PASSHE Institutions Merging

[IUPNation]

A few rural counties don't even have local police, but rely exclusively on PSP for law enforcement.

The issue of "fiefdoms" really rears its ugly head in Allegheny County, where a lot of these dinky little boroughs really don't need to exist, to be honest. Not to mention relatively small and under-performing school districts (ie. Clariton City, Duquesne City, Wilkinsburg Borough - the latter two don't even have a high school anymore) which really need to be merged. Hell, Wilkinsburg as a borough should just disincorporate and be a part of the city of Pittsburgh (Pittsburgh pols can't make that place much worse than it already is).

Can you imagine if they just made Allegheny County the City Of Pittsburgh...like they did to Philadelphia back in 1854?

If they did that, Pittsburgh would jump up from the 68th largest city to be the 10th largest city in the US by population coming in just behind Dallas by 40K.

[ctrabs74]

Pennsylvania regulations give boroughs virtually no room to expand and grow. When I lived in Florida, land outside the cities was under control of county commissioners and policed by the county sheriff's department. Cities could annex land by designating an area of expansion and holding vote on the proposed expansion that included city residents and the proposed area to be annexed. It wasn't a perfect system, but probably better than the one that locks boroughs in Pa. into ancient boundaries. What often happens is borough housing grows old, industries leave, people move out, and the tax base deteriorates. A lot of those people move to surrounding townships, which have no interest in helping the boroughs and in fact almost become rivals. My borough operates a community swimming pool that is a not inconsiderable expense for a town our size. We decided to charge non-borough residents of the neighboring township a higher membership fee next year as the township contributes nothing toward the pool. Of course there were complaints over that. Township police actually have to travel through the borough to get from one side of the township to the other, but there is little police cooperation.

As you say, a lot of these small municipalities probably shouldn't even exist, but God help the person who suggests even mild reforms, let alone doing away with any of them. All this made sense in an era of travel when the horse was king, but makes little sense now. Some of the little burgs that don't have their own police even balk at paying $25 a household for PSP protection, as was proposed a couple of years back. They're perfectly content to let others subsidize their police protection. It's a situation that could use the attention of a forward-thinking legislature, which you're certainly not going to find in Pa.

I get what you're saying, though I was making a different point about Wilkinsburg. The borough already has fire protection provided by the Pittsburgh Fire Bureau (Station 18) and middle/high school students attend Pittsburgh Westinghouse High School. It's only a matter of time before Wilkinsburg becomes another Pittsburgh neighborhood instead of a separate (and borderline dysfunctional) municipality.

And, I also agree that Pennsylvania seems dead set on clinging to outdated policies which undermine how municipalities function. It's almost as if they do this on purpose.

[Ship69]

A few rural counties don't even have local police, but rely exclusively on PSP for law enforcement.

The issue of "fiefdoms" really rears its ugly head in Allegheny County, where a lot of these dinky little boroughs really don't need to exist, to be honest. Not to mention relatively small and under-performing school districts (ie. Clariton City, Duquesne City, Wilkinsburg Borough - the latter two don't even have a high school anymore) which really need to be merged. Hell, Wilkinsburg as a borough should just disincorporate and be a part of the city of Pittsburgh (Pittsburgh pols can't make that place much worse than it already is).

Pennsylvania regulations give boroughs virtually no room to expand and grow. When I lived in Florida, land outside the cities was under control of county commissioners and policed by the county sheriff's department. Cities could annex land by designating an area of expansion and holding vote on the proposed expansion that included city residents and the proposed area to be annexed. It wasn't a perfect system, but probably better than the one that locks boroughs in Pa. into ancient boundaries. What often happens is borough housing grows old, industries leave, people move out, and the tax base deteriorates. A lot of those people move to surrounding townships, which have no interest in helping the boroughs and in fact almost become rivals. My borough operates a community swimming pool that is a not inconsiderable expense for a town our size. We decided to charge non-borough residents of the neighboring township a higher membership fee next year as the township contributes nothing toward the pool. Of course there were complaints over that. Township police actually have to travel through the borough to get from one side of the township to the other, but there is little police cooperation.

As you say, a lot of these small municipalities probably shouldn't even exist, but God help the person who suggests even mild reforms, let alone doing away with any of them. All this made sense in an era of travel when the horse was king, but makes little sense now. Some of the little burgs that don't have their own police even balk at paying $25 a household for PSP protection, as was proposed a couple of years back. They're perfectly content to let others subsidize their police protection. It's a situation that could use the attention of a forward-thinking legislature, which you're certainly not going to find in Pa.

[ctrabs74]

The problem with Pennsylvania is that over half of it wants it to operate like it's still 1957.

So we have all these dinky towns with their dinky schools and dinky public works and it makes everything worse.

Too many old towns want to hold on to the past. The past is gone and they need to look to the future.

I guess some places can't keep going on and dragging out the 1962 WPIAL champion foosball team anymore to make the town proud.

There should be county school districts in the rural areas. County police and county fire.

There is so much redundancy across this Commonwealth. It costs money.

A day of reckoning has to come to various sections of PA...do you want to keep trying for 1957 or do they want to join the parts of the Commonwealth that are in 2023.

A few rural counties don't even have local police, but rely exclusively on PSP for law enforcement.

The issue of "fiefdoms" really rears its ugly head in Allegheny County, where a lot of these dinky little boroughs really don't need to exist, to be honest. Not to mention relatively small and under-performing school districts (ie. Clariton City, Duquesne City, Wilkinsburg Borough - the latter two don't even have a high school anymore) which really need to be merged. Hell, Wilkinsburg as a borough should just disincorporate and be a part of the city of Pittsburgh (Pittsburgh pols can't make that place much worse than it already is).

[IUPNation]

Part of the problem is there has been no centralized planning for public higher education, which has allowed a shadow Penn State branch system that competes in many areas with the PASSHE system. As you say, two systems. We are not a wealthy state, but neither are we the poorest in the country, and many other states manage to offer public education at lower cost than we do. Local government in Pa. is a maze of city, borough, and township fiefdoms. In my area a borough and township that should be cooperating in areas such as police and fire protection fight like cats and dogs over it.

The problem with Pennsylvania is that over half of it wants it to operate like it's still 1957.

So we have all these dinky towns with their dinky schools and dinky public works and it makes everything worse.

Too many old towns want to hold on to the past. The past is gone and they need to look to the future.

I guess some places can't keep going on and dragging out the 1962 WPIAL champion foosball team anymore to make the town proud.

There should be county school districts in the rural areas. County police and county fire.

There is so much redundancy across this Commonwealth. It costs money.

A day of reckoning has to come to various sections of PA...do you want to keep trying for 1957 or do they want to join the parts of the Commonwealth that are in 2023.

[Ship69]

A decent part of that is because PA is essentially funding two university systems designed for a state with a very different economic system. My generation and future ones are going to be tasked with figuring out how to fund a huge state government with so many legacy departments and agencies with a declining tax base and population. Back in the 60s all the state government knew was that they had a GIGANTIC population of school aged citizens looking to attend college and did everything they could to provide access, including permanent bailouts of bankrupt private universities (Pitt and Temple), allowing Penn State and Pitt to establish unnecessary branch campuses, and converting its state teacher colleges into state colleges without any sort of plan to prevent redundancy.

I actually attended a meeting last week with the chancellor. Something he's very proud of - and justifiably so - is that this period of appropriation increases in exchange for tuition freezes has prevented what would have been a 21% total price increase over the same period. This along with the state helping to bail out PennWest's construction debt debacle and providing funds to tear down unnecessary buildings on all campuses is helping PASSHE keep costs under control while also holding the line on cost to students. The privates are bottoming out on how much they can discount from their fake sticker prices and Penn State/Pitt/Temple keep increasing tuition - so the price gap between PASSHE and other options is growing again. If the general assembly passes the bill that allows PASSHE presidents to charge out of state students only 5% more for states that border PA, that's another good step in making PASSHE a great value. Yes, that sounds like I'm regurgitating talking points but that's all good stuff. We don't have the academic prestige to sell a name brand diploma or impress elitists - our selling point is price. Remember, we're Aldi, not Giant or Wegmans.

Part of the problem is there has been no centralized planning for public higher education, which has allowed a shadow Penn State branch system that competes in many areas with the PASSHE system. As you say, two systems. We are not a wealthy state, but neither are we the poorest in the country, and many other states manage to offer public education at lower cost than we do. Local government in Pa. is a maze of city, borough, and township fiefdoms. In my area a borough and township that should be cooperating in areas such as police and fire protection fight like cats and dogs over it.

[IUPNation]

A decent part of that is because PA is essentially funding two university systems designed for a state with a very different economic system. My generation and future ones are going to be tasked with figuring out how to fund a huge state government with so many legacy departments and agencies with a declining tax base and population. Back in the 60s all the state government knew was that they had a GIGANTIC population of school aged citizens looking to attend college and did everything they could to provide access, including permanent bailouts of bankrupt private universities (Pitt and Temple), allowing Penn State and Pitt to establish unnecessary branch campuses, and converting its state teacher colleges into state colleges without any sort of plan to prevent redundancy.

I actually attended a meeting last week with the chancellor. Something he's very proud of - and justifiably so - is that this period of appropriation increases in exchange for tuition freezes has prevented what would have been a 21% total price increase over the same period. This along with the state helping to bail out PennWest's construction debt debacle and providing funds to tear down unnecessary buildings on all campuses is helping PASSHE keep costs under control while also holding the line on cost to students. The privates are bottoming out on how much they can discount from their fake sticker prices and Penn State/Pitt/Temple keep increasing tuition - so the price gap between PASSHE and other options is growing again. If the general assembly passes the bill that allows PASSHE presidents to charge out of state students only 5% more for states that border PA, that's another good step in making PASSHE a great value. Yes, that sounds like I'm regurgitating talking points but that's all good stuff. We don't have the academic prestige to sell a name brand diploma or impress elitists - our selling point is price. Remember, we're Aldi, not Giant or Wegmans.

I’ve been around enough Centre County Community College graduates to know it’s not all that…

[Fightingscot82]

Something else I've found in the coverage of yesterday's system enrollment report is that PennWest's full-time equivalency enrollment (FTE) which basically combines part-time students into full timers for revenue tracking purposes, was 3% higher than they had budgeted for. Strange that they recognize their enrollment struggles so much that they budgeted for another significant enrollment loss.

[Fightingscot82]

Pennsylvania support for public higher education ranks relatively low nationally, which is one reason we have some of the higher public tuitions in the country.

A decent part of that is because PA is essentially funding two university systems designed for a state with a very different economic system. My generation and future ones are going to be tasked with figuring out how to fund a huge state government with so many legacy departments and agencies with a declining tax base and population. Back in the 60s all the state government knew was that they had a GIGANTIC population of school aged citizens looking to attend college and did everything they could to provide access, including permanent bailouts of bankrupt private universities (Pitt and Temple), allowing Penn State and Pitt to establish unnecessary branch campuses, and converting its state teacher colleges into state colleges without any sort of plan to prevent redundancy.

I actually attended a meeting last week with the chancellor. Something he's very proud of - and justifiably so - is that this period of appropriation increases in exchange for tuition freezes has prevented what would have been a 21% total price increase over the same period. This along with the state helping to bail out PennWest's construction debt debacle and providing funds to tear down unnecessary buildings on all campuses is helping PASSHE keep costs under control while also holding the line on cost to students. The privates are bottoming out on how much they can discount from their fake sticker prices and Penn State/Pitt/Temple keep increasing tuition - so the price gap between PASSHE and other options is growing again. If the general assembly passes the bill that allows PASSHE presidents to charge out of state students only 5% more for states that border PA, that's another good step in making PASSHE a great value. Yes, that sounds like I'm regurgitating talking points but that's all good stuff. We don't have the academic prestige to sell a name brand diploma or impress elitists - our selling point is price. Remember, we're Aldi, not Giant or Wegmans.

[ironmaniup]

From a 2019 article:



So the worse is yet to come.

Yes. The groundwork has been laid to be able to close schools without really closing schools. That was clearly the purpose of combining Universities. The combined schools won't close, but the satellites will, and now they can say they still have classes for students. next step is to cut majors at certain universities. Current negotiations regarding retrenchment in the combined schools will be a big issue.

[Ship69]

PA taxpayers who fund the jobs program.

Pennsylvania support for public higher education ranks relatively low nationally, which is one reason we have some of the higher public tuitions in the country.

[Fightingscot82]

As someone who makes a living off of other peoples taxes, thanks for the job.

Mine too! As I tell kids, there are some good salaries but nobody is getting rich here. All our salaries are public. Go look it up. You won't be impressed. The only ones upset are those making less.

[IUPNation]

As someone who makes a living off of other peoples taxes, thanks for the job.

All of our jobs are living off everyone else’s income!

[Fightingscot82]

It interesting that Walk On U is down overall despite welcoming their largest freshman class in history.

Where did they lose?

IUP had the largest increase in numbers but East Dennyburg had a higher increase percentage.

IUP is coming back...just not on the foosball field.

Retention, Retention, Retention. Kids that leave, quit, and transfer. West Chester is the backup school for its region, and that's awesome, but the downside is some of those kids work to transfer to that #1 or #2 target. Probably UD, Drexel, and Villanova.

[Bart]

PA taxpayers who fund the jobs program.

As someone who makes a living off of other peoples taxes, thanks for the job.