey has majors students are looking for is probably more spot on. However they don't seem to know that a Slimey degree is useless...but whatever.

Indiana has always had it's share of bigots. It's not like it was a bastion of liberalism when I was there but I'm sure there are plenty of bigots over in Slimey Pebble too. I mean the people of Butler County keep sending vile Daryl Metcalfe back to Harrisburg and he is a raging bigot. I doubt you'll find a whole lot of liberalism in any PSAC town not named West Chester. So..yeah Indiana is in Trumplandia but then again so is most every other school as well.

When I was at IUP, it seemed like most everyone was either a business major or an education major. I'm going to guess the businessn college is still holding it's own student wise but that there has been a large drop off a education majors. IUP needs to find something new to be a destination school for...and maybe the new science and math building will be a part of that.

You are right, that campus has never looked so good. It's nicer than WVU's crappy looking trailer park of a campus....at least that is what is looks like on Google Maps street view...

[IUPNation]

I don't think the Fairness Doctrine ever applied to newspapers such as the NYT and WAPO.

How can you tell when CNN and MSNBC are lying? Their "reporters" lips are moving!!

You keep drinking the Kool Aid on Fox News. It just tells you what you want to hear...

[IUPNation]

How would that have happened? I feel like enrollment was pretty steady for everyone until the 2000s when everyone surged.

1970's and 80's when IUP was twice as large as everyone else...and when West Chester was still below 10000 students.

It just always feels like IUP gets the short end of the stick from Harrisburg.

[IUPNation]

Rumor is Lou might run for governor. He is a PASSHE graduate.

The 2022 PA Gubner race is going to be a total **** show now that Dickhead Toomey isn't running for any office once his senate term is up and Wolf is term limited. The campaign for his senate seat with be a **** show too.

[CALUPA69]

The 2022 PA Gubner race is going to be a total **** show now that Dickhead Toomey isn't running for any office once his senate term is up and Wolf is term limited. The campaign for his senate seat with be a **** show too.

Any possibility WOLF runs for senate seat?

[iupgroundhog]

Lou was the mayor of Hazleton before heading to Washington. Hazleton has a population of roughly 25,000 with 10,000 Hispanics. He has grandchildren who are non-white. Why bash him?

I'm going to take that as sarcasm.