PASSHE Institutions Merging

[IUPNation]

Blood in the water. That's about 80 dudes entering the portal tomorrow.

Unfortunate but that's the reality.

The campus build ups to appease Millennials in the 00’s is everyone’s undoing.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

The campus build ups to appease Millennials in the 00’s is everyone’s undoing.

IUP sure has some fancy new 'dorms' ... being used only by bugs.

[ironmaniup]

IUP sure has some fancy new 'dorms' ... being used only by bugs.

In the end, the leadership in Harrisburg is to blame, Local leadership was stuck worrying about if one or another university would gain an advantage by building better dorms, and dining options. The demographics were clear by 2008, and PASSHE should have started downsizing workforce and facillities and preparing for that. But instead they downsized the state budget, defered maintenance, made the universities more independent, and pushed competition as a way to make universities "better". We were going to "grow". to save money they outsourced everything, as a cost savings, but really just made a windfall for certain big corporate service companies who got sweetheart deals, with guarantees of revenue, no doubt in exchange for some political donations. The universities were stuck in bad deals, plummeting enrollment by 2012 - and Harrisburg blaming everything except demographics and themselves.


Now suddenly independence is bad, most of the universities are way over extended, and Harrisburg is going to use the 14 PASSHE schools to extend the community college system. In 10 years, there may be 2 to 4 of the 14 left, and the rest will be transitioned to community colleges. Its very sad, because it didn't have to be that way.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

In the end, the leadership in Harrisburg is to blame, Local leadership was stuck worrying about if one or another university would gain an advantage by building better dorms, and dining options. The demographics were clear by 2008, and PASSHE should have started downsizing workforce and facillities and preparing for that. But instead they downsized the state budget, defered maintenance, made the universities more independent, and pushed competition as a way to make universities "better". We were going to "grow". to save money they outsourced everything, as a cost savings, but really just made a windfall for certain big corporate service companies who got sweetheart deals, with guarantees of revenue, no doubt in exchange for some political donations. The universities were stuck in bad deals, plummeting enrollment by 2012 - and Harrisburg blaming everything except demographics and themselves.


Now suddenly independence is bad, most of the universities are way over extended, and Harrisburg is going to use the 14 PASSHE schools to extend the community college system. In 10 years, there may be 2 to 4 of the 14 left, and the rest will be transitioned to community colleges. Its very sad, because it didn't have to be that way.

It sure makes one wonder about the mega millions some of these schools are dumping in to athletic facilities (mainly basketball gyms) -- especially when many forecast they won't be around (in this capacity) in 5-10 years. I beleive SRU is starting a major (much needed) renovation of Morrow Fieldhouse this summer. Edinboro is on tap shortly after.

Clarion now has (my opinion) a Top 3 basketball facility in our league. I don't even know how they are paying the heating bill up there the way things are going. Then, of course, there is the ultimate shrine to the lunacy of this past era down in California (the Angelo Dome).

[Ship69]

In the end, the leadership in Harrisburg is to blame, Local leadership was stuck worrying about if one or another university would gain an advantage by building better dorms, and dining options. The demographics were clear by 2008, and PASSHE should have started downsizing workforce and facillities and preparing for that. But instead they downsized the state budget, defered maintenance, made the universities more independent, and pushed competition as a way to make universities "better". We were going to "grow". to save money they outsourced everything, as a cost savings, but really just made a windfall for certain big corporate service companies who got sweetheart deals, with guarantees of revenue, no doubt in exchange for some political donations. The universities were stuck in bad deals, plummeting enrollment by 2012 - and Harrisburg blaming everything except demographics and themselves.


Now suddenly independence is bad, most of the universities are way over extended, and Harrisburg is going to use the 14 PASSHE schools to extend the community college system. In 10 years, there may be 2 to 4 of the 14 left, and the rest will be transitioned to community colleges. Its very sad, because it didn't have to be that way.

I believe not all the schools will survive, but I think 2 to 4 around in 10 years is a little pessimistic. If you eventually close 4-5 of the schools, the students who would go there are going to go elsewhere, and the best landing spot for them would often be one of the other PASSHE schools. And PASSHE schools aren't the only ones in financial peril. I doubt that every one of our small private liberal arts schools in Pa. and the Northeast are financially robust.

[Fightingscot82]

In the end, the leadership in Harrisburg is to blame, Local leadership was stuck worrying about if one or another university would gain an advantage by building better dorms, and dining options. The demographics were clear by 2008, and PASSHE should have started downsizing workforce and facillities and preparing for that. But instead they downsized the state budget, defered maintenance, made the universities more independent, and pushed competition as a way to make universities "better". We were going to "grow". to save money they outsourced everything, as a cost savings, but really just made a windfall for certain big corporate service companies who got sweetheart deals, with guarantees of revenue, no doubt in exchange for some political donations. The universities were stuck in bad deals, plummeting enrollment by 2012 - and Harrisburg blaming everything except demographics and themselves.


Now suddenly independence is bad, most of the universities are way over extended, and Harrisburg is going to use the 14 PASSHE schools to extend the community college system. In 10 years, there may be 2 to 4 of the 14 left, and the rest will be transitioned to community colleges. Its very sad, because it didn't have to be that way.

YES. Everyone thought they could grow and sustain the demographic peak of 2010. Everyone. And nobody at the state level called BS. Like Homer Simpson supervising at the nuclear power plant.

All the Boomers thought shiny new buildings and everyone getting their own bedroom was the solution. Cost didn't matter because until then students just borrowed their way to the college experience of their dreams. Then the recession happened and the mortgage bubble burst. Those kids who grew up through that realized the price and debt with college was stupid and started openly questioning costs. Near unanimous votes for fee increases by students came to an end. They still want all those amenities like its a Disney Grand Indianan Resort but they still want the Clarion State College price.

The other big issue is that most of the struggling schools never adapted their degree programs to the evolving demand. The reasons Slippery Rock and to lesser degrees IUP, Shippensburg, Lock Haven, and Kutztown are stable is because they have many of the job-ready degree programs students now want. The applied science, tech, health,, pre-professional, etc. A quick Google search will show schools across the country and of all shapes and sizes are cutting traditional liberal arts degree programs. Students no longer choose majors based on their favorite high school class. They choose a job that is attractive then backtrack to identify degree programs that lead to the specific job.

[ironmaniup]

I believe not all the schools will survive, but I think 2 to 4 around in 10 years is a little pessimistic. If you eventually close 4-5 of the schools, the students who would go there are going to go elsewhere, and the best landing spot for them would often be one of the other PASSHE schools. And PASSHE schools aren't the only ones in financial peril. I doubt that every one of our small private liberal arts schools in Pa. and the Northeast are financially robust.

I might be pessimistic, But things are pretty bad. I agree There will be some small privates close too.

There will probably still be institutions named the same name as the current PASSHE schools, but the governor is moving to lump the universities in with community colleges, and get rid of alot of the local leadership. At some point this will cause any outside support to dry up - donors want a say in the management of schools they donate too. Things like Sports scholarship money goes away completely then, and any unique nature of the school disappears, no traditional college experience, or sense of identity. What the governor is doing is smart in a way, he's shifting the revenue generating classes to the community colleges to make them much more efficient, with the less expensive faculty - essentially breaking the Union without saying that you did. If the Universities can run good majors programs independently without a loss, they will remain, but most probably won't be able to - it will be a survival of the fittest scenario. BTW WCU has done this already with adjuncts, and CC feeder schools. Then the Union went on strike over Adjunct use and pay, and won. So that is part of what drove this.

and so I'd guess there will be still be for instance a Penn West, but it will be on the same order as Allegheny County CC. The number of Majors at the weaker schools will be reduced as well. Some students will go to the remaining Passhe schools, but the PSU branches will get alot of them as well. As will the Pitt Branches. I'd bet we end up with WCU in the east, Rock in the west. Bloom and maybe a Ship/millersville merger. IUP will have to get its act together to stay out of becoming part of Penn West - I'd say its 50/50 right now.

[boatcapt]

It sure makes one wonder about the mega millions some of these schools are dumping in to athletic facilities (mainly basketball gyms) -- especially when many forecast they won't be around (in this capacity) in 5-10 years. I beleive SRU is starting a major (much needed) renovation of Morrow Fieldhouse this summer. Edinboro is on tap shortly after.

Clarion now has (my opinion) a Top 3 basketball facility in our league. I don't even know how they are paying the heating bill up there the way things are going. Then, of course, there is the ultimate shrine to the lunacy of this past era down in California (the Angelo Dome).

We used to say in the military that you could tell when a base was going to be closed by the amount of $'s the DoD pumped in to new buildings/renovations. Just got a shinny new base HQ building?? Oh yea, going to close this b!tch in the next three years!!

[IUPbigINDIANS]

We used to say in the military that you could tell when a base was going to be closed by the amount of $'s the DoD pumped in to new buildings/renovations. Just got a shinny new base HQ building?? Oh yea, going to close this b!tch in the next three years!!

Makes sense lol

[iupgroundhog]

In the end, the leadership in Harrisburg is to blame, Local leadership was stuck worrying about if one or another university would gain an advantage by building better dorms, and dining options. The demographics were clear by 2008, and PASSHE should have started downsizing workforce and facillities and preparing for that. But instead they downsized the state budget, defered maintenance, made the universities more independent, and pushed competition as a way to make universities "better". We were going to "grow". to save money they outsourced everything, as a cost savings, but really just made a windfall for certain big corporate service companies who got sweetheart deals, with guarantees of revenue, no doubt in exchange for some political donations. The universities were stuck in bad deals, plummeting enrollment by 2012 - and Harrisburg blaming everything except demographics and themselves.


Now suddenly independence is bad, most of the universities are way over extended, and Harrisburg is going to use the 14 PASSHE schools to extend the community college system. In 10 years, there may be 2 to 4 of the 14 left, and the rest will be transitioned to community colleges. Its very sad, because it didn't have to be that way.

This is a great conversation. Unfortunate topic, but a lot of informed and insightful perspective.

Regarding the building frenzy, I see that as a by-product of the political climate of the state ("Harrisburg", if you will).

While funding for the academics of the state schools continued to slide into the abyss and was not valued in Harrisburg, the "capital improvements" were possible, as I understand it and recall, because funding for all of that was administered outside of the budgetary process. Furthermore, it was driven by private sector interests, i.e. the construction industry. And it "created jobs", so to speak. Of course, that was all shortsighted.

As somewhat of a justification, yes, there was competition between PASSHE members to have superior amenities - however - it was a national trend and it seems everybody got it wrong, except for those who profited from it.

[Ship69]

I might be pessimistic, But things are pretty bad. I agree There will be some small privates close too.

There will probably still be institutions named the same name as the current PASSHE schools, but the governor is moving to lump the universities in with community colleges, and get rid of alot of the local leadership. At some point this will cause any outside support to dry up - donors want a say in the management of schools they donate too. Things like Sports scholarship money goes away completely then, and any unique nature of the school disappears, no traditional college experience, or sense of identity. What the governor is doing is smart in a way, he's shifting the revenue generating classes to the community colleges to make them much more efficient, with the less expensive faculty - essentially breaking the Union without saying that you did. If the Universities can run good majors programs independently without a loss, they will remain, but most probably won't be able to - it will be a survival of the fittest scenario. BTW WCU has done this already with adjuncts, and CC feeder schools. Then the Union went on strike over Adjunct use and pay, and won. So that is part of what drove this.

and so I'd guess there will be still be for instance a Penn West, but it will be on the same order as Allegheny County CC. The number of Majors at the weaker schools will be reduced as well. Some students will go to the remaining Passhe schools, but the PSU branches will get alot of them as well. As will the Pitt Branches. I'd bet we end up with WCU in the east, Rock in the west. Bloom and maybe a Ship/millersville merger. IUP will have to get its act together to stay out of becoming part of Penn West - I'd say its 50/50 right now.

The governor has said that they won't be getting rid of local leadership at the community colleges. I don't think enough of his actual plan is out there to make a final determination. As PASSHE continues to hold the line on tuition, the schools begin to look more and more attractive. More funding from the state would obviously help. If state support for PASSHE dips much lower as a percentage, you might as well give them a "state-related" tag along with Penn State, Pitt, etc. With its outsized influence in Harrisburg, Penn State has succeeded in undermining PASSHE to a great extent with the branch campus system. Our president at Ship has remarked how decentralized the system in Pa. seems compared to the one he worked with in Georgia.

As far as a Ship-Millersvllle merger, I think things would have to get much worse before either school would consider that.

And I'm probably spitting into the wind, but if we've come to the point where college is considered a glorified vo-tech school, we've lost much of the purpose of a college education.

[boatcapt]

Makes sense lol

BRAC (Base closures) was a DIFFICULT time in the military and in military communities across the nation but it had to be done. As the saying goes, the military had "excess capacity" and needed to be downsized. Same thing is playing out across most states now with regard to colleges and universities. Excess capacity to needs...difference is that quite a few states are refusing to bite the bullet and right size their public university system instead trying to find ways to keep everything open. At the end of the day states have to ask a fundamental question, is it better to have 4, 5 or 6 schools that are strong and relatively self sustaining or is it better to have 12, 13 or 14 colleges that stumble along and are constantly in financial peril?

[Ram040506]

YES. Everyone thought they could grow and sustain the demographic peak of 2010. Everyone. And nobody at the state level called BS. Like Homer Simpson supervising at the nuclear power plant.

All the Boomers thought shiny new buildings and everyone getting their own bedroom was the solution. Cost didn't matter because until then students just borrowed their way to the college experience of their dreams. Then the recession happened and the mortgage bubble burst. Those kids who grew up through that realized the price and debt with college was stupid and started openly questioning costs. Near unanimous votes for fee increases by students came to an end. They still want all those amenities like its a Disney Grand Indianan Resort but they still want the Clarion State College price.

The other big issue is that most of the struggling schools never adapted their degree programs to the evolving demand. The reasons Slippery Rock and to lesser degrees IUP, Shippensburg, Lock Haven, and Kutztown are stable is because they have many of the job-ready degree programs students now want. The applied science, tech, health,, pre-professional, etc. A quick Google search will show schools across the country and of all shapes and sizes are cutting traditional liberal arts degree programs. Students no longer choose majors based on their favorite high school class. They choose a job that is attractive then backtrack to identify degree programs that lead to the specific job.

Just want to emphasize the bold. That's all.

[Fightingscot82]

The governor has said that they won't be getting rid of local leadership at the community colleges. I don't think enough of his actual plan is out there to make a final determination. As PASSHE continues to hold the line on tuition, the schools begin to look more and more attractive. More funding from the state would obviously help. If state support for PASSHE dips much lower as a percentage, you might as well give them a "state-related" tag along with Penn State, Pitt, etc. With its outsized influence in Harrisburg, Penn State has succeeded in undermining PASSHE to a great extent with the branch campus system. Our president at Ship has remarked how decentralized the system in Pa. seems compared to the one he worked with in Georgia.

As far as a Ship-Millersvllle merger, I think things would have to get much worse before either school would consider that.

And I'm probably spitting into the wind, but if we've come to the point where college is considered a glorified vo-tech school, we've lost much of the purpose of a college education.

All it takes is another downturn for one of the two schools to run out of reserve cash. That's what really drove the mergers. By and large, Cheyney has been absorbed by West Chester. Nearly all non-student facing functions are run by West Chester.

[boatcapt]

Just want to emphasize the bold. That's all.

I would note that the students that vote for no increases in student fees but still want the Disney Grand level amenities are not boomers, they are Generation Z which is often referred to as the entitled generation.

You want a fun exercise, interview a Gen Z for an entry level position and ask them what their minimum salary requirements are!!!! ALWAYS good for a laugh!